mynameisfrank89

im gonna run over my symptoms and what i did so far
whats done to the car and alittle info on what was going on before this no start issue

[symptoms]- 1. i turn the key and nothing happens (you know when you forget to press the clutch in)
2.starter doesnt make a single noise
3.inf res light flashs (sometimes the seat belt light to)
3. non of the lights on my car work at all besides the ones i stated in #2
i mean non headlight or brake lights

[things ive done to trouble shoot]-
1.sent my starter to get tested and its good
2.clean all the connections between the starter and battery and tighteng them
3.checked all fuses,relays and fusable links there all good
4.checked vats and it wasent plugged in it had a ghetto bypass that was a literal wire coming from one prong that went right in the other prong i plugged the actual wire back in

[whats done to the car]- completely striped only carpet console dash(behind the dash is striped and has no air ducts,heatercore just wires) and seats
the car has only power steering and brakes it has a 350 vortec swap and i kept the tbi battery is in trunk it has a kill switch (maybe yall could tell my something from this info idk im desperate)

[before this issue]- ok so i wasent getting spark or spray and i couldnt find out why however the starter would crank the motor over i just wasent geting fuel or spark. long behold my silly self plugged the knock sensor (i think) into the coil and then i plugged the coil into the disturbutor and bam spark and spray so a couple days of me trying to get the timing right and i did i went ahead and decided putting on headers would be a good idea so i got that situated and then i wired some halos up (just individual halos not the full headlights) and even tho i had them wired to the battery cable and used the same ground as the other components i started to get light issues my headlights weren't turning on and turn signals didn't work (still didnt turn the car over for a bit) then i gave the halos there own grounds and my lights stoped working altogether and then i went to try to start it and here i am very desperate and very sad please save me! whoever figures this out id be honored to have your signature on my car as a thanks to all the people that helped me with my first build if its any help ill attach a pic of the diagram i used to wirethe halos mind i didnt use the a fuse in my system

mynameisfrank89

feel free to ask for pictures of anything that may help you help me figure out my issue i will send them

henryd3

iTrader: (128)

what's going on with the security light when you turn the key?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Sounds rather like a fusible link.

VATS could be a problem; but get power back in the car in all the places it's supposed to be, FIRST, before messing with that.

mynameisfrank89

I get no security light anymore when i turn the key and yea i said the same thing sounds like a fusable link but apparently there good any way to test them that you prefer?

paulo57509

No where in the original post did you mention that you checked the condition of the battery; state of charge and it's ability to hold a charge. This would be the first thing I would do.

mynameisfrank89

My bad it is a perfectly good battery i try cranking the car at 12v its a good battery

zed-028

Earth might be a good place to start. follow the earths from the battery, there should be a decent grounding strap from the neg terminal to the motor somewhere (prob the alternator)

grab a test light and start looking around to where you DO have power. attach one side to the neg terminal and start poking and prodding things while the key is on. (one side of the coil etc)

dont think just because you have 12v at the battery that things will work. plenty of batteries die in the a$$ without any warning whatsoever and look fine on a multimeter.

mynameisfrank89

I'll try when I get home

mynameisfrank89

yea your right ive seen batteries die for no reason idk what i was thinking but my battery is in my trunk so i have it grounded there i used to have grounding issues and then i moved it another spot and it fixed my grounding issues(this was before the swap i made sure it was tight btw) i heard theirs a strap that attaches from the motor to the body and thats suppose to be important if im correct? if so shoul i make sure it is tightend?

mynameisfrank89

also any wires or grounds underneath the dash i should look for> and their locations would be great

zed-028

There is no such thing as too many earth straps. and yes that earth strap is incredibly important.

Theoretically as long as its a bare metal spot you've earthed it to (scrub the paint off to make sure then it should be ok. might pay to run an extra earth or 2 to from the body to the motor somewhere. should be an accessory bolt somewhere you can use. I must say though im not a huge fan of primary battery relocation, secondary/dual batteries are fine to have located elsewhere. In saying that a relocated main battery should still function properly as long as the install was decent.

odd/possibly dumb question, but have you tried moving it back to the engine bay to see if your problem disappears?

mynameisfrank89

see the thing is i took another battery from my dads focus and it was at a 13v and i had started the car so the battery was decent and i have a connection in the bay to charge the battery so i hooked up the battery there with jumpers and i had my other battery on (at 12v) and only thing that happened was my starter actualy clicked and made a noise other then that the relocation can be done a bit better as far as my wires used but ill check my earth strap as im not sure if it is bolted to the motor however as you can see i wasent even sure if it was important so i havent even touched it im just so confused as to why it was turning over and what happend to make it not turn over anymore cause i didnt do anything huge it sounds like a fusible link but anyone no why the lights dont work? i heard it was because the starter solenoid wasent supplying the power? making it the fusable link right?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Because no power is reaching the headlight switch. Possibly, because a fusible link is blown.

See my signature for a helpful mental discipline to keep in front of yourself at all times while troubleshooting.

mynameisfrank89

How would you test a fusible link?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Ohmmeter

Or test light

mynameisfrank89

would i just poke the other end of the link? power wont wont go to the other end of the fuse right?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Precisely.

You'll be looking for the thing that keeps power from flowing toward the car.

ASE doc

There is a separate fuse link to the light switch from the starter B+ post. There is another for the ignition switch power supply. It's not uncommon for a fuse link to break inside the insulation so that it's hard to tell from looking at it that a fuse link is blown. The insulation is a special high temp material that resists burning. We used to test fuse links by simply pulling on them to see if they stretch. If they stretch, the wire is broken.

It's interesting that during the process of installing lights, you lost your car's factory lighting. From the diagram you posted, there is no apparent connection between your installed lights and the factory lighting. Yet somehow, you took your lights and T/S out. I guess you know that the T/S were originally in the position where you installed what look to be HIDs?

The T/S flasher is a very simple thermal reed switch. It is closed until the current through it heats up the reed and it opens, then cools and closes again, then the cycle repeats. This creates the flashing of you signal lights. If the current isn't right, the T/S either won't flash or they'll flash fast. If you're using some alternate bulb type in the T/S positions, you may have this kind of issue. You need to look back at what you've changed and how it affected the lighting circuits.

If you're trying to diagnose the lighting and power distribution circuits, you really need to have the factory wiring diagrams for these circuits. Otherwise how do you know what you're even looking at? The Helms Publishing GM Factory Service Manual is the very best there is for that car. It includes an Electrical Diagnosis Supplement with full color diagrams for each system. I wish I had this for every car I diagnose.

The way I test any power supply circuit is by activating the load(turn the lights on and/or turn the key on), then test for power at the power supply circuit to the light switch or ignition switch. I recommend a 12volt test light. Again, you really should purchase a good manual with complete wiring diagrams.

For now, I'll tell you that the power supply circuit to both the light switch and ignition switch are red. GM uses metric wire sizing in these model years. They number the large power wires size 2. They are equivalent to about an AWG 12.

mynameisfrank89

real quick but those are not halos headlight let my explain i dont have headlights there at all this is just bucket that held the headlight and the small square thing that held the headlight in place what i did was put a screen in the square thing glued it and slapped it on the halos you see are just purely leds that sit in the bucket that i modified like a hell cat intake you know its kinda hard to tell but from what i know im the only one with this setup ever i just thought it be cool thing to do unique ill get pics for you guys to see but found out my earth ground wasent connected at all ill show pics of that to but were does the stock earth ground go can anyone show me? its werid that it turned over before without it

mynameisfrank89

thanks doc that was a good explanation and ill get on that once i get the car to run i really appericate it and i would buy every manual possible for my car if i could but i cant do you remember back when you were 15-16 and didn't have a job and only got money hear and there? thats basically my whole spending plan till i get a job like i always say to my friends theirs only so much i can do with no money

mynameisfrank89

heres the pics you can see hows its a screen and that in one of the pics you can see my earth ground just chillin XD were would i bolt this end to? idek how i missed this during the swap im speacial

ASE doc

Is the large cable in the photo the neg cable from the battery? If so, it needs to be attached to a clean spot on the engine block. I like the engine mount bracket bolt holes for that. There should also be some spot on the lower front of the block where you can attach it.

mynameisfrank89

the large cable are my spark plug wires and i have a trunk mounted battery so the ground is in the trunk with it (which) is a good ground cause i had issues with a ground back there before and i moved it and it cleared up that

zed-028

mate if you've got no power i wouldn't go as far as to just assume the ground and connections are good. something is clearly amiss.

post a few pics of the battery install in the rear, the grounds, cable sizes etc.

we might then be able to see whats goin in back there.

hockeyman48

Does the 12 volt positive cable run to the starter post as it did when the battery was in the engine bay? Run a temporary # 10 awg wire from battery negative to the engine block and to the front support sheet metal and see if the lights now work or any other accessory that previously did not work.If it allows some items to now operate, it is probably a negative ground connection problem to frame at battery area Do not try to start the car as this wire is too small to ground the starter current. This may be the issue if the fuse links are not the culprit.Good Luck.

mynameisfrank89

Im just so confused as this setup worked perfectly fine before with no issues this is what im gunna do im gunna try to make my way to the junkyard this weekend snag the stock postive and negitive cable from this one camaro and while im there im gunna cut out the 3 fusible links and take the earth grounds off a couple of cars after that ima put 4 earth grounds on front left and right head to body and rear of head right and left i heard you can never have to many ground straps so if that doesnt work then i will hook the the battery like it was stock and if that dont work then im gunna replace the fusible links does this sound good plan to you guys? im working with like no money trust me i dont mind spending money on this car im not trying to cheap out i just put in three aplications so im workin on it ill get back to you guys when i can go to the jnkyard feel free to alter my plan and tell me if theirs something speacial i should get

mynameisfrank89

let me go into details on how my lights stoped working after installing the halos i had shared the front two grounds were i belive its the headlights ground with the leds and i had also shared a ground for the switch with a ground under the dash the power was sent directly from the battery cable and once i tried to turn the headlights on thats when i knew something was up like the right headlight would be fine and the left would be dim and then my ts lights started acting werid like the headlight switch would be closed but when i switched the halos lights like one or two front lights would turn on instead so i turned it off. the next day i switched grounds so the leds could have there own grounds and then the leds worked fine but the lights never worked again

zed-028

Forget the lights for a while, disconnect/isolate the lights and go back to trying to figure out the starting problems. Get the main issue resolved and then play with the lights.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Excellent advice.

Instead of all that junkyard and cutting and adding and whatnot, I'd suggest simply finding the problem, which is most likely nothing more than a simple blown fusible link, and just getting a new one and replacing it.

The car worked fine the way it was built, from that day until the day the one thing that broke, broke. Which is to say, from showroom new, until it had already become an antique (as it now is). Once that one broken thing is fixed, the car will work fine again. Go find it and fix it. That's all it takes. All that other brings no value to the whole proposition.

ASE doc

I see the spark plug wires. I'm talking about the large cable that looks to be cut off at the terminal and has the smaller wires along with a ground strap attached to it. Of course you have the truck mounted battery grounded to the body. You also need to have the engine block grounded to the body in order to complete the ground side circuit.

mynameisfrank89

like i said im going to attach that ground soon the earth ground it was at one point attched to a hvac pipe?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like it might be a good idea to put the battery back in its original location, at least for the time being.

Who moved it? Why? When? Has the car ever worked since? How bad are the original parts of the car, where it came from, hacked up?

mynameisfrank89

Ok doc that is a clamp that clamped on the hvac pipe it was a ground not a big cable and the battery was put back there by me to clean up the bay it wasent done as well it it should of but it did work really well before

ASE doc

Okay, the ground attached to an HVAC line must have been a heater core ground intended to prevent electrolysis. I'm not any less confused about what you have done with the vehicle's power and ground circuits.

My advice to you is study the factory wiring diagrams. A basic understanding of the principles of electricity and automotive electrical systems would be helpful. You need to start out with understanding what the engineers were thinking when they designed the vehicle's electrical system. Then, you can work from there to understand what affect any changes might have.

I find in my own engineering efforts, as I redesign the systems in my project car, to either handle more load or to work just the way I want, that it isn't as easy as it looks. There are often things that we don't think of when we first lay out a design. From induced noise, to voltage loss, to overload of some part of the system. These are the same issues that the factory engineers had to work out when they designed the car in the first place. Whatever criticism we may have of the OEM, we have to give credit to the efforts of the engineers that created a vehicle that works pretty well, with generally very good reliability, as long as it's taken proper care of.

Anytime we start changing their design for whatever reason, we take on the responsibility for working through the problems we create. I think it's vital that we have at least a working knowledge of electrical systems before we take this task on. How else will we ever get to a successful conclusion if we don't even know what we did wrong in the first place?

mynameisfrank89

update ok doc i get it now i need to study this stuff and still no money but is their soppose to be power coming from the ignition to the starter when i turn the key cause no power comes to or from that purgle wire attached the solenoid? i tested it with a simple light tester and nothing possible ignitions switch? where is the ground for that i have so many questions im sure its just something stupid

senior bear

HI just a thort. get a good battery .a decent set of jump leads .conect negative directly to engine block scrape paint of so you know it good.conect poz directly to starter terminal .see if any life in it then .

mynameisfrank89

another update guys so my dad picked up a new postive cable and i hooked up the neg to its stock spot on the head then hoooked the mini ground on that up to the body (cleaned it before i attached it) put positive on starter (aka moved it back to stock spot up front) grabed a battery from our saturn which i started before i pulled the battery and BAM same **** my dad jumped the starter and starter just clicks (he jumped it cause when i turn the key nothing happens aka theres no power going to the ignition wire *little purple wire") i did get the starter tested and it passed so im thinking it turns but when it comes under load it cant really turn it i used a breaker bar and made sure the motor wasent locked up so im just gunna buy a new starter a buddy of mine ownes a stser and altenator shop so hes guna hook me up with mini high torque starter for 50$ real cool place if you live in detriot check it out its called pac power

zed-028

what position is your distributor in?

when i replaced mine, i was a whole plug out of timing. wouldnt even crank

mynameisfrank89

OHHh you may be right i never even thought of that after i replace the starter ill **** with the distributor becuase i did replace the distrubutor awhile back

zed-028

If you want to get the position back to factory, find top dead centre on cylinder 1, pull the distributor out, and when seating it point the rotor at the rear 1/3 of the valve cover, when it seats in, the rotor should point at cylinder 1 - thats the factory position.

put the cap back on, and crank/move it around a little til she fires.

If you want to do it the easy/half assed way, find top dead centre, look at the rotor with the cap off, put the cap back on with the lead for cylinder 1 directly over the top of the rotor position.