Oshdog

I was wondering if this new crate motor from the GM performance parts would work with my Tune Port Injection system (87 MAF). Fist things to come to mind is will the intake bolt on, and will the oil pan be too big for my 3rd Gen?

http://skillmanracingparts.com/Merch...egory_Code=GPE

I know it is not a roller cam or lifters but it is bran new and cheaper than I can get my old motor rebuilt for (for the 2nd time).

Or any other suggestions on what new GM crate motor will work with my T.P.I system in my 3rd gen car.




"12499529 290HP Motor
Code: 1317
Price:$1,750.00

Shipping Weight: 350.00 pounds

12499529 G.M. Performance Parts 290 H.P. 350 Crate Engine This engine is based off of the Popular 10067353 Universal 350 Crate engine . This is a great entry level replacement engine for older cars and trucks, and a great basic street rod engine. All of the parts in this engine are Brand New. Our lowest priced crate engine. This HP 290/350 is the best value crate engine from GM Performance Parts, with 290 horsepower @ 5100 RPM, and 326 lb-ft. of torque @ 3750 RPM on 87 octane fuel. The HP 290 horsepower will provide great durability because of its 4-bolt mains, PM steel rods, strong cast aluminum pistons. The camshaft has .450" intake and .460" exhaust lift with hydraulic flat tappets. The cast iron cylinder heads have 1.94" intake and 1.50" exhaust valves wit 76 cc combustion chamber. These heads have the conventional 90 degree with 12 bolt intake manifold attaching design used from 1955 thru late 1980 12 bolt postion @ 90° to the intake/headflange. This engine was designed to work with the following components: intake manifold 10185063. HEI distributor 93440806. balancer 6272221. flex plate 471529. Bolt on the starter,water pump, fuel pump, and your ready to run. This 350 engine is not intended for marine use, and should be used in 1979 and earlier pre-emissions street vehicles or any off road usage"

firebirdjones

I am not sure my answers will help you but I can tell you a few things that I have found while checking into the same thing.
This engine has the older style cylinder heads and the center 4 intake bolts are at a different angle, so the TPI base will not just bolt on easily, I believe that the base can be modified slightly to get the correct angle for the intake bolts but don't quote me on that. Also this block is not roller cam ready so a retrofit kit would be required if you want to keep it a roller cam.
I can tell you what I am going to do, and you get a better bang for your buck, I am looking at the Vortec crate engine from GM that is rated at 330 hp. Although this engine does not have a roller cam it is a factory roller block so everything will drop right in. As for the Vortec heads, Edelbrock and Scoggin Dicky both offer a TPI base that bolts to vortec heads so the TPI setup is a simple bolt on. This is the route I am going to go when it comes time for a motor and it only cost $2,200. I believe the Vortec base is around $400, and depending on what roller cam you choose to use, I am looking at the factory roller cam used in the 383 crate engine which keeps the lift right around .450 or so which is perfect for stock vortec heads, no mods required, drop it in and go, should make a ton of power down low where a TPI wants to run anyway. And I can do it all for around $3,000 or so which is still cheaper than rebuilding the current engine, atleast the way I rebuild them anyway. Just another option, Larry.

Poncho Villa

First off, I don't know enough about motors to answer your question. But I will say that I've seen other threads discussing rebuilt L98's, etc. Your motor, rebuilt with performance parts, for around 1300 bucks, and you know everything will bolt right up, plus it has the heads you want. I don't remember the name of the company, have it listed on another computer, but if you do a search for rebuilt TPI motors, you'll find it, everybody that used them was happy.

Another company I found on the net, same price, around 1300 for a rebuilt motor, with the option of adding perfomance stuff, plus you get your core deposit, or they will rebuild your block:

Results

HiPerformer® Remanufactured & Rebuilt Car Engines, GM, Ford, Chevy ...

... Our HiPerformer™ Engines rebuilt to IMPROVE not just REPLACE! _ Our Marine And Automotive Engines Built To Last! 100,000 Mile / 7- Year Warranty Engine! ...
www.hiperformer.com

Just my .02, but these motors were designed for TPI, might save tuning headaches to use something closer to stock.

Parrydise7

iTrader: (1)

Just thought I'd let you know that the same engine is $1520 at gmpartsdirect.com:

only to local fedex hub 4 pickup)
PACK QTY: 1 CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $2,171.43
OUR PRICE: $1,520.00

Unfortunately, that does not include shipping, which will drive the price up, and gmpartsdirect.com is notorious for gouging on their shipping.

Captain C

Basically you have a "Target Master" engine with a 350hp 350 cam in it. You can buy the crate motor for $1150 and an aftermarket equivalent cam for $120....... You also have the aforementioned mounting problems with the intake. Not to mention a 60's era combustion chamber design.

As to the 330 HP motor, if you have to do smog checks, you have no EGR crossover ports in the Vortec heads, and you will need a new intake manifold.

What I would do is rebuild your shortblock using hypereutectic pistons (after checking for the best prices around) install either the ZZ4 cam or the cam out of the 330hp motor along with new valve springs. Choose the cam based on what you really use the car for, not some dream. You can build the dream motor as a whole unit later.

Since you are on a budget, see if you can get a buddy to pocket port your heads and add some new valves with backcut stems to aid in your flow... Later, when you have a little extra cash get some AFR heads. They will outflow the Vortecs, have the EGR passages, and you won't have to buy a new intake manifold.

asaman97

Can someone please tell me if this engine will work with the tpi?
http://www.blueprintengines.com/index.php/products/bp-gm-crate-engines-landing/gm-355-main/item/gm-355-base-bp35513ct1

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Well the TPI is only an intake, so really any engine will work. There are however some more specific things to look at.

Assuming you have a thirdgen, will the oil pan fit in your car? (I don't know).

Will the computer in YOUR car being able to operate that engine? Probably not without some custom tuning.

Are the heads drilled for "early" style intake manifold bolts? Probably. Your TPI however may have the "later" style bolt holes. It's all in the angle that the bolts line up at. It's an easy fix for a machine shop or little time in your garage with a grinder. I used to know which years were which, but honestly, I don't remember. Point is, look into that.

That cam is actually not too bad for a TPI, but the 110 LSA can be tricky for tuning. Again...you'll probably have to tune it.

It's a 1 pc rear seal, so you've gotta make sure your flywheel/flexplate bolts up. Again, depends what you have now.

My advice is to read as much as you can. Thirden.Org is an awesome resource. That being said, answering question like this are so hard. Will TPI work? I mean you can make a TPI "work" on anything, just about. Depends how much time, money and knowledge you have. What are your goals? There are a ton of people with TPI's that "work" but are far from ideal.

If you want a "yes" answer, then plan to swipe your credit card, get the motor on Friday, install Saturday, and be running by Saturday night, then NO, it won't work. If you're willing to spend a little more money here and there, ask the right questions, do some tuning, etc. etc., it would probably make a pretty nice motor. ....but then, for your dollar, is it BEST....and down the rabbit hole we go!!!!!!!!!!!

asaman97

Thanks for the reply ! It's a 1986 305 tpi. Is it this year that the computer was shared with the 350 And you just switch out the PROM?

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Well, there was no 350 in 86, so you can't put in a '86 350 "chip" It just didn't exist. 1987 however, there WAS a 350, so if you had a STOCK 305, and you put in a STOCK 350, then yes, you could get ahold of a 350 tune or "chip", and it would work. HOWEVER....that motor you listed is NOT stock, so even though the displacement is 350, it won't work. For the most part, anyone on this site who has an electronically fuel injected engine, and has more than very basic bolt on parts, has a custom tuned ECM/computer.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

So I'm assuming you have a stock 1986 305 TPI? ....and it's tired, or you want more power, and were looking at the BluePrint motor? ...aaaand you were gonna just swap your TPI over, right?

asaman97

Well I knew that I had to get different injectors, ECM, and tune. But I didn't know that they didn't make 350s in 86. I must've misread something. But yeah your on the right track 😂

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Well you don't need a new ECM, you just need a tune(chip) custom programmed for that BluePrint motor, and that will operate on that ECM . Whoever programs it can make it work with your ECM. Nowadays, a LOT of people ARE in fact replacing their ECMs when they do swaps like this, but it's not because they have to per se, but because there are so many options with much better technology. That, and the older the ECM, the fewer the people out there tuning for them. I actually have a newer ECM set up for sale if you did decide to go that way, but honestly, I'm not sure we're ready to get into that just yet!

...and yes, you'd need bigger injectors. Stock 350 was 22#, but you'd probably be better off with 24# to 30# range. As long as the injector flow value is programmed into your tune, you can use pretty much whatever, within reason.

...and definitely NO 350's in 86. At least in our F bodies...ALTHOUGH....they might've put the 350 in the corvette in 86. You know, I honestly don't know. I bet they did. ....still.....that BP motor will need a custom tune.

asaman97

So I don't replace my ECM. What about my ESC module and knock sensor? And also some guy told me that if I run my 305 ECM it would lean out the engine and cause a piston to melt, even with a tune.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Well when you take advice, just be sure it's apples to apples. Not saying your guy is wrong, just be sure you're both on the same page. There's nothing "305" about the ECM. It's just running a program. Sure, if that program is wrong, you could lean it out, but as long as you're commanding the right amount of fuel, with the right injectors, the ECM doesn't care what the engine size is.

...and just to be clear, I have an 89. Not sure what ECM is in the 86. I KNOW my 89 ECM can accept custom tunes for some fairly stout builds, with stroker motors, aftermarket heads and cams, etc. etc. Again, so long as the tune is properly done, the ECM is simply running a program. I would assume the 86 is fairly similar (if not exactly) the same.

...and let me also be clear that 1986 is 30 years ago. There are FAR better engine management systems you can use. I'm not saying NOT to change the ECM, simply that you don't HAVE to change the ECM.

asaman97

Okay. So let's say I install the engine. Could I run it on the stock tune to adjust the timing and drive it to a shop to get tuned?

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

ehhhhh honestly, I don't think so. From a 305 to that BP motor, there's quite a difference! ...but i've spent a long time learning what MY motor and car and ECM will do, with the changes I want to make, and what changes I'll NEED to make to keep it running. While a lot of that knowledge crosses over to other years, and to other hot rodding and wrenching in general, some does not. I feel like I know my way around enough to offer the general advice, but you really gotta do your own research. I know, you are, which is great. ...I kinda like to hear some other people's opinion on this discussion if they care to chime in.

Changing from a 305 to a more performance oriented 355 had a tendency to find OTHER problems as well, not just the literal black and white. Transmission and fuel pump are two things that come to mind right away. On a 30 year old car, there's no telling what a fresh motor will do to those parts! There's just a lot that goes into something like that.

asaman97

So I would have to take out my ECM and take it somewhere to get tuned?

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Well in the good ole days, you could give someone your engine specs, cam, etc. etc. and the "good" tuners could give you a mail order tune that would be pretty good. Nothing is as good as actually having the car present, but they could get pretty close. ...and they'd just put the chip in the mail, and you'd take out your old, and put in the new. ....the only issue there would be finding someone who would do that. As the technology gets older, finding tuners is harder and harder.

I've heard a few people have talked to a guy on Facebook. Custom Chips Inc. ..don't know him, but you could send him a message, explain what you want and see if he could help you.

Fred SS

iTrader: (3)

That's a nice motor. I've looked at Blueprint engines myself. You will need to at least get a 350 TPI chip, 87 or 88, and install it in your 86 ecm. The motor will not run very well with the stock tune. The BP motor has way better heads than stock and a bigger cam. The stock tune will cause the motor to run real lean. Also, the heads on the BP motor probably do not have an exhaust crossover/egr, so you will have to at get a tune and delete egr. Unless you decide to run an external egr. Plan to get larger injectors too.


I would suggest you tune it yourself. I was reluctant to get into tuning, but taken one step at time, it's not hard to learn. There is allot of info on this site in the stickies concerning tuning and the members are very knowledgeable.

asaman97

Can I get that egr delete in the chip for my ECM?

bigal55

iTrader: (1)

Your 86 ECM (165 MAF) is the same as all the MAF ECMs up through 89. 90 changed to SD (730) ECM. The vette used the same ECM and had aluminum heads so that may be a good starting bin. Your 86 TPI base has the old design bolt hole angles so that should bolt right up. Really, putting that motor in your car should be easy. You will want to change the knock sensor and the ESC module to 350 compatible parts but that is no big deal. Get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, bigger injectors and a stock 88 or so vette bin to start with. Then you need to start learning to tune yourself. As long as your conservative, you won't melt down the engine and you won't have to pay for a mail order tune which you will inevitably be making changes to anyway. JMO!

asaman97

So can I tune the chip to get rid of the egr ?

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Yes