ElQuesoBandito

Hey guys, I found a disassembled 88 Firebird that i wanted to rebuild and i want some . My Dad doesn't want to let me do it because neither of us have any experience with cars, he's concerned that we won't have all the right tools, and that the brakes won't work. Could you guys help me convince him? The car in question: http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/3416845580.html or http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/3412642197.html

blue birdy 87

Do you want to rebuild a car, or do you just want a cheap cool car? My guess would be, you can find another car for $1000 and it would cost more then $700 to get that $300 car to the other cars condition.

From the look of the engine block, it looks like it will need a full rebuild or a new one.

What tools do you have?

ElQuesoBandito

Well I figured it would be a good learning experience and I wanted to keep it pretty cheap, function over form. We have wrenches, screwdrivers, and pliers, mostly woodworking stuff.

LHernandezJr

That car is not a project. It's a nightmare.
I'd keep looking.

ElQuesoBandito

Would buying it for the body and then fixing it with good parts be a better option?

DeltaElite121

CHEAP is nowhere in that equation. Thats what we are trying to tell you. Don't go buying a car to learn on if you don't have deep pockets because its going to most likely eat a hole in your wallet.. And thats a severe understatement, heh.

blue birdy 87

I think it would be a great project to do, but I completely agree with what dei ncludlta said. I think youll get into it,like it, and end up running out of money. Ive done it once or twice myself with smaller projects than that.

If your seriously interested in it, budget it out. Add up every fluid youd need, part youd have to replace, ect. Just to see how much you need till its a daily driver.

TreeFiddy

This does not look like a beginners project. Bet it's been ripped up with no regard for putting it back together again - eg wiring cut, things not labelled, fasteners not retained and labelled etc etc. No telling if all the bits are even there.

Find a complete car that runs, but needs some tlc. Get into basic tune-up stuff first to learn the basic, before going anywhere near a mess like that.

fervernt

Ive got some experience with engine work, not a lot but enough to no how to do this kinda stuff. This would be a hellish project at best. I would keep shopping. If you are really looking for a good project/learning experience, find a bird with a siezed engine or something for a few hundred. Drop another 300 into a good block, reseal it, and drop it in. Still gunna take some money to fix but at least you can start out right(labeling everything, keeping it all organized.) With this car you posted, you don't even know if all the parts are there. Btw I'm saying the whole bit about getting one with a siezed engine because that's what I did with my first firebird. $400.for the car, 600-800 for parts, engine, etc. And except regular maintenance, I never had to touch it again. Daily drove it for a year before I got bored and sold it.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

That would be about the same amount of work as he's looking at with this one. Except he'll have more parts.
1. Straight body
2. Interior appears mostly undamaged and pretty well complete. Except in pieces.
3. A good number of the fasteners would probably be replaced anyways.
4. The engine is JUNK. It would cost more to have the block cleaned up than to go to a junkyard and get a replacement. Heck, if you wanted to stay with the V6, you could probably get the harness WITH the engine for dirt cheap.

My advice would be to go and look at it first. If the brakes haven't been compromised (as in not taken apart), then you won't have to worry as much about it. The wiring harness will either be there or it won't (or may be butchered), and if not, since nobody seems to want a V6, you can get the harness cheap, since mostly they just end up in the junk bin. Worse comes to worse, you could pick it up and drop a carbed V8 in it and call it a day for about $1000 (junkyard engine and trans). My guess would be, if the suspension bushings and such aren't all dryrotted to crap, you could have this running for about $1500 total (but you would need at least a $300 tool set). Staying V6, the engines are dirt cheap (most people doing V8 swaps can't GIVE them away). You can then drive for a while, getting to know the car, until you have money for more if you want it.

Go and look at it first. It will either be perfect for getting to know how to work on cars or too much to handle.

cuisinartvette

no experience
no real tools
Money

Youre nuts....youll be working on that pos the rest of your life.
Go get one that runs and drives then learn to do basic maintenance, cosmetics etc. At least it wont get towed away lol. Seriously

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

I agree. The only reason why I would even look at it would be if I could get it at scrap value of $200 or so, then I could drop my 350 TPI in it. Even then I'd still have to find a transmission and work on it for months when I get time. It's definitely not a good platform to start with for someone that's inexperienced, unless your in the market for a piece of crap car to let a high school shop class tinker with. Unless it's a classic car that you want restored and has some retail value you could get acouple thousand easily wrapped up in that project before it even moves.


Let me provide a little more explanation:
There has to be a reason that it came apart. They might have thought they were going to build a hot rod out of it then lost interest.

As stated by others that V6 block looks horrible with the rust. Just a rebuild on that motor would more expensive than just getting another one in my opinion.

Unless they kept track of where parts went and what bolts went where it will be a nightmare for even an experienced 3rd gen owner to put back together. It's very easy to take stuff apart, but getting it back together in the right order with the right fasteners can be a bitch. If you didn't take it apart and aren't familiar with stuff you are basically relying on a GM Parts CD with exact bolt measurements and tool to figure out sizes and pitch of bolts for the ones you can find or running to a hardware store or dealership to find replacements. People always think of the big items when doing projects and forget about the little thing like fasteners, hoses, gaskets, bearings, and etc those can add up very quickly.

I would imagine even the interior is pretty much trashed after all those parts sat in there.

I would say if you really wanted it you could go check it out, probably buy, part it out, and try to make your money back while play around with stuff. Overall finding a decent running car or even one that has issues. I've seen 3rd gens cars around here go as cheap at $500 because of issues like starter was bad or front end accident with deer. Those would probably be a better way to go. Even just finding a good daily driver and having fun putting on bolt-on parts can be extremely fun. It's rather fun and entertaining to just slap on a bolt on each weekend and see the car change, then after a few years you have a car you have basically built/modded, and then you might be more adapt to take on a major project like this car.

Remember depending on your location your city might have an ordinance against non-running cars sitting outside. In that case it would have to be housed inside a garage taking up space.

fervernt

I realize that there would still be about the same cost involved in building this versus a different car like I was suggesting. The point I was trying to make was that you are a lot better off taking a car apart yourself so you can label and keep track of all the parts. Who knows if all the little nuts, bolts, and hoses are there when someone else tears it apart. When you take it apart yourself, you can see exactly what needs to be done as you go. Much more learning experience, and much less frustration that way. Although dropping in a v8 might not be bad. Just would have to do the research, from what I understand a v6 to v8 swap is a little tricky at parts, and op has no experience at all with this stuff.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Not really. Pretty much all of the hard stuff is already done (with the exception of changing the engine mounts on the crossmember). The engine and trans are out. Only thing left to swap (other than the mounts) is the engine harness and possibly the fuel pump/sending unit assembly (or add in an inline pressure regulator). It's not hard to replace the hardware. Just take the part that the bolt goes into with you to the store and get a bolt or 2 that works.

As for the other arguments...
1. Which one of us ISN'T working on our cars for the rest of either our or the car's lives? Unless it's a $30K build.
2. Again, STRAIGHT BODY. WITH ALMOST FULL INTERIOR. I bought my 88 for $900 with nothing more than a pile of parts inside, incomplete interior (missing panels, no carpet, no headliner, no visors), NO DASH, and NO DRIVETRAIN (other than the rear axle). This guy is getting a good deal for $400. With parts he can either scrap to get some money back OR sell.

You guys see a pile of scrap. Well, if you look around this site, there are guys who have started out with LESS (wrecks, missing body panels or suspension or other things) and made perfectly driveable cars out of them. About all this guy really needs is a decent tool set, a factory service manual, and, apparently, a lot of bolts and time. He's willing to learn, and what better way to learn than to take very little and make something out of it? If he has friends who know a little about what they're doing, he's even better off.

Again, OP, go and look at the car in person first. Make sure that:
A. The wiring harnesses are at least present and that they haven't been butchered TOO bad
B. There is a bag of bolts SOMEWHERE
C. There is little to no rust on the body
D. The rubber parts are at least serviceable

DeltaElite121

Maverick, that's like me telling you to professionally paint a Ferrari with ZERO experience. He stated in his first post that neither of them have any experience or the right tools. That's just suicide right there. Having friends that know what they're doing won't save him.. most of the time, people in this position end up doing all the work.

While you make valid points, a project like this for a first car to work on it waaaaaaaaaay too much. You need to have a SOLID car first so you know where and what everything is supposed to look like.. that way your second time around it's all very familiar to you. Buying someone else's basket-case just isn't a good idea for a newbie.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

That would be like me getting my basket case 87 back in 2003 with no more experience on cars than what I read in a 22 year old book at the time and having nothing more than a 96-piece tool set to work with. Been there, done that. It's perfectly doable. And, as I've said, others on here have started with less and made decent cars out of them. Your argument is bunk.

If he's committed, it can be done. If it's not what he's willing to handle (and he won't know until he goes to look at it), he passes. It's that simple. It's not like he's going to have to knock it down to the bare frame and start all over again (like I did).

DeltaElite121

I also did it with my 88' Mustang with zero experience.. and it had a shitload of issues with it just about everywhere that your average person wouldn't have an easy time figuring it out.. SOME OF WHICH I couldn't have figured out without other friends that did have a fox. That doesn't mean that everyone is capable of doing it because that's definitely not the case. I happened to get lucky on some of the things, and even then - that was a massive undertaking. The amount of people that can piece together a car PROPERLY is a very small minority, let alone a car that is in shambles like this one is.

If he had a firm idea of what he is doing he wouldn't even be asking such a basic question on the forums of all places (worried about the brakes in that whole heaping mess?? Seriously?). ANYTHING is technically possible with the right equipment. It doesn't mean that everyone should be out there doing it.

Why waste your time and money on someone else's POS? I've seen cars for $500 that are a thousand times nicer than that. Pass on that turd.

ElQuesoBandito

Thanks for setting me straight guys. Hopefully I'll find another bird so I can join the Third Gen club.