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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
A friend of mine gave me a bottle and it says it can be used for leak proof seals for threaded assemblies. I was going to use it for intake, head bolts and waterpump bolts. I also understand there is a thread compound for head bolts and the like?
I have used it many times over the years, but never on threads. It is, as the name suggests, a gasket shellac. I brushed it on both sides of cork (dating myself) valve cover gaskets for an improved seal. I liked it, but it's definitely '50s technology.
That's the stuff from like World War 1 or maybe even the Spanish-American War that was responsible all those years for cars not making it to the 100k mile mark until well into the 1970s because of leaks.
It is The Dung, by modern standards. Thank him kindly for offering his help and send it to a museum.
Yes there is a thread compound for head bolts and such. Real modern stuff. Came out in the last 40 yrs or so. It's Loctite/Permatex (same company, 2 brand names, can't recall which name is on it) "high-temp automotive thread sealer with Teflon". Comes on a card in the sealant section. Use it on ALL bolt threads that must seal.
Use Permatex 200 (brown gooey gunk that doesn't harden, UNLIKE shellac) on water pump gaskets. Thin schmear of Right Stuff or "Ultra" rtv around the water ports of intake gaskets. Use FelPro blue head gaskets, no sealer on any part of those.
IMHO it works great, maybe too good until it don't anymore.
It cures very hard, and will "glue" or bond the parts together making it very hard to get things back apart, but cause it cures so hard, it can't flex or expend with heat or movement so after a while it tends to crack and leak
If you're one of the Big 4 in the 60s, and your car has a 3,000 mile warranty and you charge people for fixing leaks after that, then HELL YEAH it works. Keeps service bays FULL. Plus, makes people get sick of their cars and get rid of them, or just forget to put some fluid or other in them and they ruin them, so they come back and buy more.
If that's what you mean by "work", then that's the stuff for you.
If on the other hand you want to build your motor and have it last without any further attention, then NO, it does not.
yes I have used it an it an will always be in my garage it has it's place to use it. there are better more expensive sealers out there. it's messy for sure an does not come off easily. I used it last on an a motorcycle oil drain plug spilled half the bottle on the card board I was using to keep from getting it on the floor my work jacket ended up with a bunch on the sleeve an 5 months later it's almost all fallen off in dust. I loosing my respect for this stuff now as I thought it would never come off. Dan
I have used it for 20 years and it works well. Most people it will get all thick and gummy in the bottle before they use it all. In that condition it WON'T work any more and is, IMHO, the primary reason people have problems with it. The other reason is that people glob it on like it's RTV or something. DON'T do that. "Paint" the threads and you're good to go.
I've used it on head bolts and threaded fittings about a bezillion times and not a single one of them has ever leaked. NOT ONE. And, yes, I can still take it apart again 10 years later if I need to. Yes, it "hardens" to a certain extent, but it is in no way a thread locker. I would say it doesn't harden anywhere near as much as, say, Permatex #1 (hardening). Not quite as soft as Permatex #2 (non-hardening).
I have a low-buck 350 sitting on my engine stand RIGHT NOW now that was assembled with IHGS on various things (including head bolts) that's going to go Lemons racing later this year.
One of the things I like about it is that it's impervious to ALL automotive fluids- oil, gas, coolant, trans fluid, etc. You don't have to remember "if it touches oil I need the blue bottle, if it's coolant I need the red bottle".
I have to say yes there are better products out there but, I can tell you from multiple personal uses on multiple water pumps, thermostats, all kinds of applications with gaskets and I have never had any of them leak. I also have to say I didn't wait very long either. I it was a water pump I waited as long as it took to put it all back together. Just put a nice little bit on both sides of he mating surfaces place the gasket on the engine side place whatever example:water pump on figure the bolts fill with fluid and you done down the road you go. You will smell it the first drive but it should go away after that. So I don't know how anyone had a leak after using this but I never had anything leak not even 90,000 miles later. I still use it to this day. More so bc there's no 24hour waiting period. They say to wait but I never have and have had zero issues. Just my $0.02
I have used it for 20 years and it works well. Most people it will get all thick and gummy in the bottle before they use it all. In that condition it WON'T work any more and is, IMHO, the primary reason people have problems with it. The other reason is that people glob it on like it's RTV or something. DON'T do that. "Paint" the threads and you're good to go.
I've used it on head bolts and threaded fittings about a bezillion times and not a single one of them has ever leaked. NOT ONE. And, yes, I can still take it apart again 10 years later if I need to. Yes, it "hardens" to a certain extent, but it is in no way a thread locker. I would say it doesn't harden anywhere near as much as, say, Permatex #1 (hardening). Not quite as soft as Permatex #2 (non-hardening)..............
..............One of the things I like about it is that it's impervious to ALL automotive fluids- oil, gas, coolant, trans fluid, etc. You don't have to remember "if it touches oil I need the blue bottle, if it's coolant I need the red bottle".
Being a "natural" material, like cork or natural rubber, it's susceptible to the attack of heat and modern petrochemicals as found in cars in 2020. While it might have been "adequate" and maybe even "state of the art" at one time, when expectations were FAR lower and substitutes not yet invented and the environment it lives in FAR more benign, it is GROSSLY INFERIOR to any kind of modern sealant. Like any other rosin-based substance, it dries to a hard crinkly consistency that crumbles to dust if disturbed, and melts at a relatively low temperature. Back in the 50s and 60s, cars were expected to be at or beyond end-of-life at 100,000 miles (and DAMN FEW even made it that far), and people thought it completely natural to have to change gaskets and stuff on a regular basis; but there's NO WAY that would be considered acceptable today. It's simply OBSOLETE. About like pouring sperm whale oil into your crankcase, and FOR THE SAME REASONS.
The "active ingredient", CAS # 8050-09-7... https://www.chemicalbook.com/Chemica..._CB1185171.htm Described as "a brittle yellow or brown resin..." It's the same thing I use on the hair of my violin bow, which I have to buy a new supply of from time to time, because it comes in a little "cake" thing that if I drop it, it shatters to fragments and dust. You can see your local symphony orchestra violinists using it during concerts, if you pay careful attention to them surreptitiously applying it. "Johnny rosin up yer bow..." (Charlie Daniels)
All the other ingredients are highly volatile solvents, specifically 3 alcohols and a light ketone, ALL of which evaporate rapidly at room temperature, let alone any higher. Note IN PARTICULAR that 2 of the alcohols they use IN THE PRODUCT are ethanol and methanol; BOTH OF WHICH are found in pump gasoline in 2020 (though maybe not in 1949). It DOES NOT therefore remain "flexible" to any useful degree if left to dry, and will in fact wash off readily in modern fuel. Guaranteed to fail in every detail.
It is GARBAGE for modern engines, in 2020. It is SOLD because certain people still BUY it, not because it's competitive in any useful manner, or because there's ANY application for which it's "best", or even "better" or or really even "suitable", in 2020; or because it's "withstood the test of time". Some people's preferences may have "withstood the test" though not of time, more like, of reality; doesn't make it A Good Idea, let alone The Right Thing To Do, and never under any circumstances to be confused with The Best unless you're a shady garage looking for insidious ways to generate repeat business to keep your bays full. Do not use it, choose something more suitable; unless of course you're looking for period-correct materials for your 1938 Hupmobile or your DC-3, and want to preserve the aroma of pine trees and the fondly remembered tendency toward leaks. As They said about the 3, "if it ain't leakin', it ain't flyin'."
Last edited by sofakingdom; 07-27-2020 at 08:42 AM.
I agree. Complete garbage. For a universal gasket sealant - check out Hylomar. It's a polyester that was invented for Rolls Royce turbine engines. It stays flexible forever, and parts can be dissembled and resembled as many times as you like - it's like Velcro for gaskets.
Wow; now there's a real blast from the past. Used this stuff back in the '60s, but moved on when better products appeared. I'm a bit surprised that it's still on the market.
But in this current PC climate, they're probably gonna have to change the name to "Native American Gasket Shellac."
I agree. Complete garbage. For a universal gasket sealant - check out Hylomar. It's a polyester that was invented for Rolls Royce turbine engines. It stays flexible forever, and parts can be dissembled and resembled as many times as you like - it's like Velcro for gaskets.
05-25-2016, 10:01 PM
The MSDS says it all. 