8T9 BANDIT

wow thats a good e/t with only 310 at the wheels. how much does it weigh? suspension mods? is it streetable?

Manic Z

iTrader: (1)

This is just about one of the dumbest threads I've read in a while.
What's the difference if someone hot rod's a 1.8L honda, or a 6.2L camaro?
Hotrodding is hotrodding.

By the OP's logic, the big block boys should not be taking me seriously cause I decided to hop up a 'measly' 350.

Gimme a break.

There are some awesome tuner cars out there that would embarrass most camaros. Get your head out of your *** and wake up. This isn't 1969.

project89

iTrader: (1)

edit fixed car wieght
3380-3450 depending on how much gas is in it
car is a daily driver
1le rear springs
ce enginering drag shocks
front sway bar delete
wonderbar
4:10 rear gears and a spool
28x10.5x15 slicks


car averages over 31mpg on the higway
----------
qft
the real old hotrodders were working with 4 bangers/straight 6's and v6's back in the day
hotroding was working with what u had and getting every last bit out of it

8T9 BANDIT

^ i guess im a hotrodder then. getting the most outta my 305. most here on tgo constanly rip on 305's even though there's lots in the 13's 12's 11's and yes even a couple in the 10's and 9's.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

in the 9's? really, i thnik ive seen 10's

project89

iTrader: (1)

yeah theres one i know of into the 9's for sure and i think theres 2 others on here as well

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

how much boost can u throw at that 3.1?? One of my buddies thats got an integra with a 16pound turbo 1.8 (only import dude i know that aint an *******/retard) just got it "tuned" and i gotta admit it pulls pretty good once it spools up at 5k. I still don't understand how he runs that much boost on pump gas though? and these motors can change the valve timing and **** its pretty interesting i'll admit, i just dont like the fwd part or the japanese part of them. But still why start out with 1.8liters when u could have 350 cubic inches. Throw 16 pounds of boost at a 350 and tell me what happens

project89

iTrader: (1)

its not boost that kills an engine its the tune

there is no deffinate answer and things like compression ratio cyl head chamber design, piston design etc that will affect how much boost u can get away with on pump gas

i can probably hit around 22-24 psi on pump gas as long as the tune is dead on

addin some methanol injection and i can prolly hit low 30 pounds while on pump gas

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

i dont get why sbc's with blowers and 8.5:1 cr can only run like 7lbs of boost on pump gas but turbo 5 bangers can do like 16 dont make ne sense

Manic Z

iTrader: (1)

Why start out with 350ci when u could have 572 cubic inches.
Throw 16 pounds of boost at a 572 and tell me what happens......


Seriously, this thread is f**cking retarded.

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

Because 350s are abundant as oxygen and 572s are expenisve blocks. Sorry your that your logic doesn't work

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

all i know is there are way more fast 4g63T's and 2JZ's running around than small block chevys. pump gas 1000+ awhp on a evo 2.0 liter 4 cylinder is amazing. many 1000+ hp supras its ridiculous. I think those are two of the best motors ever made period.

Kevin84Z28

iTrader: (3)

.
----------
Very intelligent post. I agree with everything you said.

Kevin84Z28

iTrader: (3)

I'd bet 85% of the people on this site are running a 305.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

. and from a tgo supporter and everything, awesome.

Airpak

I have a 1982 Camaro thats been sitting in my parents garage for 3 years but my daily driver is a 1990 Toyota Celica GT4, awd turbocharged 2.0L. Oh the drama.

Kevin84Z28

iTrader: (3)

Sorry to dissapoint you but the TGO supporter thing just means that I kicked in a few dollars when their server went down. Happy to do it thought.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

thats still more than most have done for the board, it wouldnt even be here without guys like you

hectre13

iTrader: (4)

this topic is starting to get a little ridiculous, if your into import 4 cylinder cars with stickers and nasty fx on it, well thats your choice, and if you like having a v8, whether it big or small, thats your choice also, don't put other people down because of their personal preference.

most people who build up these little four cylinders, its because its more affordable..

8T9 BANDIT

paul_huryk

How come you never see these 1000hp+ monsters on the street?

Probably because a 600hp Vette/F Body/Mustang would hand them their ***...

I'd put the LSX motors above those two - not even counting SBC SBC or SB Chrysler....

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Meh, we see quite a few Imports at the track putting down some very good numbers, as well as ET's. Come across a few of those 1000hp+ monsters that get towed in every now and then, but nothing to spectacular to call home about. Agree w/Paul though, LSX, SBC & BBC engines usually dominate....

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

you do. They are more rare than vettes/camaros/mustangs because they are more expensive by three fold. atleast teh supra is, evo is still a 30G car. And their owners dont daily drive them. But they exist in certain areas. Supra's with that power are everywhere tho if you look around. Supras hit 1300-1500whp and still driveable.

i havent seen any other motor do that including lsx. LSx stuff is good but not 2jz good

and the 4g63t is the only 4 banger i know of that has hit the 6 second 1/4 mile level. Not many LSx motors there and they have 8 cyl. there are many 600-900whp streetable evo's. 1000 are much less common but shows it can be done. Browse around some other forums and you will see some things.

2.0 liters and that much power is just down right wrong. They hold up too. Most GM blocks wont hold that.

Now there are thousands of 400-600whp lsx/sbc/bbc's out there as they been around for 50 years, with the lsx being the newest but has a great aftermarket. SBC/BBC has the best aftermarket of any motor period. Your more than likely gonna run into a fast vette/camaro/etc as there are more of those cars and since they been around longer. All i'm saying is there are import motors that are extremely well built and can make insane power and dominate. You may not see them as often but you have to appreciate what they are able to do.

GodSpeedGTA

iTrader: (1)

You guys need to separate the words tuner and r!cer. Tuners are considered serious car owners who know their stuff and choose to mod imports. Most like both domestic and imports and respect most all cars like good car guys do.

Also, a 'good' exhaust system for an import is $1000 not $200. Thats just plain inaccurate. They are almost identical in terms of modding costs. Not so cheap when "importing parts from Japan" either

GodSpeedGTA

iTrader: (1)

I disagree with the above statement as well. The new LSX block can handle more power than you can throw at it for the $$$ than ANY import block. Even the mighty 2jz will bust at 2000 hp. Sure they can make them out of thick *** aluminum but you wont get it for $1800 like the LSX.

Ive lived in Houston for 8 years and went to a couple car gatherings down 1960 hwy and NEVER seen a 1000+ supra. I know they are out there but they arent "everywhere", thats incorrect. Also, your talking about the cars like they all have 700-1000 hp on stock import blocks...they don't.

95% of them replace the block and build extremely strong motors. Some might keep the block and I usually see vids of them on streetfire with cracked blocks after a race. Im not saying imports arent impressive. I love subbies and evos and supras are insane. Great cars but im tired of people stretching the truth to talk about them like they are gods bc its what others say.

And most of those ppl, have nev owned a supra, evo or expensive import.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

No you can make tons of power on the stock internals. Supra guys dont have to change blocks/trans/rears or anything for 600-700whp unlike us or LSX guys. thats from the factory. I've heard accounts of 900whp on stock stuff and most of the big builds only change pistons/rods to lower compression to run more boost. Crank is fine

LSx block is great but they made it cuz no factory block can support the power. supra block from the factory is very strong.

granted yes some of those guys upgrade everything to be safe, its only smart to do that.

GodSpeedGTA

iTrader: (1)

We've all "heard" plenty of BS. Plenty of ppl spout it every single solitary day. Until you have seen it in person and seen the dyno sheet, anything can be said, made up or lied about. Keep that in mind. If they make 700 rwhp on stock rears/trannys/blocks then i gaurantee they dont make it for long before something craps out. You cant change physics and strengths of materials my friend.

Whether anyone likes it or not the new LSX block IS the best $$ for strength block EVER built. YES, better than the mighty stock 2jz by a lot. 2jz motors are great motors, but why did toyota stop using them? They have problems just like all motors, thats why. Not every 2jz is gonna support 1000 hp for 100,000 miles+...thats the BS everyone likes to spread. Its just not true.

agree to disagree

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

no we had a guy in the area make that big power on stock rear and such. He moved to arizona and now makes 1300whp. Another Local guy here makes 700whp on stock everything just fine.

You can say agree to disagree but your wrong about the supra. Its the best constructed car i've ever seen, over engineered strength wise thats for sure. Dont believe it? Go to a supra forum and hang out there for awhile. I wouldnt be telling you this if it was just hearsay


BUT your right the LSX block is the best bang for the buck block and being aftermarket designed i would HOPE its better than factory 2jz They stopped making the supra here thats why its not around. They still made them in japan/europe for alittle while more i do believe. then discontinued the car....still a great motor tho. They discontinued the camaro too for awhile, doesnt mean the car was crap

8T9 BANDIT

yes, this thread has gotten quit retarted. But i think it has also gotten off topic to some extent. What the original poster was trying to speak of, are the kids in most neighborhoods with civics with fart cans and 4ft spoilers covered in stickers. Not the serious "tuner" cars you guys are speaking of running at the tracks with 1000hp. to calarify, we were not speaking of the big league 11-10-9-8 sec track cars. but those r****s that cruise around with 145hp trying to run 3rdgens and fox body's. I hope that made sense?

LMSkyliner

iTrader: (1)

Ok. No offense to everyone here but there are more biased posts here than on most import boards I know of.


First, a "tuner" is definitly different than a "r1cer". There are mostly r1cers around here, and many of them don't deserve the road they drive on the way they f*** with traffic. However there are a few serious tuners out here too. For instance, a guy at my school (18 yr old) already owns his own business. Guess what he drives? A 07' Saturn Ion Redline. Car looks totally stock from the outside (and maybe alittle r1cer from the factory...) but, open that hood... Man, that car is a work of art. Runs low 11s all day with a simple front tire change. There's a car every bit as cool as i can hope mine will be.

Second, domestic's are just as guilty of r1ce and r1cer actions as imports are. I'll take my homecoming dance saturday for practical purposes. In the back of the parking lot there were 6 (new) mustangs. All bought by rich parents first of all, but the point is what they were doing. First, none of them have cats or mufflers anymore since they decided it was "cool" to have loud, unshaped, and unclean gases/sound pouring from their pipes. In their little spot in the back of the parking lot, they were revving and blaring their music and acting like they were all awsome. On their way out after maybe 20 minutes of revving at nothing, they all tore out of the parking lot and up the street like it was some race. There were also a few imports. Even a few "r1cers" at my homecoming, but they weren't the ones revving away and blaring music in the backround. Nope, in fact they left peacfully. And don't tell me "oh those were just msutang guys. They are just as bad" The only reason it was 6 mustangs and not 6 camaro's is because mustang's are whats hott around here (i am the only camaro owner in the school).

And another point i want to make real quick. From a third person perspective, many people on this board are subject to exactly what we are insulting the imports of. Over estimating our own cars. You wouldn't believe how many posts on this board are from 305TBI owners with 2.73 rear makin MAYBE 200HP. That's worse than most commuter cars anymore. Then there's the stock/lightly modded 305TPI and L98 guys. Guess what, I hate to say it, but you're car's arn't fast anymore either!!! I'll be the first to admit my grand am (with a few little mods) will keep up with my camaro. low 14s are not fast. mid 13s are not fast. If you want to be "fast" now adays, come back when you break the 13.5 bench at LEAST (preferably 13.0), because otherwise you might as well stick to racing commuter cars, because you're not beating anything with any real performance in it. I've even seen ppl try to take on Z06's before. Guess what guys. The record for a showroom Z06 in the 1/4 is 10.96 last time i checked. Can you do that? No. And then there is the ZR1 above THAT. That is fast. low 15 second 3rd gen's arn't the standard anymore. Wake up and smell the roses!


Lastly, I'm not defending imports guys. There is a reason i got 4 SBC's sitting in my garage next to the camaro. There is still a significant draw to SBC's. They have not and will not be replaced by I4's, simply because they are totally different animals. But, for all intensive purposes, as others have said, there is a replacement for displacement. It is called technology.

chevy boi

lets just make this simple.

the reason i pick to fix up a Iroc is because it's cheaper plain and simple. case and point my buddy has a mk3 supra. fast car ill give him that. . his car will run right next with my car,but the fact is if i break something it more the likely fixed for 100 bucks if its nothing non major. him on the other hand he will expect to spend at least double that to get his car fixed.

dollar for dollar you can reach 350-400 hp mark cheaper with a SBC then most imports. hell if you are building a race only car its even cheaper. im not saying it cant be done with a import, but lets face it you cant pick up a 2j, a rb ect.. for 200 bucks at your local pick and pull on a half day sale. you cant buy a high flow intake manifold, big injectors at a swap meet for 350 bucks like you can with some high rise manifolds and a 700cfm carb. you cant get 4 cams and a 4-2-1 manifold as cheaply as a a 2nd hand comp cam and long tube headers. hell for the price of a crate engine 2j i can go to a junk yard find 4 bolt main block get it mangafluxed, buy a forged roating assembly install them and poirbly still have some extra

i personaly like imports. there good car great gas milage, but lets just think of it from a logical perspective. money not being a problem and making a race only engine anything you can do to a 2jz you can do to a lsx and SBC. they have 4v a cly for both the lsx and the SBC, they both have a aftermarket for bullet proof internals, they can all be turbocharged supercharged and sprayed , they can all have some just evil mods done to them its just a matter of cost

8T9 BANDIT

PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didnt know being 12yr's old was mandatory in this thread. ^^

dgnretj

hey guys just thought that i would through in my thoughts/experiences. i have come into contact with both ricers and tuners. I have much respect for some of my friends that are tuners regardless of how much i make fun of them using half the motor as i have! but long ago when i first got my 87 305 tpi 5speed with the red paint where the clear coat was just about completely gone and the driver side fender was sky blue and hood off and cracked windshield, i went to get some gas down the street and on the way back some guy and his girlfriend pulled along side me in this very nicely painted beautiful wheeled acura and im in my pos looking stock iroc he revved his engine at me to race... needless to say i pulled far ahead of him quickly enough to not miss my right turn! hahahaha if i was him with my gf in the car thats like getting beat up in front of your girl over a fight she starts! lol but as far as tuners go a coulple of my buddies are running mid 11's which is better that i am running right now but not for long but like most are stating here its just easy to buy a cheap honda and put exhaust and wing to look or sound fast where as it takes alot more to get a fast car just as us muscle men. so in theory there are alot less fast imports on the streets because of how easy it is to obtain them compared to the faster imports that we have to worry about. none the less i daily drive a nissan 200sx but there will be no replacing my 87 357 tpi soon to be 385 hsr

wulfgar the pen

i agree when i see a civic running down the street my first though isn't '*****" ist "i wonder whats under the hood" in my opinion the oonly real ***** vehicle are the cars with all the body mods all the stickers and emblems to make it look like it rips... and a bone stock peice of **** engine

and i have seen just as many riced out mustangs as i have seen imports around where i live

92redz28

thats the most sense anyones made so far!! all the kids have been driving hondas, toyotas, etc and when the movie slow and the curious came out it just gave them a reason to take those "economy cars" and make(or try) to make them fast. Yes, there annoying and look stupid as hell but some of them are hella fast....

86rsproject

Riced out mustangs not camaros, thats right. Of course we realize our stock 305's are nothing, but no import can get that rumble. I don't care how modded a Saturn Ion Redline is, it's still tupperware.

Fireteam Echo

I would like to point something out. In "Sport Campact Car" magazine they did a compared an RX7 with a rotary, a 98-02 Camaro SS (Ls1), and an RX7 with an LS1. They realized (to there horror) that the V8 powered RX7 was much faster then the rotary one. It destroyed the rotary in every way. The camaro was fast too but it had really bad tires (and an automatic).
Anyways, you guys are F-body owners, stop supporting imports!! I know tuners can be fast (with the right modifications) but seriously this is a third gen site, support third gens!!!!!

PS: 86rsproject's figured it out

Manic Z

iTrader: (1)

It's not about 'supporting' imports.
It's about knowing and respecting the opposition, and being a little more open minded about what's out there.

chaoz28

i havnt read anything but this first post. but im sorry dude a fully modded b18a all motor can turn 340 to the wheels with boost they are good for around 6-700 and thats a 7000 build.. with 7 grand we are lucky to make 600 all motor and we have twice the cylanders.. the japs know what they are doing... second just to not defend japs cuz i hate hondas like everyone else but i have a 69 bug 2.1 flat 4 that runs 12.3 in the quarter and my 1st and second are close ratio high torque i could pull 5s in an 8th without spray and that on a 3400 dollar build and an un gutted bug.. the number of cylanders makes no difference its how its built and tuned

sap

Is anyone's opinion any different after reading this thread than it was before? I doubt it.

Yet on it goes ... and I'm helping it along

8T9 BANDIT

Not thirdgen related so please-

Phishman92

^^^ that .com bit just about made me **** myself

ok, here's my take on this. It was mentioned in another post, probably more than one but i haven't read all these. The problem is not import vs. American here. It's whether or not certain people should be allowed to modify cars. period.

Yes, there are an exceptional amount of tools cruising around in their mom's old grocery grabbing civics. They bolt on a "type R" wing, fart cannon, hideous ground effects and wheels that would even look rediculous on the "race car" they were supposedly designed to mimic. Then they proceed to "ride dirty" down the street blasting hiphop/techno and staring at more lcd screens than they're physically capable of watching. This would be called rice. But equally as idiodic are the people (sadly, i've even seen some on here) that get a P.O.S. third gen and slap on painfully obvios do it yourself stripes, hood scoops/spoilers that were clearly caniballized from another car, hockey puck rear end lifts, and ancient flowmasters patched on by duct tape and empty coors boxes. With this winning combination they'll do one wheel burn outs all day rocking out to .38 special and yelling out their t-tops over the "american muscle" sticker on their windshield at uninterested women. There are even more names for these less than outstanding members of society but I won't mention them because I know a lot of us are doing our best to shake the stereotypes they have infused with third gen ownership.

All companys and countries have different levels of automobiles. They start at the lowly econo boxes and ascend through the ranks through to the hallowed super car. I like to think of third gens being in the upper 25%; sitting in the sportscar camp but still able to go out and have a good time with their mentally challanged muscle car cousin. Most of the "ricers" are econoboxes and have no business being modified. BUT there are a number that have proven their worth: i will admit that the subaru WRX and Mitsubishi Evo are FAR superior cars to ours. They're faster, better handling, better stopping and you can even DRIVE THEM IN THE WINTER for f*cks sake. but yet they were spawned from the unloved impreza and lancer models...go figure. I have a great deal of respect for cars such as this that have overcome their lesser designs to become something worthy of running with sports cars or higher. We are lucky to have a capable platform to begin with instead of having to modify EVERYTHING.

I have some very good friends that own SRT neons, WRX's, EVO's, nissan 240's, and as much as it pains me to say it....turbo hondas/acuras. All of them are CAR GUYS. They like speed, hate posers, and watch fast and the furious for a GOOD LAUGH. All of their cars are faster than your IROC. I guarantee it. (12's, 11's, and even high 10 1/4 miles and they're all daily drivers.)

I used to think imports sucked. Then I grew up. I got educated. I learned that any car can become a high performance machine in the right hands, for the right amount of money. I love my camaro and it will always be my favorite car. But after driving home on a rainy fall day on roads covered in wet leaves, I thought "man it'll be nice to put this away and not have to worry about traction in my Subaru 2.5RS this winter!"

If you think those "tuner" import owners are losers for thinking their cars are fast, imagine what a 500 wheel hp Evo owner thinks of you!!

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

This thread is too funny. Sorry but the kid tooling around in his 16 second LO3 Fbody is NO better than the 16 second Acura Integra all stickered up running the same times...

awilson82

The cars in the 60's 70's were 13-15 sec rides not because they were slow but because back then they had no tires and spun off the line for the first 1/8 mile. You throw on a set of Mickeys instead of the 6 inch wide harder than nails biasplys and they will run in the 11-13 second range.

sorry for quoting the old post but didnt read this thread before now lol kinda been off the board for a while now working on the Z.

327???

Why does everybody think imports are all FWD 4 bangers?

RWD nissan I6 is where it's at.


I agree with everything Phishman92 said, there are a lot of fast imports around here, many in the 11's, some in the 10's. All of them are car guys just like the domestic guys.

Daves03

it goes fast cause its got stickers, ive heard on estimate each sticker adds about 5-10 rwhp, so 20 stickers can give you anywhere from 100-200 rwhp. thats pretty good at 2.00 a piece.

which i had a 1991 nissan 240sx, there pretty sweet cars, inline 4 cylinder 2.0 litre 4 valves a cyl, and DOHC engine, that thing would fly and had plenty of power i sold it for 1000 dollars and have regreted it since, now i have a 2000 honda civic which im happy with it buy i dont think of it as a race car, yes its fast for a 1.6 litre engine but its no 1/4 mile demon its a 35+ mpg economical vehicle for when people dont set aside gas for an emergency and theres a hurricane comming through and they have to shut down all the oil rigs.

oh yeah and the 240sx was rear wheel drive the motor set in like any other car not sideways
the honda as you know is sideways and is front wheel drive.

25thmustang

Minus the fact that this is half the site... Some people are narrow minded and don't appreciate fast, they usually own 16 second LO3s...

WyoIROC

Or any other import they are still plastic junk. If My 95 Suburban ever hit one of these so called safe cars it would turn them back into a pop can.

I grew up with muscle cars, having a mid 12 sec 70 Buick Gran Sport in high school with only cam, dual quads and headers. No hondah would ever match up to a muscle car, period.

Tim

885speed

iTrader: (1)

Hell, I drive my third gen for only $1200 a year at 16
how i manage that i dont know
my original insurance company wanted about $4800 a year

IMO there IS a difference between r!cers and tuners
and everyone who pointed it out before me got it right on the head of the nail


also, the term r!cer doesnt just apply to imports
i have a kid at my school who drives a 99 sh!tstain GT who has it all gay looking - generaly speaking who thinks its fast as hell when he has absolutely no underhood mods

im not sure about anyone else on here, but while looking for my first car (not that my heart wasnt set on a third gen already) i would NEVER settle for anything less than a V8 and dont think i will for a VERY long time

i dont care who you are though, when you hear a fart car floor it and barely hit the speed of smell, can you really resist the urge to crack up laughing?


oh and the whole "tooling around in their 16 second LO3" thing...
i may rarely play around in mine, but whats the big deal with that?
the only people i claim to be able to whoop on in a race are two friends who own V6 and I4 ford rangers. whats the harm in that?

thats only because i cant afford the LSx swap that i would oh so love to have

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I've never seen one of the faster true stock muscle cars run at the track but i still dont think they are as fast as everyone thinks. FAST racing series cars run on thin factory redline/bias plys and run 11's. there is a 400 68 firebird runing mid 12's at 106 on factory tires at my track.

But i dont think its factory stock car It sure looks like it but i dont know. Alot of those FAST series cars are stock looking to the T as they have to be. But the point is they are modded alot using stock stuff, but more modern cams and such i think. They put out more power than factory cars thats for sure