RS Chris

Or, their waiting until teleportation becomes possible and there is no use for cars and then presto, it finally arrives.

Brady j8Z28-I have to agree with you about BBK seeming more like a dooshstang company.

Is it just me or is anyone else tired of hearing that thirdgens are a dead market? It seems that most aftermarket vendors have their heads so far up their own asses focusing on LS1 and new mustang junk, that they refuse to acknowledge the untapped potential that awaits them. Maybe someday someone will realize this and the person who does could possibly make a lot of money.

B4Ctom1

I think the thirdgen market was big. If anything it had a birth the preceded the mustang performance market. The thirdgen market was biggest until the mid 90's.

The later explosion of mustang parts in the late 90's was a sort of perfect storm. The stang performance market was emerging right when the economy was in full swing, street racing and street car racing was getting into full swing, and the ability of parts companies to invest and produce parts competitively was at maybe its height. Some of it is a credit to the less frustrating engineering in mustangs.

I feel that the mustang market growth has wained through the mid 90's, but its levels have held pretty well. The growth in non-LS variant GM EFI performance parts has definitely suffered.

I feel that eventually we will see a renaissance in the thirdgen market someday. That performance parts for these cars will be as valuable/expensive as restoration parts will be.

Right now there is plenty of fodder to build thirdgens, but many of them are hashed, worn and well clapped out. Totally pristine cars are definitely in the minority, and low mile cars are becoming scarce.

Atilla the Fun

current ship date July 7 !!!!!!!!!!!!! (supposedly)
Why would we want it? It's now possible to get the existing stuff to give us a TPI 383 that makes 475 ft-lbs at 3000 rpm, 531 ft-lbs at 4000 rpm, 472 ft-lbs at 5000 rpm, 445 HP at 4800 rpm, 445 HP at 5600 rpm, and 457 HP at 6000-6200 rpm, all from one engine with nothing more than Extrude-Honed stock base, plenum and (ZZ4) heads, TPiS runners, and a COMP XR264HR10 cam, with 1.625" long tubes. On pump gas.
Can't see them surpassing that.

transam85dudeman

Im thinking of building an intake that exactly like turtle, but slightly different. Casting the intake wouldnt be hard at all. I was checking out ways to cast, heres a cheap way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uIF_NIJN5g something anybody can do. Theres a lot of forming casting vids. check them out.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

How much would it cost to extrude hone the base, and buy the runners?

Is it still a cost effective upgrade at that point considering there are other options that get you the same power level with newer technology and better upgrade potential?

KNBlazer

is that this century or next ...

Atilla the Fun

IDK the cost. There are other, cheaper ways to get 457 HP, but there is NO other way to get a TQ curve THIS strong from a n/a, pump gas 383.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

It's $193 to get your plenum extrude honed, $270 to get the runners done, and $435 to get the base done. Or, for $803, they'll do it all.

http://www.gethoned.com/parts.php?ge...how=automotive

For the money, I think I'd rather get intimate with a die grinder and some carbide bits.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

The truth in torque curve numbers comes from those who purchase the product, and put it to the test. Prior to this.... quoting numbers is nothing more than fodder for the public, and, as far as I'm concerned, is also the real reason why it's been delayed time and time again. I agree with Jim, one should get acquainted with a die grinder and upgrade the stock setup.

Atilla the Fun

Of course they don't want to release it until it can show a gain worth the cost. And they can't surpass that at any cost. Either copy it, or add boost. If BBK was smart, they'd just reproduce the GM plenum design, since there aren't enough of them to go around. As it stands now, not everyone who wants one can have one, so they have to do something else instead. Took me 15 years to get one for myself.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

It took you 15 years to find a stock plenum?

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

cant believe it. i thread thats been goin on since 2004 and not ONE fight between a thirdgen member to another. i swear every thread ont his site has some sort of hijacking and some sort of arquement (between members). thanks BBK! you made us focus our hate on somebody else!!

when it comes out, and somebody actually buys one, and they dyno, please let us know the numbers.. i bet its like 35 hp and 40 ft lbs. with 800 bucks you could save just a little more and buy an LS1 with harness and everything. if you were saving to buy one since 2004 waiting for this to come out, you could prolly buy a new LSX with a new 12 bolt rear and a rebuilt T-56 by now

406z

BBK has a dyno sheet on their website claiming an increase of 50 hp on a stock motor.
http://www.bbkperformance.com/produc...?car_motor_key[]=1225

Pricing is available, but no instructions.

85berlinetta2.8

still subscribed.... cant wait

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"Pricing is available, but no instructions."

No product either.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Lets put this into perspective. They are claiming 50 horsepower on a stock 5.7 BEING USED WITH their 58mm throttle body that you can buy at a reduced cost in kit form. They clearly stated that the throttle body helped the manifold produce 10-12 horsepower, so in essence the manifold "alone" would likely produce around 39 horsepower on a stock 5.7 TPI (this doesn't go for the 5.0's), and let us also remember that they're quoting FWHP numbers that nobody else can confirm but them. Clearly not worth it for the money that they are asking, especially when you can siamese your stock manifold and make just as much power with a larger throttle body, while maintaining your original EGR for emissions....

Tom 400 CFI

FYI, that "50hp" is at something like 5800 RPM...WELL past the hp peak for both the stock intake AND the BBK intake. Power is on a dramatic downward slide, but the stock TPI is dropping faster, so it makes the BBK look better. Actual peak hp differences are ~10hp, IIRC.

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

ericjon262

it just shifts the power band higher, notice the lack of low end? unless it's emissions legal, I'll go ahead and call this useless because you could get similar results with a HSR now instead of ????

watajob

iTrader: (29)

I don't think it took this long to build the pyramids.

RMK

The BBK pyramid took this long. In fact, it's still not finished.....

86IrocLewie

Is it just me or does the plenum area above the BBK runners look too thin to move a lot of air? The Accel runners seem to be very similar and look at the much larger space above them in the plenum.

wanab03ss

iTrader: (20)

[quote='Ca[maro]88;4518913']cant believe it. i thread thats been goin on since 2004 and not ONE fight between a thirdgen member to another. i swear every thread ont his site has some sort of hijacking and some sort of arquement (between members). thanks BBK! you made us focus our hate on somebody else!!



No way, theres gotta be a 305 or 350 argument somewhere in these 20 pages,,,, just doesnt see right if there isnt.

redcorvette

[quote='Ca[maro]88;4518913']cant believe it. i thread thats been goin on since 2004 and not ONE fight between a thirdgen member to another. i swear every thread ont his site has some sort of hijacking and some sort of arquement (between members). thanks BBK! you made us focus our hate on somebody else!!

Isn't it nice to see a thread about a mythical thing bring out the best in us. But I do have a problem with some of the posts that unfairly compare the BBK to either BigFoot or the Loch Ness Monster. There are people that claim to have spotted BigFoot or Nellie. Someone even saw Elvis at a 7-11. Not so much with the BBK so far, although Jegs still lists July 7 as the shipping date so maybe 26 sleeps...

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

[QUOTE=redcorvette;4576081]I though Ive seen a BBK intake in the hull of Elvises boat.. You know... Biggie, Tupac, Elvis, Lennon,all chilling at "Conspiracy Island".. I even thought I spotted MJ off in the distance too....

rustbird77

iTrader: (2)

It would be interesting to see this intake on an engine that would be beter suited to it. The stock TPI cam and heads probably are not.

I wonder what it would do for guys who have TPI383's or even 350's with a larger cam and possibly better flowing heads. Perhaps it will prove to be less of a restriction.

It just sucks that the price has gone up so much. I think that BBK has really missed a big opportunity here...

watajob

iTrader: (29)

Yes, indeed.

BadSS

I agree, here's an old shoot out article that a member put into a spread sheet and excel chart. Stock base line was 252HP and the FIRST dynoed 274HP. This is in the dyno cell, but interestingly enough using 20% loss for rwhp,,, the base line is 202 HP and the FIRST is 219HP with the FIRST making more power over stock as low as 2500rpm. That's compared to a 200hp base line and 209HP for the BBK on their dyno runs,,, and the BBK doesn't start making power over stock until past 3800rpm.

The AirSen line is the FIRST and the SLP line is for a protype "short ram" that looks a lot like the StealthRam.

406z

Hence the claiming, I'd like to see a member review before I hold any set belief on this intake.

Jegs says if you buy it today it ships in six. What are the odds it actually ships?

Drac0nic

If you look at the graph yes it shifts the low end. Without calcing back to the torque graphs I would have to say just by visually interpreting the graph that average HP is gained even though it looks as if the 90% of peak HP range has been reduced by almost 1000 RPM. That being said you have to consider it's a bone stock engine. Throw an aftermarket cam or even an exhaust at this and you've got something. Throw some heads on there you've got something else entirely.

This being said I wish they would offer it sans base, as this limits what it can be run on (people with Vortec bases for instance) and it would make the price point likely to be competitive with something like a set of runners. If you could get a whole upper intake for the price of some AS&M runners that will probably out perform them why wouldn't you?

The other question I have is how much vaccum did the stock TB have on the new intake if you don't mind me asking.

ED:

The graph actually shows 5100 RPM and is 90% of the peak HP. VERY useable HP. As I said I'd be curious to see a multi part build on this where they threw some exhaust stuff on it too. The differences would become even more glaring probably, without even cracking into the long block. You can definitely see where the TPI starts dropping off, and a base like this would even let you take advantage of more gearing which would help a N/A engine like this out a great deal.

Tom 400 CFI

You're right. I could remember precisely what RPM the "marketing number" came from, until Vetteoz graciously posted the actual graph for us. But you are right; you are still putting more tq to the rear wheels in 1st gear (even w/the T5) at 5100 RPM with that intake, than you would be in second gear, at the resulting 3334 RPM you'd hit in 2nd gear. So yes, you are making usable hp still, and a lot more of it, than w/the stock intake.

HOWEVER, this doesn't meant the BBK is a "winner". What aftermarket intake ISN'T, when comapred to a box-stock TPI?? We have to see how it compares to the other aftermarket options still. We may never get that chance at the rate things are going.

Something that I think is funny from this: I have a friend that has an '84 'Vette (CFI 350). He has ported his intake fully (something most CFI "Porters" don't do), and replaced his aging short block w/a less aged '97 Vortec long block. We used a chassis dyno to dial it in, and with the ported intake only and an unlocked converter, his car put down 212hp @4200 and 277tq @~2800. What I think is funny is that junk yard dog Vortec and a ported CFI system would match or likely beat that BBK on an L98.

I'm not a fan. Between the looks (reminds me of a GM 3300 V6 intake), base w/crappy head entry angle, and the fact that you can't even get one...I'm not "feeling it", w/the BBK.

burnout88

BBK's current response as of today 7/16/10

"Unfortunately, the release date has been pushed back. I have no current ETA"

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Why even bother..

92droptopws6

iTrader: (10)

well, i understand R&D however, the amount of time this has taken along with the anticipation by those of us that were expecting to have yet another alternative to the restrictive TPI this thread is beat!

kad5118

well hell for the price that they are asking for you are better off buying a mini ram

spade

iTrader: (3)

i think the second coming of jesus will happen before this

RS Chris

Hell jesus will have been back a few times with gifts, no BBK intake though. He can only do so much. I wonder how many LS1 and rustang intake and parts they whipped out in the last six years. With the amount of R&D they have in that damn thing and the price, it had better make love to me and cook breakfast the way I like.

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

we should just forget about it

then they may tune into us tpi guys

or when all the cars get to the 25-30 yrs old mark

you do the math

RPOL98

and in the meantime Edelbrock came out with the ProFlo XT, it went from idea all the way to "now shipping". I think you can buy the manifold separately.

it probably obsoletes everything else...

BBK missed the boat.

$750 L98

Jesus, this thing is still going on? I replied to this thread like 5 years ago. Why would anyone go with anything other than a stealth ram now? (other than emissions BS)

In fact haven't most moved onto LSx swaps and 4th gens?

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

Shock Update
Doesn't make enough Hp so going back to R +D

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1575872539-post1.html

transam85dudeman

so its official then,,,they scraped the turtle ram due to unsatisfactory hp gain..no more turtle ram... bbk failed.

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Yup no surprise there, they will probably have to come out with something completey new but safe to say this project is dead.

Maybe well see the prototype show up on ebay or something lol

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

BBK failed when the Marketing Dept announced it before Production Dept had it ready for the shelf

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

Oh well im sure after a few years of waiting most people realized this was gonna happen anyways.

Drac0nic

JMO on this it's sorta funny. I have a few books on the subject of intake design, and there are plenty more out there. The equasions are not overly difficult either. Give me a fab shop, a few hundred in supplies and some labor hours and I could come up with a manifold that would perform well at a price that would be market competitive and have good gains.

ED:

The other thing I got is why did BBK make a TPI based system in the first place if they only were going to sell it with a base. If you don't have a base you can do so much more with a system such as this in regards to engineering it and if you're going to pre package it with a base there's no reason to use it. The prices they were talking about were in the 700 range. A base typically goes for 200 and runners go for 500. If you could make it where you could have the whole setup for a price of some runners you've got something IMO. It's still a bit over priced for what it is but at the same time the lack of competition seems to be driving the prices in this market up.

Pab's

iTrader: (2)

HAD TO BRING IT BACK TO LIFE!!!!


Just received an e-mail from them

"Unfortunately plans to produce that manifold were put on hold. I have no ETA at this time."


So pretty much it was scrapped and will never happen.

B4Ctom1

BBK needed to produce this project back when they made their intake with edelbrock back in like 1998-2000 (at the very latest) for it to be on par with cost, power output, and market interest. Ideally it would have been more useful back in 1992.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i have been watching that bbk tpi crap for years.... if they havent made one by now they arent going to make it...they should just man up and say that we moved on insead of leading people on.... the FIRST Intake is your answer if you want tpi looks... it my be expensive but its worth it...

???

iTrader: (5)

bump for sport