Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

So after about two years, it was time for the Firebird to come out of hibernation..
Filled the tank about half, charged the battery, and did everything I used to do in the past when the car was of the road for a longer time.
Car cranks, but will not start.
Injectors and fuelpump relays are powered, but there's no fuel, no fuelpump buzz can be heard as well.
What puzzles me, is the fact that the fuel cauche is reading completely full, but the fuel tank is only filled half...??
Any tips what I can do..??
Where are the electrical connections of the fuel pump located?
Thanks for any help.
5,7L TPI. (350 V-8)

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

"Dutch".. If I had to take a guess...and I will tread lightly on this....the insides of your tank, fuel pump, and sending unit float are all a bunch of rust and old furniture varnish. The connections can be located at the top of the tank.

My suggestion would be.....and I know you don't want to hear this, is to remove the tank, pump, sender and float and toss it in the trash, flush tank, and install new components.

Also, disconnect the fuel line from the fuel rail and fuel filter at rear of car and flush that also.

Then, since it's been sitting so long, I can probably say your injectors are toast, so I would replace those too. THEN fill with fuel and start the car.

Cars sitting for ANY long extended amount of time, (2 years) with fuel in the system is just terrible on the fuel system.

Sorry for raining on your parade, but I'm afraid that might be what it's gonna take.

IMO only.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Check your ground under the drivers seat. You can try just running a ground to the black wire in the connector under the car first so you don't have to pull the carpet up.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

If all fails, I may have to do that.
But, I always use fuell stabilizer in an almost empty tank before I put the car away, in a dry storage...

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Were can I find the connector you mentioned, don't see any electrical connetors at first sight...

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Above the center of the rear end mounted to the floor board under the car.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Found the connector, cleaned it, but no effect, will try to ground the black wire tomorrow.
But why is the fuel meter still at "max", even after disconnecting the battery..?
Found a new Delco fuel pump EP 241 on Ebay.
Also the sender unit, Delco FLS 1005,( but that's expensive....!)

Btw, is it possible to take the fuelpump out from above, after removing the carpet, with the tank still in place?

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Fuel gauge stays where it was at when shut off. Try taking connector loose and grounding the pink wire on the body side. With the ignition on it should go to empty. This would pretty well determine the ground is bad under the seat if it works. You can also jump from pink to black on body side of connector. If the gauge goes to E the sender is most likely bad. If it stays at full your ground is almost definitely bad. No way to pull the pump without hacking up your floorboard, please don't think about it.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

You mean the same connector under the car, you talked about earlier?

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Yes

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Will post results tommorow ( it's almost midnight overhere....!)

8Mike9

Sounds like my car...Bob nailed all the effects, waiting on injectors as I type this..after new pump and sending unit and spending time to clean the tank.

Now the fun part will be draining the tank, and you can't fit a regular siphon hose in, because at the end of the filler is blocked off in the middle.

From under the car (car was over my pit, so gave me a lot of extra room) I was able to lower the tank enough to get the sending unit loose, and siphon from it's hole.

I tried an external pump on the pressure line, but no go, when i got things apart, the screen was rusted solid.

Now, all hope is not lost, if you look at the 4 lines coming out of the sending unit, the one just next to the pressure line, goes to the bottom of the tank, just below the fuel pump, you should be able to connect there, and attach and external pump and suck most of the fuel out.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Haven't tried it yet, maybe tomorrow.
Assume the pump is bad, which new one to choose, Delco EP241 (=original), or Delco EP381, should be a better design, more flow, and a direct swap...??
Price is almost the same.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Is the Spectra FG20A a good choice for the sender?

aramirez121

ive heard alot of bad things about spectras from alot of other members on here i know you can pick one off od ebay for about 80 bucks or so and amazon to cuz ive had that problem also and if you want to clean your tank theres a thread on how to do it and as for making an access hole in the floor you can get it done for around 350 to 400 if you find the right guy i got one fabricated has a nice door and everything make it easier in the long run if the problem happens again and dont llisten to others about not doing it or doing it its tour car and you can do whatever you want to https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/show...1&goto=newpost heres that post for cleaning out the tank

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Thanks,
Maybe I need a new fueltank as well, as the fillerneck leaked in the past, so, is a Dorman tank from Rockauto any good?

aramirez121

you know if it did and your vin falls under recall you can get it replaced for free check it out before you look into a new one and id say so just stay away from spectras is all i can say the one i had didnt even fit.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

My '88 car was exported From The USA to The Netherlands, back in 1993.
I did contacted the Dutch importer about the recall, but they turned it down...
I won't buy a Spectra fuel tank...
First I have to test the grounds, as Joe Tag suggested.

aramirez121

try calling any chevy dealer about it then they have to pay for it at any shop cuz its under a recall theres a post on it here when i find it ill post it and also there is a wire inside that goes off the fuel sending unit in the tank that tells you when you are full or empty may have come off they do that after a while i know mine did the old varnish ate it away just some fyi if its not the grounds like joe mentioned

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

No official Chevy dealers in my country....

aramirez121

try calling the ones in the here in the US they may be able to help or any GM dealer In general but chevy dealers mostly have all the old recalls readily available cuz i know going through the gm was a hassle for me and others i know worth a shot idk?

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Have you tried to diagnose the problem? There are more things that can go wrong with the fuel system than just a pump. Seems like a lot of money to throw out at something told to you that happened to someone else. You may need to replace the pump and sender. It may be a bad ground, relay, wiring chewed by mice. Maybe you have money and effort to waste if it's not the parts you have already deemed bad without checking. I know I don't. Read this thread and try it, you may be pleasantly surprised it's something much cheaper and easier. You may not even need to butcher your car up with "access holes".
http://www.austinthirdgen.org/index.php?pid=35

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Joe, I grounded the pink wire, bodyside, and the gauche goes to empty.
Should I check the grounds under the seat next?
Were should I look exactly?

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

You're absolutly right, I'm just preparing for the worst...!

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Jump pink to black on that connector. If the gauge stays at full your ground is bad. Grounding the pink just tells you the circuit is good from connector to gauge. Go through the diagnosis steps on the link in my former post to diagnose the pump. But the ground is for the pump as well as the sender.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

I jumped pink to black, and the gauge goes to EMPTY....

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Sounds like bad news. You're going to have to pull the tank. The access hole is really a bad idea. You will have to cut a hole in the car, then that expensive sending unit? You can't put it in without cutting the lines on it and splicing them. Then you really can't clean the tank out right in the car. Doing things the right way is rarely easy. Doing things the easy way is rarely right.

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

Myself and a friend, both have mechanical skills and tools, had this job done in about 5 hours. 1 1/2 to pull, 1hour ish to clean tank and install pump/sender, and about 2 ish to install.
Its not that hard. You just need tools and a friend to help you.

Like Joe said, just do it right. Now if your car is hacked already, I guess it doesn't really matter. IMO only.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, I will not cut a hole in the car, we will do it the proper way!
I have to order all the parts in the USA, and have it shipped to Europe ( that will double the price in most cases...)
Can you comment about the parts I mentioned in the posts above?

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

I have a friend with a workshop, I will get the car to him, and we will do what you did
( btw, no hole in the car for sure..!!)

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

You can get the AC Delco Pump #Delco EP381 for around $90. Also, members on here swear by the Walbro #255 pump. I am not familiar with it, but my next one WAAAAY down the road hopefully, will be a Walbro.

The sender, stick with GM if you can.

As for your tank, you mentioned your neck was leaking? Once your tank is out and cleaned and purged, take it to a good welder and have it repaired. He will most likely purge with Argon or Nitrogen to rid of fumes before he welds to it,

I personally, would have it repaired. You'll save a small fortune by not having a new tank shipped to you.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

I can't say which pumps are best, been 15 years since I've done one. I do know to stay away from airtex pumps. I'd still pull the tank before ordering parts. Mice will make a mess of wiring when a car sits. May have chewed wires on top of the tank between the connector and sender. May have a rusted ground in the tank. It's a longshot and if it was as simple as going to the corner parts store like we do in the US to return parts I'd say go for it. International shipping is a whole different story.

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

Joe, The good thing (or bad) is that Fire's car isn't running now anyway. So for him to pull all apart and assess the findings, THEN order parts if needed, is for sure the way to go.
Agree on the corner parts store and shipping; that's gotta be a bummer!

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, I think you'll be hard pressed to convince him it's a good thing his car isn't running, lol. But I will put a positive spin on this. It will inspire him to fix the leak in the tank which will eventually pay for the repairs.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Well, the Dorman tank from Rockauto will cost me about $500 in total, and that may seem a lot to you, but in fact it's about the same I would have to pay overhere for any European car fuel tank...
Parts in the USA are very inexpensive, and the US Dollar is inexpensive for us as well, combined it's not that bad..
I don't like my old gastank with it's leaking fillerneck, and probably a lot of rust inside...
With two cats in the house, I'm not afraid of mice chewing up anything...
And I don't mind at all, the Firebird sitting for some more months, it's going to be fall and winter soon overhere.
After all, I have enough fun, driving my daily 2004 Alfa Romeo GT with 160HP turbo-diesel engine...and so much torque, it's almost like driving a SB V-8...!!

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Ordered on Ebay an EP381 for $79 incl. shipping to my country...!

I can't find an original Delco sender on Ebay, found a Spectra on Amazon, though, haven't ordered yet...

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

The fuelpump arrived last week, the sender and tank are on the way...

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Update.
This morning, we have fitted the new tank, sender and pump....at last...
Engine fired right up, after 5 years of standing...
Lesson learned the hard way...never leave a car standing for a long time with an empty fueltank...
The old sender, pump and strainer were covered with rust...
Lot's of work to do though, Vogtland lowering springs, braided brake lines, and find the electronic Gremlin that prevents the left fan from running...etc. etc.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Yup, leave it with a full tank.