Fanatic1074

Hey guys i have been battling this problem for a few months, its not my daily driver so its not been too big of a deal. But i have an 86 IROC with 383, aluminum heads mild cam, accel coil pack and rotor. stock 305 distributor ( i think this might be the issue ). I was having a problem keeping timing in line the distributor holder kept moving was my best guess. but now i think something is maybe wrong in the distributor. Im actually not real sure what a faulty distributor would do but thats why im here. Hoping to get some good info.

Also i changed out the plug wires just recently and following that the vehicle started hesitating very randomly. Its strange will act perfectly fine for miles and miles then out of no where its almost like it wants to die for just a sec then resumes normal operation. No idea if the issues are linked or if it had anything to do with the new wires but thought i would throw that in there. the new wires are MSD custom, i made them and all of them OHM'd out at less that 40 ohms per foot.

Thanks in advance.

UltRoadWarrior9

I'm not sure what others would say, but I always question why someone only replaces one part of the ignition system when doing a tune-up. If you do the wires, why not do the distributor cap and rotor, and plugs as well? It will help you from chasing your tail! Also, keep written log of what you did and the mileage.

Fanatic1074

Yea sorry i was not clear, within the last few months i have replaced, coil, cap, rotor, plugs and wires. So everything except the distributor is new.

Also i do have extensive logs of everything. An excel doc of what was done on what date and mileage, as well as hyperlinks to cloud docs of the receipts.

My question is why would someone comment on something like this only seemingly to try to make the OP look like they don't know what they are doing? I came here for help. Am i not in the right place?

UltRoadWarrior9

??? Was only trying to help. Later

Justins86bird

If your overheating on interstate, check your airdam and make sure its secure.

Did you replace the module (ICM) that sits in the distributor?

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Are you running an EFI system or carb?
What is the "stock 305 distributor"? Is that a computer controlled unit or a mech/vac advance unit?

What is your total timing set to?

Running hot on the interstate =
Air dam not in place and working as it should,
Rad. fines clogged up and air not flowing through rad core...
Ignition timing off,
A/F ratio lean

Fanatic1074

Air dam is ok. All nice and secure, just replaced filters as well.

I did not replace the ICM. Could that be the issue? Didnt think it would cause something like this.

I am running the DFI stock setup however it has edelbrock fuel rails, plenum and 20 lb injectors now. However, before i acquired the car it was replaced wth an Accel ECU. Its the old 6.0 system.

I set the base timing to 18 degrees, i cant remember total timing number. I slept since then. I think around 3000 rpm it was around 34 degrees. I would have to check again to be sure.

The distributor is computer controlled there is a wire you can actually disconnect that goes to the computer. (I thought this was stock on all the third gens)

Night rider327, your conclusions sound very good. Air dam looks ok, radiator looks fine, no bent or smashed sections, Ignition timing could be it and i cannot adjust my a/f because of the old accel system, no one will work on it. However it ran fine for the first 8 months i had it. So i dont think the a/f mix is it. Would the distributor play any part in an issue like this? I honestly dont know alot about distributors.

Thanks guys

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

If you set your timing at, 18* is way out...should be around 6* initial timing with the factory ignition set up. I'm not sure how it's running well at all...but that could be part of your problem. Disonnect the wire to the distributor, set timing to 6 degrees BTDC, turn off car, re connect wire, turn car on. Timing set.

Fanatic1074

If i set initial timing at 6* the total timing ends up being around 25, in order to get my total timing up around where it needed to be i had to run a high initial. I can try setting it to 6-8 but i dont think it will stay running at idle.

Fanatic1074

Ok timing at idle set to 6* without the timing spout attached. When i hook it back up and check timing at idle its at about 24*. When i had my wife hold it at 3k it was at 35*.

This sound ok?

Im no expert at timing so im going by things i have heard and you guys.

One thing i never have understood about timing is getting the piston at TDC before timing it. So i didnt do that. Not sure how much difference that makes.

I didnt get a chance to drive it because its pouring rain outside and i try not to take this out in the rain etc... Plus its 57* out right now, not sure it could over heat LOL

Sorry for my ignorance but im used to working on distributor-less cars :-/

Ohh and i checked the timing before i changed it and it was 16*.

ASE doc

ACCEL DFI is not like the OE system. Unfortunately, since this system is now old school, ACCEL no longer supports it. To set timing on the DFI system, do not disconnect the timing connector. Using a dial back timing light, set timing at 1,600 rpm to match the ECM reading as seen on your laptop. I guess you know that you need a laptop or desktop for that matter running Windows 98 or 95 to run the Calmap 6.2 software.

Once you've set the base timing in this manner, timing is then set using the spark map in Calmap. The only time you ever need to adjust the dizzy is when you've had it out for some reason.

ACCEL DFI gives you virtual dash where you can view multiple data PIDS. You can access this by pressing the "V" key. While I run this system myself and have played alot with it, I don't remember all of this exactly, so it may be another key. I know that "Q" is exit. If it's not V, try others.

One thing that may help you to determine if this is a timing related issue, which is likely since it sounds like you're over advanced, is to compare ECT on virtual dash to gauge temp. The ECT sensor is installed in the water jacket just below the T-stat. The gauge sender is installed in the LH cylinder head. A rise in gauge temp, beyond the rise of ECT indicates elevated cyl head temp. Remember also, the temp gauge on these cars is not accurate. However, if you see the gauge going north and ECT staying around the 210-220 range, as it will with stock T-stat and fan settings, this is a sign the cyl head temp is rising from excessive spark advance or lean AFR.

With ACCEL DFI, all fuel and spark settings are up to the tuner. The system comes with a start up program that isn't right for any motor, but should get you running. Tuning the ECM for an engine is entirely up to the installer/tuner. The setting on you car now are whatever the PO programmed into the ECM. He may have the Base Fuel Map too lean at cruise. It sounds like the Spark Map has too much advance written in. As a general rule, 29 degrees at 2,900 rpm at full throttle for max torque. Working your way down towards idle and up slightly, peaking at maybe 34-36 at redline. You can add cruise timing for increased fuel efficiency as you move away from max load. Too much full load timing will cause detonation, kill power and your engine, and heat things up. Too much cruise advance will also encourage detonation and will heat things up.

In the DFI Spark Map it gives you a two dimensional grid with RPM on the Y axis and MAP on the X axis. On my aggressive build, I find that I have to keep the cruise advance down to keep my cyl head temp in line.

ACCEL DFI was available with fan control. This allows adjustment of fan on temp in the ECM with Calmap. Assuming you have this, you can adjust fan temp down some. If you still have the 194 T-stat, you don't want to set fan temp below about 210 or the fan will run pretty much all the time.

Does this car have AC? If so, you may want to detach the top of the radiator from the core support and pull it back slightly to look between the rad and condenser. You may find alot of fine crud built up there blocking air flow. Also, if the cooling system hasn't been well cared for, you can expect some of the rad core to be plugged.

Fanatic1074

Wow ASE Doc that was alot of good info. I do have the connector and calmap software, i even have an old dell laptop that i have been able to get connected to the car. However i have no idea what i am doing to actually use that software to tune it. The software i have is dos based, is there anything with a GUI?

Im pretty sure its running rich, i smell fuel alot when running the car in my garage even with a fan blowing air outside.

The car was tuned before the new aluminum heads were installed. Cam is now a compucam 2050. I have attached details on the cam.

So i know it needs a new tune but again it was running fine for a long time and then all the sudden this started. I found that the distributor clamp had allowed the distributor to move, so thats why i re-timed it. Ever since then i cant get it quite right.

My biggest issue is i cant find anyone who will touch the system i have on here. So im alone on tuning it.

I have been thinking about putting the FAST self tuning system on there. I hear you can get the full system to go on these cars for 1500.

Anyway ill try getting out that old laptop and trying to play around with the calmap software again but it wont be for a while, the laptop is in another state right now.

Ohh and the AC has been taken out of the car and there is not anything interfering with airflow that i can tell. I just cleaned up the radiator and put dual becools on the radiator.

Anything else i might be able to look at in the interim?

Fanatic1074

Ok setting the timing to 6* seems to have made the car run like crap. It died three times on me and when i gave it more then half throttle i could hear almost like an exhaust noise that was never there before. Going to set it back to 16* when i get the motivation.

Damon

Why not just replace the distributor? It's the last thing you haven't touched in the ignition. Go yank one from a junkyard engine. It may not be tip-top but it's for sure it's unlikely to suffer the exact same "failure" as your current one.

Put it in. If no change in the problem, it's not an ignition issue.

If the problem clears up or you have a completely different problem take it's place, you're in the right vicinity at least.

Fanatic1074

Yea i know i could, but i just like to know why im replacing a part before i do it. I have no idea how a bad distributor would act, that was one of my questions. And i don't want to just throw a part at it. Its not an everyday driver so its not a big deal for it to sit a while.

Damon

I can appreciate that. I prefer to diagnose properly before replacing parts, too. The problem is that the distributor has electronic parts inside it that defy backyard/shade tree mechanic diagnosis. They can test good but still be bad. They might work fine when cold but have catastropic failures when the get to typical underhood operating temps.

They need to be treated sometimes as a single (non-testable) part for diagnostic purposes. It's somewhat in the nature of electronic/integrated circuit devices.

I keep a known-good spare on my shelf for just such occasions. Much easier, diagnostically speaking, to change the whole unit and monitor for differences in the symptoms than spend time and money changing individual parts inside the distributor which can suffer from multiple failures, all interacting with eachother in unpredictable ways.

ASE doc

What version of Windows is on the Dell laptop you have? It needs to be 95 or 98 in order to run the Calmap software. If you don't already have it, the software, Calmap 6.32, is available for free download on the Prestolite ACCEL website. I have used the downloaded software and it works fine. You also need an interface cable that hopefully came with the car. Otherwise, you can make one with a little electronics savy, following instructions that you can find with a google search. Otherwise, the cable is obsoleted. I bought one of the last ones offered by ACCEL, just to have the original. Don't ask how much I paid for it. It only makes me sad to think about it.

The one that originally came with my DFI system was stolen with my old laptop by a crack head who probably got next to nothing for the old thing. He wouldn't have even known what the cable was.

Once you are connected, the system is old school to tune. You either need a wideband O2 sensor and AFR gauge to read fueling, or know how to read plugs, and then it will take some time and alot of tuning expertise. If you think it might be too lean, I would suggest not driving it too much before it's tuned, or atleast add a little fuel to the mix to be safe. You can and will smoke the engine running it lean.

If you have the software, a laptop to run it on, and the interface, you might consider having it tuned on a dyno by a tuning shop. They might scratch their heads at the old Calmap software but anyone who knows anything about tuning will figure it out real quick. It really is a great old system, with about every feature you would ever need to operate anything from a stock engine to an 850hp beast. It even has both boost and NOS retard options.

ASE doc

The timing has to be set using Calmap, along with a timing light to get the dist set to match the ignition map in the ECM. Once the dist is clocked to match the ECM, timing is set using the ignition map in Calmap. It is really cool to be able to completly tailor the timing curve to an engine build without ever connecting a timing, aside from the initial setup. Trying to set the timing using the OE method, on an engine running DFI, will only screw things up. If nothing else, try putting the timing back where it was before you changed it, if you remember where it was.

I found an awesome article on ACCEL DFI with a Yahoo search. It was on a site called windstream.net. If I was better with my PC, I would post a link for you. Just try doing a search for "Tuning with ACCEL DFI" and look for windstream. These guys know alot more than I do about it and they provide the entire setup and tuning instructions. Better than the original manual that came with the system.

Galaxie500XL

iTrader: (1)

I can think of a couple of possibilities, they both result in the same thing, but being unfamiliar with the Accel distributor, the cause could be different.


Basically, I'm wondering about the timing being retarded at cruise. This will definitely create a heat problem at cruise, which wouldn't necessarily be obvious in stop and go traffic around town. I can think of 3 possible scenarios that could cause the problem, but freely admit not knowing if they apply to your problem.


*knock sensor--if the sensor is detecting knock, the stock ignition on the car begins dialing back the timing, which could lead to driving with the timing retarded.


*distributor--not sure if your Accel distributor uses centrifugal advance weights, but it's not uncommon for the weights to become "stuck" on the little pivot pins. If they're stuck in the "closed" position, you've got no centrifugal advance, which means while base timing is good, no advance is being added at off-idle, leading to retarded timing during cruise and high RPM operation.


*timing chain--least likely, but IIRC, a tired chain tends to "grow" when hot, leading to retarded cam and ignition timing, since the distributor is driven off of the cam.


Could be that I'm way off base here, but perhaps one of these suggestions might help you solve the problem.


One other quick question...you mentioned having replaced the cam, and installing aluminum heads--did the overheating issue begin immediately after this work was done, or did this start being a problem much later? If it started immediately, I'd be wondering if the cam timing was set correctly when the cam was installed--of course, I'd assume if a new cam was installed, a new timing chain and gear set was also installed, making my third scenario pretty unlikely.

ASE doc

Retarded timing causing overheat? I would have to challenge that assertion. In many years of tuning and diagnosing engine performance, I've never seen that be the case. The opposite, too much advance causing the engine to run over-temp, that I've seen. Retarded timing will just kill power and make the manifolds/headers glow red. Hot manifolds and hot engine are two very different things.

Fanatic1074

I have tried playing around with the calmap software and i just dont think i know enough about tuning to figure this out. I was trying to use that guide with the tuning that ASE doc was talking about and i really dont understand what its trying to tell me to do. So what i did for now is just took the middle ground on timing. 6* was too low and i think 16* was too high so i tried 11* and it seems to run there ok.

If anyone in the Nashville area is familiar with calmap 6.32 and the accel ECU i would appreciate some local experienced help. There is one tuning shop that i have found around here and i was not too impressed with his tuning abilities.

As far as the cam/heads, yea the problem started waaay after those were installed.

So what distributor would i need with this motor? Its a 383, Using electronic advance of course but it seems the ones i have found are all vacuum controlled. I found a couple that are not but not sure if its the right ones or not.

Galaxie500XL

iTrader: (1)

Too little advance will result in incomplete fuel burn, and yes, glowing manifolds, as the unburned fuel continues combusting in the exhaust manifold. However, this can lead to overheating of the engine itself, as a greater portion of the cylinder wall is exposed, creating greater heat transfer to the coolant.


I understand this seems a bit counterintuitive, but I assure you, it is possible. Many people are aware that a lean mixture can lead to overheating, but too little spark advance can also do so.


Google "retarded timing overheating"...I learned this long before the Internet, though...


http://www.rootesparts.com/id201.htm


#3 specifically mentions this...but there are far better resources to explain this--unfortunately, I don't have time right now to provide further information.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

FWIW, there is a book on tuning the ACCEL/DFI. I see them at the local book store quite often for $5-$10. I'm not sure how well it's written for your purposes but thought I'd throw it out there. Links below:

Prices are ridiculous but describes it well.

Says it's $15 here:
https://sdparts.com/details/hp-books/hp1413

Another thing I didn't see mentioned is checking the spring in the lower rad hose and also checking for dirt inside the fins on the rad and condenser.

ASE doc

For now, I stand corrected. I will be doing more research on this though and maybe testing this on an engine or two. I've learned to really watch for over advanced timing, due to the severe damage it does. I guess I've learned to equate that with overheating.

Fanatic1074

Update *

Well i was warming up the car today, was going to check the timing again and compare it to the Calmap software but ran into an issue.

I stated earlier that it was acting like it was wanting to die on me a few times. Well i think whatever it was finally gave out. I had the car on for about 5 minutes and it died out of no where and wouldnt start. I checked it and it had no spark. pulled the coil and test it and it tests good. So i went ahead and bought a reman distributor and it came with a new pickup coil and ignition control module. Ill be installing it this weekend and that may be the end to my problems. However i would like to know what was bad and why if this does take care of it.

Does anyone know how to bench test a 7 pin ICM? I have seen several very elaborate setups involving basically creating your own ignition system to test it but nothing like checking resistances or voltages. I have seen a couple 8 pin test setups but nothing for the 7 pin.

Damon

You don't test it at home in your workshop. Some auto parts places can test it for you, but I've seen them test good and still be bad (they often fail when they get hot- that's the nature of the beast when it comes to integrated circuits).

Like I said 10 posts up, replace the whole distributor and see if your problem goes away.

For the home-gamer it's about the best course of action as far as a diagnostic procedure. It's exactly why I keep a known-good spare on my shelf.

I realize you may not like this answer. But it is the right answer.

Fanatic1074

Damon, i planned on it :-).

I actually did replace the distributor, came with ICM and pickup coil. Had to replace the cap as the distributor was setup for spring clamps and mine was screw in. Orileys took back the coil and replaced it with a new one as well just in case it was an issue with the coil.

Got it all replaced and timed then took it out and now i have a stumble at 3k rpm. :-(. Wont go over 3k rpm in any gear. So i did some research and found a few possibilities, most likely in my situation is that the ICM connections are oxidized / or just need cleaned, which could have been my problem all along.

Link to article i found -- Fix

So i took the coil cap and rotor back off and disconnected all the connections sprayed them down with a generous amount of electronics cleaner let them sit for about half hour without being connected to anything then reassembled everything using dielectric grease on the electrical connections.

When it was all said and done it was about midnight and my car is pretty loud so i decided to wait til tomorrow to test it.

Wish me luck. In the mean time if anyone sees this and has other ideas in case this does not work, please post them :-). I have already seen some people saying it could be Cats(cats have about 5k miles on them, doubt this is the issue), or torque converter (wtf? not sure how but ok..) and even bad intake air flow (checked this and all seems well).

Thanks in advance.

ASE doc

I don't see how connections would be corroded on a fresh out of the box distributor. Maybe you got lucky here but, more likely the problem is in the reman distributor from O'Reily's(formerly Schucks). This would pretty much have to be an A1Cardone reman, since it's about all that any of the chain stores sells. AC Delco remans are available from AC Delco suppliers. I would recommend them for a stock replacement.

Another option would be to move away from the OE type distributor to something like the MSD Pro Billet, or other good aftermarket replacements. If you are running the large cap, internal coil HEI, you have more options, like DUI or Mallory, since the internal coil HEI is so popular. Any distributor that supports EST will work with the DFI's timing control.

I have the external coil ACCEL Billettech dist on mine with MSD digital 6 module. I started out with ACCEL 300+ but the module left me after 25K miles. With a little wiring, the MSD hooked right up to the Billettech distributor and works great. I don't know if I would trust the ACCEL dist as a standalone. With the MSD box, the ICM only has to handle timing control with the DFI and provide a PIP signal input the box. The box handles the heavy load of operating the coil. This reduces stress on the ICM and makes for a much hardier ignition system.

EDIT: Restricted exhaust is a common cause of lack of power above 3K. I see this fairly often. If this has been a problem for you for a while, consider check for a clogged exhaust. A quick test is to disconnect the exhaust in front of the cat and see if the power loss is gone. This is assuming that the power loss is not something new since you installed the new dist.

Fanatic1074

cleaning the connections didnt help. I dont think its clogged cats, because if i give it WOT it will go passed 3k fine. But anything less and it just falls on its face at 3k. Also this was not an issue before this.

It is a reman cardone. I cannot find a new one anywhere. Mine is the electronic advance and ill i seem to be able to find is the vacuum advance new.

I am interested in your setup tho. It sounds like you had to find a new place to mount these external components.

ASE doc

Actually mine is an 87. Came from the factory with the external coil. I made a harness for the MSD and mounted it where the charcoal canister used to be. It stays nice and cool there.

Look at MSD's Pro Billet line. As I remember, these are direct fit factory replacement units, except built with MSD components. A big difference is that they went away from the OE's timing core, pick up coil design and instead use a Ford style reluctor and pick up coil. It's a simpler design and seems to be more trouble free. I know that the ACCEL Billettech is built this way and has worked very well. Again, I don't rely on the ACCEL's HEI module for full duty. It just triggers the MSD Dig 6 to fire the coil.

EDIT: Just looked at Summit. It appears MSD only offers the external coil EST replacement. However, with a little wiring and electrical finesse, it wouldn't be too difficult to swap the external unit into your car. It will work just fine with the DFI. There would be a different adapter harness. Yours should have the 4 pin inline connector with GM weatherpack terminals. The external coil EST takes a smaller 4 pin metripack style for the EST control and a separate two pin connector for power and primary output. I honestly don't remember how the DFI's timing control harness went together. I do know that the basic EST function is the same on both the internal and external units. You need the crank reference(purple/white), the bypass(tan/black), and timing control output(white). You would just need the right connectors and to put a harness together, if one isn't available ready made. I don't remember if the wire colors are different on the DFI side. It may be that the harness for the DFI gen 7 works with gen 6 as well.

ASE doc

I fired up the old Windows 98 laptop this weekend and did a little tweaking to both the base fuel map and the ignition map on my beasty this weekend. I pulled a bit of fuel, in the idle zone of BFM, since I have felt for a while now like it was running rich. I had gone in last week and pulled 1.5% across the board from the IAT correction map to lean the overall fuel delivery. In the spark map I brought base timing at idle up to 26 degrees(ZZX cam) and wrote in 38 degrees in the cruise zone (top, middle of the map). I've played with vac advance on some of my high performance street builds and ended up feeling like the added advance increased operating temp at cruise. I'll test it out again on my own strong little 355 and see what I find out. So far the engine seems happy with the adjustments, but it hasn't been real warm here since then.

Fanatic1074

Sorry i have not replied to the thread lately but i have been really frustrated with the car and kinda took a break. So i managed to find a brand new distributor, pickup coil, ICM, rotor, cap and coil (all in one package). Installed it, set base timing to 9* right about in the middle of where it was running good before the issue and where people say it should be and then took it for a drive, it felt like it was retarded, so i went back to check timing and it wont friggin start again. No spark!

Im running out of ideas. Next thing on my list was to try to trace down the wires from the ICM to the ECU and see if i can find a bare wire or something.

Im out of state right now for a family event but in the mean time, does anyone else have any other ideas?

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Yep, sometimes if you have a defective electronic part it can affect other parts that you plug into it. Say you have a slight short (Ie. drawing more amps than it should) in the ECU. You swap the ICM and the problem goes away for a while but then comes back. So next time you swap the ECU, however the newer ICM has now developed a similar short. Because of this, the newer ECU goes bad but you have no idea why. Besides that, other things could be drawing too many amps as well, and these things can also be heat related and/or intermittent like a wire touching another wire or ground.

If you're chasing your tail sometimes it's a good idea to develop a plan, and do things in a certain order so possibilities are eliminated in such a way that they cannot (or are much less likely to) reappear. Sometimes this involves metering all connectors (while warmed up and cold) and if the wiring is sound, replacing everything at one time. These can be used from a known good car if that is less expensive. Also, it may help to ohm out new components before installing and then ohming them out after they are used to see if there are any differences.
EDIT: Oh, and also meter your wiring while the issue is occurring, and also before you move anything around.
-hope that helps and good luck.

rslickster

I got my AC Delco from Rock Auto. ACDELCO 88864781 Professional||Remanufactured . Mine has been running for 2 years with no problem.

Fanatic1074

Still on vacation but i was thinking and i want to test the wires that go to the distributor. the 4 wire harness. Can anyone tell me what i should be seeing there? Just want to see if the issue is actually in the harness before i have to tear apart the dash or something drastic.

Thanks

ASE doc

Do you have any service information for the car? A good service manual will have the C-4 "Ignition System Check" test sequence. Check your work first for any possible poor connections or something coming loose.

The quick test of the circuits to the ECM is to simply disconnect the 4 pin connector. If you have spark with the harness disconnected, that's a good sign that the problem is in the harness or the ECM. Isolate the harness by disconnecting it at both ends and check for shorts between wires and to ground. I don't remember for sure, but I seem to remember the ACCEL DFI uses the same basic architecture for EST operation as the factory system did, so the circuit tests should be the same.

If you have spark with the 4 pin unplugged, then check powers and grounds to the ECM. Since you have ACCEL DFI, someone had to install the ECM and harness into the car, including connecting power and ground. Check the circuits and make sure you have solid power and ground to the module. The gen 6 module is a tough unit built by Motorola and ECM failure is unlikely. More likely you just bought a faulty distributor. I agree that of the OE replacements, AC Delco is the way to go.

Fanatic1074

I do have a haynes manual. However i think i may have a short in one of the harnesses. The car was running earlier today and i started moving wires around and the cars idle was moving around in conjunction with my moving of the wires. I do believe that the short is either just behind the motor or its one of the harnesses going into the firewall.

The car is still warm now so i am going to let it sit over night and try to get the car in the air and see if i can get a good view of all the wires, i may have to break the engine loose from its mounts or something in order to get a better look. Or maybe even try to see from the inside. Not sure if ill have the time to do it all this weekend as we have alot of family plans. However i will post results.

Thanks

Fanatic1074

I have found three bare wires behind the motor. Two of them went to a harness that connected to a sensor or something, However its not connected anymore. not sure what it is. Its a two wire connector. I just taped it up and then tucked the wires off to the side for now. The other bare wire was a ground, so i dont think that was causing problems but i taped it up as well.

While i was back there i pulled all the old tubing covering the wires off and checked everything i could. I dont see any additional issues. Im waiting on new tubing and then ill start putting it all back together. My next step is to check the 4 pin connector going to the distributor when i get it back together.

I do have a question. If i happened to get the distributor off one tooth would a timing light show that? When i had it started up i set the timing to 12* but it seemed like it was running retarded. I figured if i got it off one tooth it wouldnt run at all.

Thanks.

ASE doc

12 degrees is 12 degrees. If the dist was off one tooth, you would find yourself having to rotate it the equivalent of that one tooth to get the same timing you had before. The ECM and even the dist itself have no idea what way the dist is pointing. Only where the primary ignition pulse events take place and that is determined by where you set timing.

Can you tell what color the wires to that two wire connector are? If so, you can use wiring diagrams to figure out what they were. They could be for the MAT sensor that was originally installed on the rear bottom of the plenum. If that is the case, and the air temp correction tables are set up, there will be a definite effect if those wires are shorted to each other.

Fanatic1074

Yes the wires are Black/Pink and Grey. Looked it up when i finally found my manual and its the EGR solenoid. When the engine swap was performed, the EGR was never put back on.

ASE doc

The EGR solenoid will not be connected to the DFI ECM as there is no emissions support in the ACCEL.

Fanatic1074

Ok, got it all buttoned back up and it started right away and kept running through a full heat cycle. Then i shut it off went and had lunch then i was going to take it for a test drive and it wouldnt start :'(. I tried a couple more times and a few times it acted like it was going to start but didnt. So i started testing I got 12v to the bat wire on the distributor, but no spark. Is the damn ICM fried? Its a complete brand new distributor, ICM, pickup, coil, rotor and cap all in one. I have a hard time believing that any of that stuff is bad already. Anyone else have any other ideas or should i just buy a new ICM, and if so where should i get it and what brand? I started looking and all i can find is the accel. Not sure i should go that route.

Thanks

obeymybird

iTrader: (4)

I don't have any experience with the Accel stuff crappy ECU maybe. Im running the holley HP efi and am very happy with it. Also seen you say you only had 20lb injectors on a 383 I would think you should be running 30lb one's instead.

Fanatic1074

Thanks for the input but the injectors are not the problem.

I took the ICM to Autozone and it tested bad, just got a replacement from them and now its working fine. So i got a bad brand new ICM. Seems to be pretty common with these 7 pin ICM's. Is there another brand thats better quality? All i can find is Accel.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Only GM or AC Delco ICMs for me. I use JY pulls before an aftermarket ICM.

RBob.

esc

iTrader: (6)

Wow, after posting a reply I noticed how old this post was. For some reason it popped up as a new post for me.
Didn't mean to beat a dead horse.