quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

NOT TRYING TO START AN LS1 VS LT1 ARGUMENT HERE!!!!!

im got a friend with a 98 camaro z28 ls1 t56 Bone stock.. and she keeps telling me that she wants to race me when my camaros done.. i dont think my camaro will be able to beat her because ive drivin hers and it does pack a nice punch for a bone stock car.. anyway my camaro will have a 93 lt1 4l60e with longtube headers, ported intake, and 52mm throttle body and 3.73 gears.. and possibly an aftermarket chip..

now im talking a straight drag race.. i used to street race alot till i got my license suspended for 2 years. i got caught going over 150 in a 45.. so now ive learned my lesson.. and theres a drag strip about 20 min from me anyway.. raceway park english town nj. she knows how to drive.. shes probably the only girl i would let drive my car with out me there.. now seeing as she has never raced on an actually drag strip and i have (fastest pass ive made was a 9.34 scared the **** outta me... but i loved it) i might have the upper hand on this.. i also have some slicks for the car to might need them.. anyway what do u guys think..

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

93 I think was a weaker LT1 than the 94-97s but I dont know what would make them weaker.. Just thought I heard the 93's were not as stout

My buddy's 95 LT1 with headers/3.73 gears, auto and a tune ran high 12's on street tires at 106mph. Thats very good for a LT1 in full weight 4th gen.
98 LS1's will run pretty hard too. 6 gear cars are low mid 13's at 105-108 depending on driver and car options. My 99 stock auto TA went 13.4 at 104.

Sounds like you have drivers race on your hands. This one will be close.

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

we shall see.. i was actually able to beat her 06 mustang gt in my 91 vert with the 305 tbi auto up a hill.. she was about 2 cars ahead of me when i launched it and i had caught her before she realised it and i saw the front of her car raise up but by that time i was still pulling hard in second gear and drove right around her she gave up when i had pulled 2 cars on her but i knew that she could have caught me if she really tired cuz i had lost every race before that one and after that one lol .. but im hoping to beat her to shut her up

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

Anyone else?

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Dude, really? What relevance does this have? You race uphill? Not to mention she didn't even know you were racing...lol

It's going to be close, if the LS1 is driven perfectly it just might edge you out...but LS1 times seem to be all over the map. Some run deep 13's stock, some run mid 13's.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

hmm idk.

1st, get a stall

2nd, LT1s have pretty good low end torque, and LS1s pull hard higher up

might be a drivers race. get a tune though too


**whoa just realized you guys live nearby, we should cruise sometime

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

Yea I was ganna get a mail order tune when I did my cam swap and I was thinking of a 3200 stall or would that be a lil to much a street car even if its not drivin every day.. I'm picking up my donor car on the 18th of dec. If ur in the mood to help do any kinda work let me know.. and it would be cool to cruise around when its finished. My buddys got an 87 ta that's he's doing a swap on to hoping to have both running by spring.. I know mine will be ..

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

3200 isn't too much for the street if it's a good quality, smaller converter.

A good Yank or Vigilante in that stall speed won't feel much different than stock.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

yeah definetly, i need to fix a few things on my car like a bad header gasket and the window.
the bad gasket is driving me crazy

i plan on getting a 3600 stall, thats about as high as i would go for street use, though i hear about some people even getting 4000 stall.

and make sure you get a trans cooler too. i plan on getting my stall installed by JS performance, and they quoted me ~$1000 turn key price, that includes the stall, cooler, and anything else i wanna do while the trans is out

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

He's a good friend of mine, good shop, does good work.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

thats what i hear, i want to hurry up and pay my car off so i can buy some fun stuff for the car

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

If you want to go fast then go to him.

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

where is that shop located? got a site? i have a heated work space so ill be doing as much as i can on my own..

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Bolt on lt1 will be in ls1 times.

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

What??

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

He's saying a bolt-on LT1(just bolt on mods) will easily run with a stock LS1...c'mon...keep up with the conversation.

BTW, did you get my PM?

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

A bolt on lt1 meaning exhaust, tune and cai will be in stock ls1 territory.

Anyone wanna donate a 6.0 block?

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

If she's never been to a drag strip then you'll take her if you have slicks. Assuming you know how to launch and have drag raced at a strip before that is. First timers will ussualy NEVER get a car to go what it's rated 1/4 time is, especially with a stick car. My first time ever to a track with my 2000 Firehawk 6 speed I ran a best of 13.8 @ 104.

With my 08 mustang with less power and more weight on crap hard 235 tires, I ran a 13.5 @ 103 because I knew what to expect.

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

yes i have run at the track before a few times probably been down the strip a total of 10 times before.. so i kinda figured i had the upper hand there.. im getting my 93 parts car this weekend i cant wait.. be sure to check out my 91 build thread soon lots of updates comming.. oh and fly89gta yes i got ur pm ill have to check out that shop i got a few friends that work over at ecs (east coast supercharging) and im hoping to be able to get it dynoed after the install with the upgrades

zraffz

A bolt on LT1, stalled, will take a bone stock LS1.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Not necesarily. I have seen 100% bone stock LS1's do high 12's. A personal freind of mine has a vid on youtube of his bone stock LS1 TA with JUST an airlid going 12.7 at around 107 mph. You would need a fully bolt on LT1 with a stall and an awesome driver to run that time.

v10viper04

I would like to see this video.... 12.7 is a stretch...

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Ask and you shall receive. I personally know the kid and car. Stock catback and all......lid and nittos are only mods. A freind of mine took the vid. It was at Lebanon Valley dragway in NY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNiJe1PyEPQ

v10viper04

I wouldn't consider DR's to be stock but not a bad run for a stock engine F-body. This guys friend I don't think has DR's and he does. The DR's helped your buddys car a lot so why shouldn't it do even more with 3.73's? I don't believe that an LT needs full bolt ons to run high 12's. Some stock LT's are in the VERY VERY low 13's. Maybe high 12's, idk, look on LS1tech. Don't underestimate either engine is what i will say. haha Some LT's and LS's are fast, others can be slow. I have seen some stock LS F-bodies in the 14's... Its all about the driver i say.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Yea, the driver makes all the difference in the world. I will say that I've seen plenty of bolt on LT1's run 14's in my area, which is pathetic. That said I have also seen bolt on LS1's run high 13's lol. Your cars only as fast as you can drive it. 12.7 is not by any means the norm for a lid only LS1 but my freind is a hell of a driver and knows how to launch a car on drag radials. I'd never even get a 12.9 out of that car!

v10viper04

Ha ha i hear ya on that one! The Posi is dead in my car so I cant launch worth a crap. Gotta love the one wheel peels! haha

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I've beaten stock LS1's at the track with my setup.

13.3 @ 103mph on street tires with a unlocked converter. I have full bolt-ons though with my LT1 swap.

Its enough to beat the average LS1 with an average driver. Start doing mods and well I can't touch one. One guy I ran with has full bolt-ons on street tires with a 2.73 rear and he was running 12.9x's @ 109mph.

Even have a video.

This is a full bolt-on LS1 vs full bolt-on LT1. Both cars are full weight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rRqCdYMMek

13.01 @ 107 to my 13.68 @ 102.3 that run.

I have run 13.35 @ 102.8.
http://www.youtube.com/user/wjrneo2#p/a/u/1/1c9j2Kg43c4

PHAT89TA

well my lid only 02 ws6 6speed with a shitty driver did a 13.32 @108 mph. like people said on the previous post, it all depends on the driver.

zraffz

I don't doubt it... I remember seeing a video of a drag radial only SS doing a 12.89 and everybody in the video freaks out saying "that's a stock car on radials". I've seen a friend's catback/drag radial/intake WS6 do a 12.9.

But as far as I'm concered you can get a stalled lt1 with bolt ons and drag radials to do that.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

With a stall and tire I would have been there too.

The TC in my combo right now is the original Roadmaster stall. It stalls very low. I can usually get the tires to start spinning by 1300rpm with the foot-brake. I typically launch it about 1200rpm.

But its hard to discount the LS1, it does make more power and stock LS1s typically trap higher than I did. With a stock exhaust, manifolds, and without the CAI I probably would be trapping about 100 or so.

TTA 1387

My buddy's '02 WS6 ran 13.0 bone stock. We swapped my drag radials on and it went 12.7. This was back in '02 at MIR.

My WS6 ran 13.50 bone stock back in '96. With K&N, 160 t-stat, air foil, 4.10 gears, and a HPP+ for the speedo, it went 13.18 still on the stock GSC's in early '97.

So anything is possible. Going to turn into more of a driver's race.

IROC315

iTrader: (9)

I never raced before and took my 01 Z28 to the strip. With a lid, canned tune and cat delete I ran first a 14.40 (spinning hard) 13.02 and then a 12.99 (redlighted) on street tires. It hooked good though. I am sure I could have ran faster with more practice launching.

My nephew had a 95 lt1 and I really liked the torque over mine down low.

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

LS1's are good at the top end but so are the LT1's to a point. Of course I am comparing the TPI VS. LT1 VS. LS1 stock vs. stock. But this is going to be a good race and if you launch right and shift right you just might beat her.

TTA 1387

LS1's over here have a weird reputation of having no low end. My LS1 GTO had better short times than my LT1 WS6 when they were both stock. And that was with the goat weighing almost 400 lbs more. FWIW, the WS6 short time was 2.0 and the GTO was 1.98. That ending up with best's of 13.50 vs 13.25 run for both cars when they were bone stock.

TPI's "feel" like they have a ton of low end torque but in reality, don't perform any better launching.

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

You ever launch your TPI car and have so much power to the rear wheels that you're spinning through the tires and the RPM's are screaming to go and then it hits the sweet spot and BAM! It takes off! Even if it doesn't launch the way you want it to that still feels really nice.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

My LT1 is like that all the time. NHRA/IHRA calculators say i'm making about 320-330 crank HP for my cars trap speed and race weight. 3770lbs with me in it and trapping high 102.x constantly, just couldn't have that 103 huh. Maybe I should have opened the cut-out that day.

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

That's what happened to me today when I took my friend for a ride in my car. He had never been in a IROC-Z before but he had been in a LS1 Z28 2002 car. He had said that car had some good power to it too. I just took a quick drive with him in my car to get his opinion on my ride and when there were no cars around I went from 0-90mph real quick. He told me my car has some good power. I was happy that someone thought my car was fast because he's all into exotic's and stock racing cars.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

LS1's have a reputation for no low end in general. I use to rip EVO's off a stop light with my 2000 firehawk when it was bone stock. The reason TPI's and LT1's "feel" like they have more low end is because they have no top end in comparison to an LS1. The power is there off a stop but then it dies out up top where as an LS1's power is there through the entire pull so it "feels" like it has less low end when in reality it just has more overall everywhere. Look at a dyno graph of an LS1 stock compared to an LT1 stock. The torque at any given RPM is the same or more than the LT1's. It's just a myth on the 2 engines.

v10viper04

Just b/c one is faster in a short race doesn't mean it makes less low end power... Weight, Gearing(BIG FACTOR), State of tune, mods , etc. make for a race. LT's make their torque around 2400rpms, LS's make their torque around 4k.. So the LT makes for a lower end happy motor. I personally think that facter and the factor that an LS starts pulling harder as the RPms climb makes it FEEL like there is less torque.

v10viper04

Again we'll go over this..... LT1 325 ft lbs. @2400rpms / LS1 335 ft lbs @ 4000 rpms... Your saying an LS1 it making more torque at 2400 rpms than an LT1 making its peak torque output? LS1 torque is full in at 4k , i doubt the difference in 1600 rpms is 10 ft lbs.... Unless you have the pics to prove your theory I don't believe it.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

This topic has been discussed over and over on LS1tech and many people have posted dyno charts as proof. I don't have a graph personally but I can see if I can dig up the thread on there.

v10viper04

I would love to see one. LS guys will stop at nothing to trash the LT's. I love features on both engines personally. But i do agree that the LS1's don't loose as much top end so the LT's seem stronger down low. Seen plenty of similarly modded lt's and ls cars that run very close to one another...

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/drag-r...t1-vs-ls1.html

It's discussed a few posts down on the page. I misunderstood too. LS1's make more torque, just later than an LT1 in the RPM band. It's a myth that LT1's and TPI's have more torque in general. Both cars stock will spin the tires from a standstill though.

v10viper04

ok well at least that's cleared up. and yes they both will haha

zraffz

Traffic light to traffic light a LT1 can hold down its own... on the highway the LS1 will quickly run away from it. The LT1 isn't at all a bad motor, it's snotty down low and that's all you need for a street or street/strip car.

v10viper04

TTA 1387

I have both and not going to "trash" either. Both are strong engines. The LS1 is just better, as well it should be since it is newer tech than the previous engines.

TTA 1387

LT1's make max torque at a lower rpm than the LS1. But the LS1 makes the same torque at that rpm also, just not max.

The dyno of my WS6 shows the same power as the dyno for my GTO at low rpm. The curve on the WS6 stays pretty flat from 2100-4500 rpm then falls off. The torque curve on the GTO never flattens, its a steady rise until peak, then falls off. But the numbers were the same down low

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Pretty much, both are strong. However it seems like when someone says LS1>LT1 the LT1 guys get all butt-hurt. It's pretty pathetic yet comical at the same time.

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

I don't know about the rest of you but I like them all, TPI, LT1 and LS1.