Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Hi

I'm replacing my fuel pump. I've already dismounted the swaybar, panhard bar, panhard bar bracket, shocks, springs, heat shields, fuel lines and the plastic housing where the filler neck ends. The brake and fuel lines hang loose. I've lowered the axle and also got rid of the complete exhaust. I took away the retaining tank straps but can't get the dang thing out. I've read many instructions but no way :-( The tank gets stuck where the right spring / shock was. I'm not sure whether I'd have to lower the axle even more. But I experienced that there's a point where the axle wouldn't go lower. Somewhere it gets stuck... At the moment the axle sits about 2cm from that point. I'm not sure whether it's the torque arm or the hand brake line that prevents the axle from lowering more. Do you know something more about this problem? Is the lowering limited by the torque arm where it attaches to the transmission? Or is it the LCAs?

Please help... thanks a lot!

Base91

iTrader: (1)

It can be done but with a lot of twisting and turning and getting things lined up just right. If I ever do it again I'll remove the axle just to avoid all that. May, or may not, take a bit longer but will be so easy to get the tank in and out. Getting it back in was worse than taking it out with the axle still hanging there.

Restrorob

iTrader: (7)

BINGO !

That's just what I did to make the job easier, and explained that in Thomas's other thread.......

92RS shearn

I just unbolted the panhard, torque arm and shocks and left the control arms in.

antares57

iTrader: (8)

Did you disconnect the bracket that holds the fuel lines to the frame rail? Didn't see it mentioned above. This will allow the axle to drop even further. Have changed fuel pumps in both my '91 Base and '88 Firebirds. It will not just drop down, you need to rotate it to its "sweet" spot. Good luck.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Yes, I disconnected the brackets (it was three of them holding the lines to the frame).

But does anyone know whether the torque arm somehow limits the amount of dropping the axle? I can't get it lower, it gets stuck and it's really not the brake line... I mean, must be something that's quite strong, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to hang it loose without the jack under it. All I can think of is the hand brake cable, the torque arm or the LCAs.

And yes, I tried twisting the tank ;-)

Another question: If I decided to remove the axle completely... what else do I have to disconnect other than the brake line and the LCAs? How does the torque arm connect to the axle? Won't there be any fluid coming out of the pumpkin? And how can I plug the brake line?

spurgeon76

When I did mine I did not have to remove the torque arm. The biggest issue I had was working it out without bending the fuel filler neck. you have to pull the tank towards the passenger side and snake it out a bit.

spurgeon76

If you drop the axle. the torque arm is held on by two big bolts running top to bottom. you will have to remove the brake lines, torque arm, drive shaft, and of course, shocks and e brake cable.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I pulled it to the pass side, but then at a point it gets stuck at where the panhard bar is mounted. This metal part pokes out quite a lot. I can't pull it any further, but then again maybe that's not the problem...

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Be sure to remove the fuel cap from the tank.

RBob.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Oh gosh, that's what I forgot...

Nope, little joke... the filler neck opening is "naked" ;-)

antares57

iTrader: (8)

Get the back end up higher. I had my front end on 2-ton jack at their peak and my rear end on 3-ton jack stands leveling it off. It was high.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Okay but just for my understanding... what's the advantage of getting the back up higher? The tank gets stuck at the frame when I try to pull it. And the relation between tank and frame won't change if I get the frame higher... no?

static80

I did mine a little while ago. Managed to get the axle far enough away from the body without undoing the torque arm or the lower control arms. When you rotate the front of the tank down, the upward angle on the filler tube changes to forward, then slightly down leting you lower the passenger side of the tank. It can be done, but it did rub a bit on the body on the way out and back in. My panhard, and frame brace, shocks, and brake lines were undone.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for your help. For the understanding... "The front of the tank down"... you mean that I have to rotate it to the right (= to the front) or to the left (to the rear)? And the front means the long side of the tank facing the front of the car?

eseibel67

I'm not sure what the problem is, but you have enough disassembled that you should be able to squirm the tank out.

At this point, you might think about removing the axle completely. When you disconnect the front-to-rear brake line from the flex line, you can plug it with a vacuum cap. It will still need to be bled, but that will prevent most of the fluid from leaking out.

The torque arm is mounted to the axle by some big *** bolts. No, you will not lose any rear gear fluid out of the pumpkin, but you will lose your transmission fluid when you pull the driveshaft.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Well, it's only the last option really to pull the axle completely.

But just to know... you write, I won't loose the rear fluid but the transmission fluid when I pull the driveshaft. So I'll have to pull the driveshaft? Don't guess so...

But if I pull the driveshaft at the pumpkin, why won't I loose any fluid from the pumpkin? How is the driveshaft connected to the pumpkin so that no fluid would leak out if I pull the driveshaft?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Try removing the little brass block, where the rubber brake hose connects to the rear, from the rear end housing. You don't have to disconnect the hose; just take out the bolt that holds the brass piece to the pumpkin.

Leave the drive shaft alone. But to answer the question about "fluid", it's because the drive shaft is entirely external to the pumpkin; no fluid comes out, because nothing that holds the fluid in, gets disturbed.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

@Sofakingdom

So your suggestion is for being able to lower the axle even more? I really don't think that it's the brake line preventing the axle from going down lower.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Thomas, every time anyone posts an answer to your questions, you argue with them. Why do you do that?

Instead of arguing with me, go out there and TRY IT.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I'm sorry, but if it was the brake line, wouldn't it have been torn apart when the whole weight of the axle pulled on it?

Sure I can try but it all takes time because I don't have the axle on the jack anymore. It sits on a wooden construction and I keep the tank from hanging loose and maybe damage the filler neck by resting it on my wooden construction. I have to see how I can hold up the tank if I want to lift the axle again.

I'm just trying to avoid MAYBE useless actions...

EDIT:

Thanks about the information about driveshaft and pumpkin. So apart from the torque arm holding the axle to the driveshaft, the driveshaft is only tucked into the pumpkin? So if I dismounted the torque arm I would be able to just pull the axle to the rear and the driveshaft would come out?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Yes, of course it will, eventually.

Good reason to STOP ARGUING and go outside and LOOK AT IT. Right now. No more Internet posts until you LOOK.

THEN AND ONLY THEN, come back and tell us what you saw.

static80

At this point the axis the tank rotates on is going to be the filler neck. if you look at the passenger side of the vehicle/tank the tank rotates clockwise.

http://www.users.qwest.net/~nscamaro.../FuelPump3.pdf

that link is from an old thread https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...k-removal.html

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys, my tank has finally come out ;-) I'm a bit ashamed... the reason why I couldn't pull it at first was my wooden constructure. There were four thread bars which prevented the tank from lowering enough. I just took the constructure on the right side away and lowered the axle a wee bit more. Then I could get it out with almost no problem. It was exactly like this.. first I pulled it quite a bit to the front and pass side wheel and then flipped it on its axis. I have to say, it's actually easier than I first thought. All it needs is enough room :-)

Thanks to all, anyway :-)


@static80: I wonder what manual that is you got there...? I also have a PDF of '88 Firebirds. But in my manual the part for the fuel tank removal ist a lot shorter and less detailed.

antares57

iTrader: (8)

Good Job! It'll be easier the second time around.

static80

The manual that I posted was origionally posted by Scottmoyer https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/member.php?u=4083

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I was just thinking... it's not that big deal as some in this forum say. Well, say if all the suspension nuts come off easily which I was lucky with mine. But I seem to have the same problem as many others... the area where the filler neck attaches to the tank seems to be darker. I wasn't really aware of having spilled some fuel when refueling or any fuel smell... so I'm not sure whether it should be taken care of. Does anyone know how much it would cost to renew the weld? How dangerous is it to go on driving like this if it's just a very bit of "leakage" at the filler neck to tank?

Also I think I should apply some anti-rust or grease to the whole tank. There are a few spots where there is at least some superficial rust. Any recommendations? I heard of vaseline as a good anti-rust treatment

kx3g

I've painted several tanks with POR-15 with good results. It's good stuff, but a little pricey.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys... today I was quite annoyed. I pulled the sending unit and wanted to replace the pump.

I have a Bosh replacement pump that comes with a new rubber gasket (under the lock ring), new rubber hose between pump and fuel line and some adapters. I unfortunately found out that the new pump is a bit shorter than the old one... well okay that's not a big problem. But the new rubber hose has a too small diameter, so it won't really fit over the fuel line. If you use much force and put it over the fuel line the clamp that comes with the pump is too small so that you won't be able to put it over the hose. I decided to use my old hose and plastic clamps even though the hose looks a bit brittle. Does anyone know what kind of hose I need for in-tank usage? Is this a special rubber / polyester that won't get eaten by the fuel?

The electric connector wouldn't fit on the pump. I needed an adapter which led to more bending of the cable.

The new rubber ring that works as a seal between the lockring and the sending unit isn't the same design. It lacks some side flaps and it doesn't seem to fit right into the tank. Not sure whether it's sealing enough now.

All in all I'm not really happy about this purchase. Hope the Bosch fuel pump will work fine at least.

Did anyone else have problems with aftermarket fuel pumps and accessories that came with it?

Thanks,
Thomas

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

There is a recall on the fuel tanks, it's a different year but the info may help.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...call-read.html

Grease will probably stick around longer than vaseline. All it does is keep salt and air away from the surface.
Some grease is stickier than others, tar can also be used but make sure you're not creating places that can trap water/salt etc.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Well, looks as if I'd have to take the tank to the service... what will that cost to renew the welding? I'm not sure whether mine leaks but at least it looks as if (darker color around). A new tank is under 200 dollars (well + quite some dollars for shipping to Switzerland in my case). I could imagine that a rewelding can also be pricy.

Is the danger real or just something GM mentions so that noone can take them to court? Since mine is darker now I guess it has been (if at all) leaking for quite a while. If I hadn't looked at the tank I even wouldn't have noticed.

RamIt

Take the tank to a shop that repairs radiators in your area. It cost less than $100 in my area to get a tank fixed.

Another alternative would be getting a new tank from Rockauto. It's going to cost about 400 euro's shipped. Make sure if you do this to choose one that comes from with the filler neck.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Hm, well... I'm just a bit afraid if I got my tank fixed and then while installing the tank, I might again put too much pressure on the filler neck and it could crack again... Are weldings so sensitive?