DannyT

Is this as easy to install as it looks? I only see 4 bolts in the pictures that connect the plenum to the base. Talk about a snap! After installing my SuperRam I can only dream of something so easy.
Anybody have problems of any kind installing the Stealth Ram?

age

no problems here.. that's all that it takes to install the plenum onto the base (without the T/B). All of the intake manifold bolts are also quite accessible

JMatlock88

The only things that might bug you about the hsr install are fuel lines, hood clearance, and cold air pipe. Everything else is just a straight forward intake install with no surprises. Here's the way I did my fuel lines down by the tranny.

Ricktpi

It's that easy. I had mine on & off to reseal the rear of the manifold in about an hour & 15 min. That same job on a Super Ram took me most of an afternoon.

DannyT

That's my main point. The SuperRam is a bitch to install.
Do you have to modify the stock fuel lines when installing the Stealth Ram though? Can you convert it back to stock using the new lines?

BlackBeast'88

Guys,

I have an 88 formula L98. Recently I read the article in GMHTP and it appears that I might have problems with clearance on my hood if I get the stealth ram installed. Question: what did you guys to to fix this problem. Also, what type of performance increase have you seen.

FruityOne

From what I've read, camaro's won't have a problem fitting the HSR under the hood. It'll be tight, but nothing bad.

The 'birds on the other hand won't fit from what I understand. I don't know if clearancing will fix the situation, or if a new hood will be required but its not a simple swap.

So basically....this is a bump for more attention.. ^_^

Brad

Guys, do a search. All of this information has been talked about a million times

Yes, you can install the Stealthram without modifying the stock fuel lines. Use these fittings: http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin...A/9894DBH.html. The 9894DBH & 9894DBJ are the ones needed for the stock hard lines the other two are used if you want to come off the stock rubber lines in front of the manifold.

The Stealthram will fit under the stock Firebird hood if you cut away the metal bracing that is underneath. You can also go the route that JMatlock88 did and mill the Stealthram down to make it shorter. If you have any questions, PM him. I'm sure he'd be happy to share with you how to best get the clearance for the Firebird hood.

IROCZ88x

there was an article in this months GMHTP that i thought was pretty good about installing SR on a IROC as someone mentioned. they address the clearancing problem as well as a llot of other stuff..something was even mentioned about a future plenum designed to better fit thirdgens and possibly even one with a EGR to make street legal...just lettin u know

JMatlock88

Here are some pictures that I took today. I have never formally posted any of this info. I hope this will be useful in future searches. Pictures speak a thousand words.

Hood clearance...
Tools: Air Cutting wheel
Cut as shown. This is an art...take your time. I will be painting the underside of the hood. The modification to the braces will be mostly unnoticable after paint. The hood is still plenty rigid.

Stealth Ram clearance...
Mill plenum top and bottom faces making both faces approximately half of their original thickness. The plenum box will still be plenty robust. I chose to mill off the rough casting surface of the remaining 4 sides and polish. Search archives for more polishing information. The 3 throttle cable bracket holes were ovaled slightly to raise the bracket away from the fuel rails. This can be done with a round file, mill, or a hand drill/dremel. The base was milled on the surface that meets the plenum bottom. Material (approximately < 1/16") was removed from the surface until the throttle bracket and plenum box neared the fuel rails. The state of tune will not be altered due to these mods nor will the HSR performance be compromised.

Throttle body clearance...
Just as an extra measure, I countersunk the torx screws that hold on the throttle body plate. I also countersunk the top two throttle body main bolts. Cutting the IAC housing's coolant passage fittings was necessary to clear the water neck.

These modifications yield about 1/8" ++ of clearance to the closest contact point. THIS IS WITH THE ENERGY SUSPENSION POLY MOTOR MOUNTS which tend to raise thirdgen engines 1/2"! I never documented my original height so I cannot be clear on this measurement. The closest point is the front passenger side of the throttle body corner near the bolt, so this is what to keep an eye on.


Fuel line parts as shown above...

Okay, the best way (not the cheapest way mind you) in my opinion to set up a thirdgen stealth ram is the following:
Summary: Use two 3 ft sections of 5/16" ID braided steel hose. Use the proper fittings to connect these to the regulator and to the return rail. Cut the factory lines where the plane made by the motor and bell housing union intersects the fuel lines. Double flare the factory lines, then fasten the braided lines to your flared ends with the proper fittings.

My Napa part list is as follows:

Hose: SBT-06 (5/16" ID braided steel hose) $4.99/ft 6' $29.94

Fittings: BTMP-0604 (1/4" male pipe) $4.49 (2) $8.98
BTFJ-0606 (-6 female AN) $5.09 (2) $10.18

Other: 252X6 (3/8" inverted female to 1/4" fem. pipe) (2) $4.38
7916 (3/8" inverted male to 5/16" inv. female) (1) $4.69
105X5 (5/16" inverted tube nut) (1) $0.19
105X6 (3/8" inverted tube nut) (1) $0.29
Labor: Braided stainless steel teflon fitting swage (4) $40

Subtotal: $98.65
Tax: $4.99
Total: $103.64

Any fitting place should be able to understand what this post means.

JMatlock88

Places to cut...

JMatlock88

Close look at Stealth Ram with clearance modifications

JMatlock88

.

Hasselhof

Maby this is a stupid question...but what about the 9. injector when swapping a stealth ram into a pre 89 TPI ?

If that is no problem my 88 GTA would love the stealth ram

Kingtal0n

yeah and can a stealth ram be used with a MAF sensor?

JMatlock88

Just swap to a 90-92 GM 7730 ecm and wiring harness. You can find ecms around for $50 and harnesses for $100-150. You will need to find a MAP sensor as well. The swap takes about 1.5 hours and is very straight forward. There are no provisions for the 9th injector in the HSR. There is nothing preventing the use of maf as long as you fabricate the necessary ducting.

BlackBeast'88

Thanks for the deals on fixing the hood for proper clearance. Kinda seems like a lot of work just to get the stealthram installed. I hope they come out with a shorten version.

Kingtal0n

what is a 9th injector? that cold start thing?

DannyT

Yes

Matt87GTA

Someone is working on one as we speak... In fact I think it may even be into full production now .

Hasselhof

I really want the HSR...but I would also like to keep the cars wiring and ecm..and the system MAF based .. is there no way that the HSR can be adapted to work with 88 TPI??

are there other problems about the swap..than the 9. injector?

thanks for the help

BlackBeast'88

Matt87GTA,

You seem to be a pretty knowledgable 3rd genner...ha..ha. I hope you are right about them being in production now.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

JMatlock88, $103 to do a fuel line setup? Holy Crap. What was your reason for setting the fuel lines up that way? Isnt there an easier way to do this? Where you trying to hide the fuel lines as much as possible by having them come up the rear of the engine?

JMatlock88

Ya, it was quite expensive. I did this because I wanted to clean up the engine bay as much as possible. The factory lines running along the psudo frame rail up to the front of the intake looks terrible IMHO. Using my method, the fuel lines come up to the back of the motor (where the hsr fuel in/out fittings reside) completely unseen. I was charged quite a lot from my local NAPA to make these fittings. You can order the fittings from aeroquip and get a better deal if you do the work youself.

Kingtal0n

cant you just use some of those Army/Navy fittings from Summit and some of that aluminum 1/2" fuel line thats easy to bend to make your own fuel line / fitting setup? Thats what I was thinking of doing.

doc

Concerning the MAF ??? and the '88 TPI ???

The car that GMHTP installed the HSR is an '86 MAF car, they specifically stated that the MAF, TPS, IAC wiring was all re-used with no modifications.

Also, they mentioned that with a late model carb thermo neck, there should be clearance for the serpentine belt system on TPI cars.

JMatlock88

Yes, but why...
If you want to swap to a heavy breathing HSR, there almost no point to keeping a restrictive MAF. The SD swap can be nearly free once you ebay off your old wiring, ecm, and MAF. If you are just dead set on using MAF and it gives you kicks to fab the necessary ducting, you can convert your prom to 1989 programming. You'll be reprogramming the chip anyway to realize the full potential of the HSR.

doc

I dont want to open that can of worms again (MAF vs SD), BUT

supposedly the screenless MAF will flow about 720CFM. I worked out an equation from a book about flow rates of various sized engines, and to my surprise, a 395 max flow rate is about 685CFM.

In addition, my 400RWHP LS1 car flows about 567CFM at peak power. This is from measurements. So the flow rate for a 395 at 685CFM makes good sense. BTW: my LS1 car has a MAF.

The biggest restriction on our TPI cars is the long route the air takes from entering the duct to the plenum (not to mention the TPI hardware itself). I have a Camaro and purchased a fabricated ram air part,, I litterally(sp) ram air into the plenum as I drive forward.

Then when its all said and done, maybe I am a glutton for punishment!!! I have a good handle on burning Eproms and tuning the engine. If I biuld a 395 AND switch to SD, I think that I will have bigger prolems getting the 395 to run right. So first, I want to see how the MAF works.

JMatlock88

The limitation of maf is not flow rate. The signal output range of the tables is the limit. You just opened the can.

doc

I am well aware of the 256 gms/sec value limit on my '87 MAF car. I might hit the limit at 4800 RPM, but then I will be in PE mode and I can add extra fuel via the "WOT % change to AFR vs RPM table". I think it becomes a tuning issue.

Matt87GTA

And that tuning issue looks a lot easier on paper than it is. Once you start lying to the ECM, the feces truly hit the fan....

Been there, tried that, went 730, haven't looked back.

doc

I know that this should be taken over to the programming borad, but can you tell me what the '730' is?

TIA

JMatlock88

The last three digits of the number that's on the ecm of speed density thirdgens.

89transam

I hate to bring back a dead post but....

I am getting the stealthram is a few days (hopefully) , and I am goign to need to clearence the hood. NOw what purpose does the insulation on the underside of the hood serve?

I think it might look bad to keep it all on there execpt on the one spot that I cut for th HSR.....

Am I ok to rip it all off? Will it be alot louder?

Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

rip it out. b/c I said so.

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

I believe it is a fire supressor as well as noise dampener.
I took mine off since it kept making my engine dusty,

Breadfan

The hood insulation keeps the the paint on the hood from being affected by all the heat . If you you remove it , like i did , and you have headers . Then your hood might look like mine . I have little quarter size areas where the paint is coming off.

89transam

I think ill keep it on then. Thx

JMatlock88

I've never had any problems with heating up the paint.

Breadfan

how long has yours been removed ? I have about 20-25k without it .

JMatlock88

Well I've had two thirdgens with headers in which the insulation was removed. My Formula hardly gets driven, but there were at least 25K on my GTA. No paint problems.

CamaroX84

I don't use hood insulation...never had a problem with either the steel hood I had or my current fiberglass hood. I've never heard of someone's paint actually being affected by it either. Good luck with the Stealth Ram. You'll enjoy it!!

Breadfan

If i had a digital camera i would take a picture . but i don't have one . All i can say is that they install it for a reason , if it didn't have a purpose than mfg would not spend the money on it.

Jza

It's mainly for noise suppression. As hard as it is to believe, the majority of the consumer public like nice quiet cars and everything they can do to isolate engine noise from the passenger compartment is to their advantage. Unfortunately, GM didn't start getting good at it until around 90 or 91...

Camaroz29

iTrader: (3)

Exactly the info I was looking for. I've heard that using clamps and the stock lines isn't the best way to go so I'll be changing over to this setup.

Slow89Iroc-Z

not necessary they make adapters to go from the stock fitting on the lines to AN fittings. No fuel line cutting is necessary...makes it a whole lot easier....

V6sucker

ok this has probly been dead a while, but I am a grave digger what can I say...

ok I got a 89 GTA, 383 ready to be assembled and the stealth ram sitting waiting for me to make up my mind how I want to clearance things...

This is what I have come up with...
gain 1/4" upper by removing the top fins.
Gain another 1/4" by milling the upper surface to the air box. which should gain 1/2" off overall height, 1/4" at the throttle body.

I measured the socket head bolts and there is 1/4" difference between bottoming out and what protrudes through the air box, so to be safe I will cut a little off the bolts to prevent bottoming out.

You ask why all this trouble, I am just not oo keen on cutting the hood bracing. To me my hood seems flimsy enough without cutting some of the bracing.

craig6.9diesel

I had a HSR on my 88 GTA for 2 years with stock computer without any problems. I left the cold start wire there just threw the injector away, everything is stock as it comes to the computer and wiring harness. I did the intake, and a cam, 24lbs injectors. I bought the fuel rails that holley has listed with it. The car went from a 14.90 stock to a 13.70, without any thing else. As for the hood I cut the brace and it fit until i sprayed N20 through it. Now i have 2 demples in the hood. I must of had bad motor mounts which doesnt suprise me cause the car has 180,000 on the orignal motor. By the way went 12.50 on a 100 shot. Later on i had a custom chip made for it and it was the biggest waste of money. I love my HSR and I am currently working on a twin turbo set up for it. I hope i help some one out.

Blade09

Sorry to drag this back to life... again. But if I read this post correctly you ran a 12.5 with giggle gas on a stock MAF? Seems to disprove all of the MAF haters out there.

Rice01

As We all seem to beat this dead horse about once a year or so, I'll take the whip this time.
Does anyone have pics or routing of the vacume lines and sensors as to which hole is which on the HSR plenum? its been a long day but I'm counting 4 small holes in the back for vacuum lines(the factory had 3? unless thats where they want the PCV routed to, which I havent found a hole similar to the factory location) and one on the underside where a sensor was on the factory somewhere above the EGR location on the base.(does anyone know what that sensor reads?

Secondly, the "throttle body coolant cover" where the IAC is located... does anyone make a better looking IAC mount without the coolant fittings? word on the proverbial street is everyone does away with those anyway to keep hot coolant from warming the air stream through the throttle body...

Am I close on any of this or should I just go throw the dunce cap on for a bit?