MiZZiE

i have my camaro up for sale/trade and gotten many offers, this is one of them that has me interested but also leaves me with a few questions, the car is located a while away from me so it's not like i can test drive it untill we we're to meet up. i'm interested in the car but i figured i'd ask you guys what you think of the numbers...

the car the person is interested in trading me for my camaro is an 88 camaro iroc-z. with a 1986 rebuilt (5k miles ago) 400 smallblock .480 lift crane cam & lifters. Holley contender intake, holley double pumper 650 carb. inline electric fuel pump, 4:10 posi rear end. flepro gaskets, HEI distributer, new cap/coil/rotor, etc. owner says it has a stage 2 or 3 shift kit that the previous owner installed. 160º thermostat. rear drag shocks, new brakes,starter etc. a/c components removed... theres a few other things done to it but you get the idea... (also if any of these are wrong.. i just quoted the owner, so don't hold it to me LOL)

now the owner said he never dyno'd it but assumes it's somewhere in the 400rwhp range and ran 10's before new cam and assumes it will be in the high 9's now.

just wondering what you guys think that block is really putting down in HP and tourqe (approximate) and what it would run in the 1/8 and 1/4 mile tracks. and with that 4:10 and all upgrades would it still be daily driverable/highway driveable (owner says yes) is there anything i should look out for in the motor? the body of the car needs some TLC, all the money is in the motor. which i'm willing to do some body work and paint it if the motor is really doing those kind of numbers.

thanks,
-Mike

91drag

iirc the last year for a 400 was 1980 which they could have made a mistake on the year. i would have to see the timeslips to belive 10's in the 1\4 . but eveything else looks alright. wont be real streetable with the gears

MiZZiE

i was thinking that with the gears as well, what i want is something i can take to the track, but not on a trailer if you know what i mean- not really as a daily driver but a weekend driver would be nice, the guy says its set up to run the track but it's not hacked up like a drag car, meaning everything interior etc is there so idk how it could run 10s as well...

about them stopping in 1980 i'm glad i came here and asked you guys, i will bring this up with the guy and see what he says.he seems like a straight up person but on the internet you never know till you actually meet up to test drive the car and find out it runs slower than my stock L03, lol. but back on topic... how about the estimated 400rwhp i think this is a little exagerated, but i could be wrong.

i don't want this car as a daily driver, but i want it to be able to drive to the track and around town on nice days, i dont want a strictly trailer queen track car or i'd build one lol. so with the gears you don't think i could do this?

thanks and everyones input is welcome please!

-Mike

91drag

as far as driving to and from the track might not be too bad as long as its not real far

Ironmahn

Sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors, here's an example: car weights 3600 lbs w/ driver, 400 rwhp, 4.11 gears, 28 in. tire, and 5550 rpm through the traps = 11.59 @ 112.58. Is this w/ stock heads as well? Seems like buyer beware to me, I'd be a little leery of that one. Cheers...

MiZZiE

thats why i posted it here! lol i'll ask this guy whats up. I mean even if it isn't a 10 second car it still has alot of engine work and sounds like a good project too make a nice track/street car. but if the guys trying to tell me it's a 10 second car when it really isn't then who knows what else he could be BSin about, but who knows... i'm going to ask him whats up.... maybe he meant 1/8th mile hahaha thanks guys

MiZZiE

about the heads being stock, not sure he mentioned anything about that, he did say he had a more extensive list of all the mods that he was going to send me. other than the list above i'm not sure what else it has..

heres a picture of the engine.

jms

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=MiZZiE;3071038]

holley double pumper 650 carb.



That is not a Holley carb.

That engine does not have headers.

That air cleaner would not feed a 250 horse engine, let alone a 400 horse engine.

My opinion...RUN, not walk, away from the deal.

jms

CrazyBear

That engine has a tiny air cleaner. My 305 has one bigger than that lol. Anyways sure is bigger than my engine and 400 hp i would think isn't too hard to get on a 400 block. Also he couldve meant a 1976 instead of 86.

91drag

no headers, elderbrock performer carb, small cam , no way 400 rwhp . run run

Dano 00TA

No way is that a 10 second motor either!

brodyscamaro

1/8th mile

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Needs heads to run 10's. If it actually ran 10s, he'd be telling you about the 1k dollar heads on it. There is no way that turd of a motor is going 10's. The 400 needs to breathe. If he has stock heads on that thing I HIGHLY doubt its anything over 250 horse. Most 400's came with shitty smogger heads, especially if it's a late 70's block, it'll be sporting some boat anchor 882 heads. Also, if it's a true 400, the cylindars should "buldge" out of the wall of the block. I'd be careful so you don't get ripped off man. The 400's are hard to come by. You don't want it if it's a 4 bolt either. You want a two bolt! It's not worth it if it's a 4 bolt, they are ****. All the things you need to take into consideration PM if you've got anymore questions.

Ironmahn

If you get the extensive list for this person, post it we'll see what's up.

vwdave

10 seconds? Not a prayer in hell.

400rwhp? 275whp at most. Just a casual observation, experience tells me that a car needs a decent amount of work to run 10's. That car looks like it has some dressup crap on it and not much else. Run the hell away from that deal.

Mcdamit

thats kinda like the deal my buddy buddy just sold to his "best friend"..

400hp tpi 350 Fireturd... Umm stock TPI, stock heads,, headers,, a whole lot of chrome and a hacked A/C.. My 305 had more bawls and both of my rear wheels spin.. get the point?

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

I doubt it's even a 400.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

3.492rs

i bet its an lg4 with a differant carb and manifold since you said your lo3 is faster

MiZZiE

No lol i have yet to drive the car, i was just being sarcastic saying i'd rather find out now then go all the way to where the car is just to find out it's slower than my L03 haha sorry i must have said it wrong lol.

anyways i emailed the guy, i mean he seems like a straight up person so i don't want to bash him yet. but on the internet you never know. i asked him for the extensive mod list and how he assumes it's 400hp.. I also asked about the headers, and how it's an 86 if 400 blocks stopped in 1980 (thanks to you guys). he said he'll send over the extensive list tomorrow. (which he did mention before how his computer was down before hand and he would send me it when its back up, so it's understandable)

heres what he said..


QUOTE:"the car does have headers in the pic it had them when i bought it it was a crate 400 i just know its pre 86 i dunno what year it is i just kno it is a 400 yes i do have a time slip and i can give you the motor numbers and you can search it. ill send you those things you asked for 2 morrow and i think it has 400 because it was a 400 with 390 horse out of a box and its had sum upgrades so im sure it has well over 400. "


is there such thing as a crate 390hp 400 small block? if so then maybe the guys accurate, but 390hp out of that motor sounds iffy without alot of $$mods... i'll post the extensive list of mod's as soon as i get it.. and i still don't understand how it could run 10s, even with 400hp, as brought up to a good point by ironmahn.

I mean even if it's not a 400hp track machine i may still be interested in the car (only IF everything seems right ofcourse) so i'm still looking for input and approximate REAL estimated HP, because my car is pretty much all stock, the guy wants to trade because he says he's done with dragsters and wants to make mine a show car (my car is very clean, 74k miles, garage kept, mint) the body on his car needs work, it's the motor that originally got me interested.... i mean i'm sure it's an equal trade, but i don't want to trade my baby for a trash car with some chrome on the engine.. once i get the extensive list and motor numbers i'll post them up... thanks for all the help so far, it's made me iffy on the deal and we'll see whats the real deal when he sends me that info...

sorry for the long post, had to catch up with all the replys, thanks guys

-Mike

91drag

i dont think 400 horse motor is going 10's either when he send you the block # you can check it at mortec.com to find out what it is .if you car is a low mileage car and a clean body i wouldn't trade. you know what you have and dont know what you are getting for sure .you can always take the money you would have to spend on body work and build you a motor or buy you a crate motor with more hp and still know what you have got.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Remember, if it's a 4 bolt block you don't want it. They are weak. Crate motors can be bought from anywhere so yeah I'm sure a 390hp crate motor exists. If it's a 390 horse crate motor that DOESN'T mean it's 390hp at the wheels. That motor would need to be over 600 horse at the crank to have a good shot at 10's. I still can't believe he hasn't told you about the good heads this thing must have to run "10's".

I saw a build in Chevy High Performance with a set of AFR heads: "We finally called it quits with a torque peak of 529 lb-ft at 4,100 rpm and 490 hp at 5,600 rpm. With power like this and a few gallons of low-octane fuel, almost any medium-weight high-performance Chevy could run an 11-second quarter-mile. The added cost of the project is the price difference between the complete Vortec heads ($640) and the AFR 180 heads ($1,924)."

You'd think that this guy would tell you about the expensive set of heads this thing has. There is no way he is running "10's" without a good set of heads. Oh wait, he's prolly running a ported set of small valve 882 casting heads

I'll believe it when I see it.

Denial

Looks a step bigger then mine, except for the intake, carb and air filter of course..
its a 350

brodyscamaro

Uh? The external dimensions should be the same...

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Almost. The 400's bore is so large that is causes the cylindar's to "bulge" out of the block. But yeah, they are the same. Here's a picture. The arrows show where the cylindars are. You can sort of see them stick out. Yep, that's a 509 block

Ironmahn

MiZZiE, if your car is an unmolested mint vehicle and just from the photo of the other vehicle... there would not be a chance of a trade. I really don't think this is the one to trade for by any means, . If you want a 400, go to junkyards, newspapers, etc. and get one for a few hundred dollars and start a build. Who knows what kind of hack jobs that have been done. At least with yours you have an excellent base to start from, and the people here would be glad to help with whatever problems you run into along the way. Just remember not to take any short cuts; sure doing it the correct way might cost more money but it will be the right way and in the end you will have something. Cheers...

vwdave

If I remember correctly, that was a low compression 400 on 87 octane. With more compression and timing with 93 I am sure it would have been faster.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Yeah it was. AFR had/has something on their site with a 400 at 9.5:1 compression putting out 570 horse.

Chevydude1990

On a 400sbc a 2 bolt main is better than a 4 bolt? How and why? Thank you

pancherj

A 2 bolt main is better because it can be converted into 4 bolt SPLAYED main caps. There is more meat out at the edge of the block, so aftermarket main caps have the outside bolts angled outward instead of straight in.


In general...avoid 400SBC blocks. The last time I built one, the machine shop went through at least 10 cores before they found one that was useable and they are getting fewer and far between. Get an aftermarket block and you will be way ahead of the curve.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

14 sec if your lucky..a 600cfm carb..lol put that on a mower and cut some grass
just sayn

TURBOTOMMY

That thing isn't running 10s with that air cleaner on it,,not running 10s with that carb or crappy intake either,,,or that turdly cam in it..Id bet the thing wont run 12s either...If he pushed the issue,,id invite him to line up against my truck everyday.........

cuisinartvette

x2 bet the fastest hes gone IF he went there himself was maybe a 12
That is an old motor been together a long time and hammered on

Those GM blocks are weak. Some get away with running them seen too many that dont. Even one that after spending all the $ on machine work parts a block cracked as they were torquing down the head. Junk

Look hes full of it he is NOT running 10s wiht those parts, ever.

Lots of smooth bsers out there. Some just dont know any better this could be the case also. Thats a very old and small flat tappet cam btw, intake hasnet been made in forever. a 650 Holley DP wont feed much either. Forget about this car get yourself a fresh motor somewhere even if it takes a long time to build.
The Dart blocks are excellent.
400s were made for some trucks and station wagons. They are time bombs