Building a 390 SBC with Trickflow heads, F1 Procharger, AFRs worth the swap?
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Car: Building LS3, T56 Z28
Engine: LS3
Transmission: T-56
Axle/Gears: Moser/ 4.11
Building a 390 SBC with Trickflow heads, F1 Procharger, AFRs worth the swap?
I had this engine built over 10 years ago.
Back then I was much younger and had less cash so I went with the cheapest Al. heads I could find. Trickflow Kenny Dewinter (sp) heads. They don't offer them anymore, but they are basically a run of the mill Al. head.
I am trying to build the car back up from the ground up with much more attention to detail and high quality parts, for a more reliable, powerful and better running car.
Motor only has about 3,000 miles on it since its last rebuild, but with it sitting for so long I want it gone thru before pumping boost thru it.
Since I will be doing that, I want to go thru all the other components as well.
Brings me to the heads. I see AFRs on all the nice builds.
Is it worth swapping up to something from them for my build?
The car will be used to cruise to work when it is nice out and go to car shows. That's it really. Basically the same thing I would do with it, if it was a new stock vette or something. No racing or anything like that. At least not that I can imagine now.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Back then I was much younger and had less cash so I went with the cheapest Al. heads I could find. Trickflow Kenny Dewinter (sp) heads. They don't offer them anymore, but they are basically a run of the mill Al. head.
I am trying to build the car back up from the ground up with much more attention to detail and high quality parts, for a more reliable, powerful and better running car.
Motor only has about 3,000 miles on it since its last rebuild, but with it sitting for so long I want it gone thru before pumping boost thru it.
Since I will be doing that, I want to go thru all the other components as well.
Brings me to the heads. I see AFRs on all the nice builds.
Is it worth swapping up to something from them for my build?
The car will be used to cruise to work when it is nice out and go to car shows. That's it really. Basically the same thing I would do with it, if it was a new stock vette or something. No racing or anything like that. At least not that I can imagine now.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
#2
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Re: Building a 390 SBC with Trickflow heads, F1 Procharger, AFRs worth the swap?
Maybe not so advice as personal experience:
Even at only 3000 miles you may find that the heads needs to be refreshed. That would depend (almost) entirely on how well the valve train was configured when the top half was reassembled. I've personally owned and witnessed more than a few perfectly good cylinder heads in need of new guides after limited miles because the valve train geometry was not addressed when the new heads were installed.
If that's the case, then new heads are a cost effective approach to a repair. Stepping up in terms of performance (as in CFM) is a bonus.
Now, if it were me, and funds allowed, I'd go for the AFRs (or a similarly spec'd head). If a compression test and a leak down test show that the short block is still sound, then the short block can remain providing that the compression isn't out of line for a boosted application.
Even at only 3000 miles you may find that the heads needs to be refreshed. That would depend (almost) entirely on how well the valve train was configured when the top half was reassembled. I've personally owned and witnessed more than a few perfectly good cylinder heads in need of new guides after limited miles because the valve train geometry was not addressed when the new heads were installed.
If that's the case, then new heads are a cost effective approach to a repair. Stepping up in terms of performance (as in CFM) is a bonus.
Now, if it were me, and funds allowed, I'd go for the AFRs (or a similarly spec'd head). If a compression test and a leak down test show that the short block is still sound, then the short block can remain providing that the compression isn't out of line for a boosted application.
#3
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Re: Building a 390 SBC with Trickflow heads, F1 Procharger, AFRs worth the swap?
If you dont really have a power goal or et baseline to achieve then just freshen up the trickflows with a good valvejob, resurface and good springs for the cam. Let boost make your power but on a stock block sbc you have enough head to push the bottom caps out
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Car: 87 Iroc 5.7,67 SS Camaro,90 Formula
Engine: 355 AFR Superram LPE 219
Transmission: 700r4 3000 stall 4spd 5 spd
Axle/Gears: 3.27
Re: Building a 390 SBC with Trickflow heads, F1 Procharger, AFRs worth the swap?
Pro-Filer are alot less and are a great head, but like Orr said....
Last edited by mrestrictrplate; 01-18-2017 at 01:52 PM. Reason: spelling
#5
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Car: Building LS3, T56 Z28
Engine: LS3
Transmission: T-56
Axle/Gears: Moser/ 4.11
Re: Building a 390 SBC with Trickflow heads, F1 Procharger, AFRs worth the swap?
Awesome advice here!
For piece of mind I was going to have the motor torn apart anyways, checked, a put back together. When they are doing that, I will have them re-work the heads a bit. They have CNC milled chambers already, so that's a plus I think.
I plan on having the motor dyno tuned NA, then under boost. I want to be able to simply plop it in the engine bay, hook up gas, throttle, trans, etc... and be done. That would be the final step, after I paint the car.
Looks like I will stick with my trickflows. Like you guys have said, I am not aiming for any particular #s, but I would like to make sure I have at least 500 RWHP. That was my dream for the car 15 years ago. Sort of a promise I need to keep to my teenage self!
I hope the forged bottom end, Trickflows, FMIC, and F1 spinning enough to make low teens psi should do the trick. Going thru a CSU billet Aerosol carb.
For piece of mind I was going to have the motor torn apart anyways, checked, a put back together. When they are doing that, I will have them re-work the heads a bit. They have CNC milled chambers already, so that's a plus I think.
I plan on having the motor dyno tuned NA, then under boost. I want to be able to simply plop it in the engine bay, hook up gas, throttle, trans, etc... and be done. That would be the final step, after I paint the car.
Looks like I will stick with my trickflows. Like you guys have said, I am not aiming for any particular #s, but I would like to make sure I have at least 500 RWHP. That was my dream for the car 15 years ago. Sort of a promise I need to keep to my teenage self!
I hope the forged bottom end, Trickflows, FMIC, and F1 spinning enough to make low teens psi should do the trick. Going thru a CSU billet Aerosol carb.
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Car: 87 Iroc 5.7,67 SS Camaro,90 Formula
Engine: 355 AFR Superram LPE 219
Transmission: 700r4 3000 stall 4spd 5 spd
Axle/Gears: 3.27
Re: Building a 390 SBC with Trickflow heads, F1 Procharger, AFRs worth the swap?
A million rwhp is nice but if your combo is off or your suspension won't handle or hook you will get beat or not be happy with your combo. You don't race a dyno remember...
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#8
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Car: Building LS3, T56 Z28
Engine: LS3
Transmission: T-56
Axle/Gears: Moser/ 4.11
Re: Building a 390 SBC with Trickflow heads, F1 Procharger, AFRs worth the swap?
Nice to hear that Orr...
My real goal at the start of all this was 650 RWHP. But I have been lowering my goal as time has gone by for some reason. I mean, the setup will make what it is going to make I guess.
When the time comes I will post all about it for sure.
I am going to start a build thread soon to track the build up of the car. Mini-tubs are done as well as trunk moded to hold fuel cell outside the car. Would love to get advice as I go thru the whole thing.
I have a tube K-member, TQ arm, Moser 12 bolt with 4.11s and all the other stuff. Big change will be that I want to do air ride so I can drive normal and drop it at shows. Also lift to get out of my driveway (steep hill). More of a need than a want as I see it.
My real goal at the start of all this was 650 RWHP. But I have been lowering my goal as time has gone by for some reason. I mean, the setup will make what it is going to make I guess.
When the time comes I will post all about it for sure.
I am going to start a build thread soon to track the build up of the car. Mini-tubs are done as well as trunk moded to hold fuel cell outside the car. Would love to get advice as I go thru the whole thing.
I have a tube K-member, TQ arm, Moser 12 bolt with 4.11s and all the other stuff. Big change will be that I want to do air ride so I can drive normal and drop it at shows. Also lift to get out of my driveway (steep hill). More of a need than a want as I see it.
#10
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Car: Building LS3, T56 Z28
Engine: LS3
Transmission: T-56
Axle/Gears: Moser/ 4.11
Re: Building a 390 SBC with Trickflow heads, F1 Procharger, AFRs worth the swap?
Nice to hear that from someone with as much experience as you Orr.
I am sure i will have many questions as the project progresses.
While we are talking about power, do you think the F1 is too much blower? Would a D1 fit my needs better? I sort of stumbled onto this F1 for a steal so i jumped on it. Now wondering if i should have waited and got the D1 I thought the car needed in the first place.
I am sure i will have many questions as the project progresses.
While we are talking about power, do you think the F1 is too much blower? Would a D1 fit my needs better? I sort of stumbled onto this F1 for a steal so i jumped on it. Now wondering if i should have waited and got the D1 I thought the car needed in the first place.
#11
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Re: Building a 390 SBC with Trickflow heads, F1 Procharger, AFRs worth the swap?
It will work fine. D1 would do it as well but likely require more blower rpm which means more potential for belt slip and harder on the crank imo
If its a gm oem block i wouldnt push it much beyond 600-650 whp anyway. Both blowers will do that
We are trying to make 800whp with a d1 on a 408 lsx vette soon. Interesting build
If its a gm oem block i wouldnt push it much beyond 600-650 whp anyway. Both blowers will do that
We are trying to make 800whp with a d1 on a 408 lsx vette soon. Interesting build