Thornburg

Howdy All,
So with my baby puffing a little blue smoke at start up, I am thinking that I can do one of the following.....
1)replace valve seals =$400
2) complete head refurbish, to factory specs =$700
3) buy different heads =$??????

So is he $300 worth taking them back to factory? If I'm going to spend cheddar, maybe get a little more bang out of my 5.0L, but how much would I be looking at????I mean to keep her as stock as possible, but maybe a cam and bigger throttle body and injectors. My question to you is this... Can I keep street drivability with these changes $1200-1300?
What are my options for head replacement that would gain horsepower? Do I have to change the valve train, not sure if my 1985 5.0L is solid or roller, so if someone could tell me that would be cool.
Thanks Everyone

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Replace valve seals:

http://www.autozone.com/external-eng...7_10232_18450/

And of course you'll need valve cover gaskets.

http://www.autozone.com/external-eng...artNumber=true

Not sure where " $400 " is coming from?

Just fix your car. Don't outsmart yourself over ... whatever.

mk1431

valve seals 50$
gaskets 20$
knowing your motor inside and out priceless

tom3

Pretty sure an 85 is a flat tappet engine. I wouldn't spend a lot of money hopping up the 305, get the seals replaced and go.

sabien

I agree. Just did mine on motor for maybe $30. Valve covers off, spark plugs out. Loosen rockers, pressurize cylinder,remove keeper/spring,replace seal, repeat times 15. Took about an hour and a half. No more smoke. For a couple hundred more than $400. you can buy aluminum heads with all the hardware.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Yeah those prices sounds REALLY high.

When I was working on cars for people I was only charging $110 to do valve seals on a SBC engine.

$700 to have the heads "refurbished" is a joke. That should be a crime...

You can look at competition products and get a head improvement kit with new one-piece, swirl polished stainless valves, new locks, seals, retainers, and springs for $120

The rest of the "refurbish" part would be to maybe mill the heads and do a valve seat job.. A machine shop will do that for you for around $100-150, and depending on the condition line or knurl (knurling not recommend) the valve guides or replace them for another $50-100

So at the very most $370 for you to buy the parts and have a machine shop do the needed machining to heads.

cardo0

Yes fix those vlv seals first. I like those FelPro seals but just a note is Summit prices are much better if u can get free shipping. No telling how good u are at adj the vlvs/lifters so replacing the vlv seals will show us if u havent ruined the cam and vlv train then u would be ready for something else like better heads. Not to breach here but so many new enthusiasts incorrectly adj their vlvs/lifters and end up wiping the cam, bending p-rods and worse.

What im saying is start with the vlv seals and if u work things out well enough then better heads are definitely possible. As for economy the vortec heads are the best deal south of $1000 but then u would need a new intake/base plate for your TPI. Quality aluminum heads are north of $1000. But dont bother to go there if u dont have the experience/skill to adj the vlvs.

Refurbishing heads can be as cheap as a $100 vlv grind to a $2000 porting with new vlvs and springs. A lot of off the shelf new heads w/all the upgrades can be had be had for less money, especially for the sbc. A realistic upgrade for your stock heads would be something like a $100 3-angle vlv grind, $100 LS6 vlv springs & retainers, and maybe a $200 pocket porting, also use some thin 0.015" steel shim head gaskets (FelPro 1094 i think) for like $30

Ok thats just the heads. Now a good flat tappet cam is under $300 but is much more work to install than an head swap. A good hyd roller cam will bust $1000 and not what you asking for here - but they can be a much better cam.

Ok i think thats enough eblaborating for now and hope this can help more than it hurts. U have plenty of options and much to consider. Start simple my friend.

Bubbajones_ya

Yeah, like others are saying, I'd just do the valve stem seals first. They really aren't all to bad to do yourself, and won't cost you much that way.

If you want to beef up your engine, a flat tappet 305 isn't really the best to spend that much money on either. Lots of people don't like the 305, but I don't think they are all too bad. I just put a bunch of work into mine, but I have a hydraulic roller engine.

If you wanted to get a new cam and some other goodies, being that yours is a flat tappet you won't have as many good choices.

The real big issue is once you get into changing parts like that, tuning is mandatory to notice any performance at all. If you don't tune, you could (and most likely will) lose performance if you change things too drastically.

Doing a cam, then headwork, seals etc and adding a tune on top will cost you a bit of money, and that's doing most of that yourself. If you have a shop do it, it will cost quite a lot and you'll most likely be disappointed with what you get if you stay with your current setup.

I'm all for doing work yourself though, it is pretty fun and saves you tons of money (just not time). You may have to plan on having the car not running for a few weeks though if you've never done anything that involved and want to be cautious.

skinny z

Wouldn't it be prudent to check on the condition of the guides? What would be the point of new seals if the guides are toast?

Thornburg

Great advice everyone thank you!!!! I think I could do the seals myself, and as far as setting gap, well I can only assume there is a "standard" then fine tuning from that point. Never have done them, I think I would have a PRO work with me on the first cylinder and then watch me do the others, to make sure I don't smoke the cam or bend a pushrods. Everyone says this job is super easy, and I did watch a YouTube on the process, not brain surgery just that I've never done it. Skinny Z makes a good point about the guides, I would not know where to begin, other than reading, to know if any were out of spec. I want to boost power, but don't want to spend more time tuning and chasing down gremlins, than I would driving and enjoying her. So I have some decisions to ponder. Besides this old girl will never run 11's so why not just keep her fresh and crisp.....
I know my mechanic, and he might let me watch and learn and complete the seal replacement at a reduced cost, win-win for both of us.

cardo0

Good plan! Its kinda rare enthusiast will listen like you. Summit racing has a good video but its best to get help the first time. Terms like "base circle" and "zero lash" cannot be guessed at.

Good luck with your upgrades.

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

Keep it simple.
Just replace the seals and heed skinny's comment in post #9 above.

Thornburg

How can I verify the guides are good or bad???

skinny z

The method I've used in the past the involves removing the heads however....
reasonable results should be attainable with the heads installed as well.
The heads off method has the head inverted on your workbench (and with the valve spring removed) the valve is lifted off the seat by about an inch. Then the lateral movement of the valve head, as it's pushed from side to side against the guide, is measured with a dial indicator. Anything beyond .030" is generally considered to out of the service range.
If you do the math, similar results could be achieved with the head on the engine. With the valve spring removed, allow the valve to drop into the cylinder about an inch (careful with that). Measure the deflection of the valve stem about an inch above the guide as you push the top of the stem from side to side. That would simulate about the same geometry as the head removed method.
All of that said, I'm sure that others out there may have another way of going about it.
I'll be going this same process this off season as I need to determine how much worse, if any, my guides have become over the last 30 000 miles. I'll compare the heads on method with the heads off way I've done it in the past.

Thornburg

Well that makes sense Skinny Z, I will have to see if me or my mechanic can perform that test. I'm just wondering how much is involved with guide replacement, maybe just do it as a precaution. The more I think about it, refurbishing the heads is the best route at least I will know more about the engine pulling the heads.
For someone that has never done this before, what things are a MUST KNOW for head removal? I have good tools, just no experience.... Maybe penetrating oil on the studs the night before?? Maybe a torch to heat the fasteners? Looking for anything anybody can offer.
Thanks

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Pulling heads on a sbc is very simple really.

Biggest issues would be....
exhaust manifold bolts breaking... Spray those with PB blaster for a couple days before you are ready to pull heads.
Keeping track of all the wiring plugs, where each wire goes.. Use colored tape, masking tape and digital pictures to keep track of all of that.

When you unplug a wire.. Code each end with a letter or number or colored tape... So you can look and see Letter A and A goes together, D and D goes together, etc.

Bag and tag all of your bolts... Buy a box of cheap zipper bags, pull the bolts from X part and put them in a bag and with a sharpie write on that bag what those bolts came out of.

There is 17 bolts holding each head, do not try to pry the head off until you count and make sure you removed 17 bolts... The couple in the corners can be over looked easy.

Thornburg

Wow that is some great advice about marking the electrical connectors and baggin/tagin the fasteners too!!! I'm slowly getting the courage to try this myself and save a few hundred bucks!!