formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

Ok I have a really dumb question whats the difference between the vortec balencer and the regular one I assume the thickness to clear the crank sensor right?

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Yup. The snout on the balancer has to be machined down the thickness of teh crank reluctor ring, so that the balancer doesnt stock out farther and mess up the pulleys

scuzz

Best thing to do is go to junk yard and get balancer, reluctor ring, timing cover, coil, and dist from a junk motor at yard. Then, you have it all.
I got the whole pile for 35.00 and take it off a couple weeks ago.
It would probably cost that much to pay a machinist to trim off the balancer.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

True, but if your balancer was balanced with your current rotating assembly you wouldnt be able to switch. Plus you cant buy Hi-Performance balancer.They are all standard OEM 8in. It did cost me 35 to get the balancer done. Apparently where you live there is alot of cheap places as every place around here wanted 20 for the balancer and upwords of 50 or more for just he coil and ig module. The going rate for a used Vortec distributor over here was 150 bucks.

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

yeah and theres no F'N way im not gonna use my fluidamper

Guest

So what would prevent someone from running some sort of DIS like the CNP on a 4th gen instead of the Vortec distributor? Just the cam sensor?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Right, do not use a fluid damper for a performace motor. I can link you to a good thread on the subject if there are any doubts.

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

I would like to see this link

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Here you go. Read through all the posts as you will get different points of view. You will notice some bigtime engine builders replying to the thread.
http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5135

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Couple of questions for those in the know? Looking at the computer on the pictures that Mikos1980 kindly posted it looks as if the new harness will allow the 411 computer to fit in the same spot as the old TPI computer. Is this so?

Also with the new harness I assume the firewall plug for the main harness will fit in the same spot as the old TPI plug even though it has more wires?

Just trying to gets things squared away in my mind. Thanks guys.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

The ecm will fit up there with no probs. As for passing though the fenderwall area. Its through there but the square snap in piece behind the fender doesnt work anymore. I dynamatted that area to cut down on noise and and water that may get up in there. As for the connector on the firewall, you use your stock one. You have to merge that area of the orig harness with the new harness.
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I'll try to get more pics this weekend.
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Guys.... Let me know what you want pics of and I'll get them. Also, when I get a new harness from Mike for Justins car, I will show you how to merge them together with the stock harness .

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Thanks. As they say a picture is worth a thousand words. Allen

vernw

iTrader: (2)

That would be great to see - especially the parts where they actually merge. Is that at the firewall connector, under the dash, or ???? (shows how much I know about doing this conversion, huh? )

scuzz

I posted the cal in zip format on the other thread if anyone wants to look at it. You'll probably need TCII.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...n-gen-i-2.html
Thanks,
Ron

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

I cant wait! I have almost all my parts for this swap. My harness is being made as I type this, and my O2 sensors are on the way! All I need now is a set of plug wires, a knock sensor....I think thats it!

You better believe Im driving to Ohio for this swap as soon as weather permits! I cant wait!
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also, does anyone here have an extra TBI harness that they want to sell cheap? I need one to hack up for my 411 swap

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

You got your timing chain set?

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

no

Randy92Z

iTrader: (3)

Im interested in doing this swap, but Im wondering about my TCI Super Dampner? Mkos1980, what exactly has to be done to the dampner to get the crank sensor to work? You mentioned machine work? I guess a pic would be great. Im using a ext. balanced 383. Thanks!

Also what are your thoughts on the 411 running a 520 hp 383 Miniramed car with 240/240 @.050 cam? Thanks again.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

you put a reluctor rung behind the timing cover. Its job is to help produce a signal for the crank sensor. Obviously the reluctor ring is going to take up a little space on the crank. All you are doing is machining the width of the reluctor ring off of the snout of the balancer so your balancer will fit back on all the way!

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Should be cake with a good tune.

Randy92Z

iTrader: (3)

Got it.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

got one of my two ordered O2 sensors yesterday lol. Still waiting for the other one. Going to get my plug wires, and Knock sensor this week. Timing set next week, then I jsut wait for the snow to melt

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Snow? What's that?

Randy92Z

iTrader: (3)

I think one of you guys should do a tech article write up on this. (please, and thank you) With lots of pics as you go about installing this. S10Wildside, Mkos1980 Maybe?

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Now that sounds like on heck of a great idea. Especially since this conversion has caught my attention as well...

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

I will try my best to start one up. I just bought a new house and that all I've been thinking about lol. But I will give a VERY detailed write up soon.

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

That would be awesome if you do!!

S10Wildside

I'm all for a tech article on this swap with pictures. I'm currently about two days behind in about everything at the moment. Then I came home yesterday to way too much snow and a snow blower that didn't want to run. Anyone have fuel injection ideas for a snow blower, LOL!

About the connector/grommet on the side of the car...I'd like to offer those with a harness, but the minimum order quantity is crazy. Now if we could get hundreds of these harnesses built....

scuzz

Maybe building that first harness for me will pay off now.
A sticky would really be nice.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Just picked up my 4L60E from the transmission shop. In all honesty, its 10* outside with 4 feet of snow. I will not be working on the car anytime soon lol. I kow mike would agree as he got blasted as well this weekend.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

wusses Its going to be 54 and sunny tomorrow. I think I'll go for a cruise

S10Wildside

Here's Justin's harness. It's not quite done...still needs labeled and taped up a bit, but the installer (Matt) requested that the loom not be taped up yet so the few extra wires from the original harness can be run through it.

This is a new fuel injection harness that does not include starter, charging, and A/C wires and connectors. The installer will splice this into the original engine harness after removing the old fuel injection harness from the original harness. The details in the next few posts basically cover most of the installation. For removing the old fuel injection harness, just think of the remarks below in reverse. I say most because the installation is different for every year car. Sometimes the fuel pump wire is in a different location, sometimes the battery fuse holder is on the passenger side, sometimes the car is equipped with an automatic tranny, etc. I won't go into details about all the specific differences throughout the years. This will be installed in a 1989 Firebird VIN 8 car (5.7 TPI).

S10Wildside

Here's the section inside the car. (The loom needs trimmed back). The sealed connector on the third gen harness can be carefully removed with a heat gun and installed on this harness. The bundle of wires will still fit inside the connector.

OBDII diagnostic port: This will completely replace the OBDI diagnostic port in the car.

Green/White and Yellow/Black wires: These are the VSS output wires from the PCM. The PCM can be calibrated to rework the VSS input and output the signal needed for the speedometer. This may get tricky depending on the year of the car. There are several different VSS configurations in the 3rd gen cars.

C207 Connector: This is the mating half of the I/P harness (dash harness). This supplies ignition power, engine malfunction indicator, park/neutral indicator, and alterantor & fan relay ignition power. This connector is different throughout the years. Some 3rd gens have the fuel pump power going through the I/P harness.


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This is the branch that runs down bank 2 of the engine.

Oil Pressure Switch: gray connector - top/right

Vortec Distributor Connector: black connector - middle/right

Coil and Ignition Module: tan connector and black connector - middle/left

MAP Sensor Connector: green connector

S10Wildside

This is the branch that runs down bank 1.

Labeled Injectors: this system is sequential fire

Alternator terminal F wire: this wire needs spliced into the original alternator wiring. If not spliced the alternator will not charge.


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This is the branch that goes down to the transmission and O2 sensors.

Reverse Lockout and VSS: this harness was built for a T56. The skip shift wiring was intentionally left out by Justin's request.

Heated O2 Sensors: bank 1 and 2 heated O2 sensor wiring

S10Wildside

This is the brake booster area.

Fuel Pump Relay: the fuel pump relay is mounted in the original position near the booster.

Tan/White Wire: to be spliced into the fuel pump power wire going through C100 (bulkhead on firewall). This is power from the fuel pump relay to the fuel pump.

Tan Wire: oil pressure sending unit signal. To be spliced into the oil pressure wire going through C100 for the gauges.

White Wire: tach signal. To be spliced into the tach signal wire going through C100 for the gauges.

Orange Wire: this is the 20amp battery fuse and holder. This gets connected to the battery to supply PCM, Oil Pressure Switch, OBDII Diagnostic Port, and Fuel Pump Relay power.


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This is the branch that runs down bank 2, near the throttle body. Many of these should be obvious (TPS, IAC, CTS, Injectors)

Dark Green Wire: A/C Compressor ON input to PCM. This will get spliced into the A/C wiring to let the PCM know when the compressor is ON.

Crank Position Sensor Connector: This wire runs down the front of the block and gets plugged in on the passenger side at the bottom of the block.

S10Wildside

Electric Fan Relays
The fan relays will be located in the factory position on the passenger side of the engine bay. The wires going to the fans and battery will be cut to length and new connectors are provided for the installer to terminate and install the new connectors.

S10Wildside

About the timing set. The GM heavy duty timing set is about half the price of the Cloyes set. It may be the same exact item. We're doing this conversion right now to a 33 ****** and the owner bought a new heavy duty single roller chain from GM that looks a lot beefier than stock. Matt confirmed that the Cloyes set is stamped GM.

Here's the ****** (5.7, MiniRam, LT4 hot cam, 411 conversion):
[img]

MattODoom

iTrader: (1)

Hey S10... how will the 411 handle boost? I was really hoping there was something out there for an OBDII boosted car.

S10Wildside

That would be an excellent question for the tuner...or Mkos1980 because he's installed this system on an 89 Camaro with boost.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

So the above harness would be indentical to my car except that I will be running the 4L60E. I have also converted to speed density. Looks very good. Thanks for the post.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Looks like excellent work! And thanks for the heads up on the timing set! Matt said the Cloyes set was stronger or something. Do you know the GM part number that was used in the ******?

Lextech

I haven't visited this thread for a while---LOTS of input. S10 Wildside, the harness looks excellent!, so does the ******. In post 68 I said I thought a V-6 and V-8 Vortec distributors were the same---THEY ARE NOT. The cam sensor trigger wheel ( the thing the rotor attaches to ) has different rotor attaching screw holes. This wouldn't matter if the Vortec had a traditional cap, but with the flat/crab style cap you would really have to jumble up the plug wires to set the correct firing order. Matt--EFILive offers a free downloadable 2-3 bar custom operating system for EFILive customers. I think HPTuners does also. I have the EFILive custom operating system on my 12200411 equipped 98 GMC twin turbo truck.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

EXCELLENT PICS and EXPLANATIONS!!!!

This is looking like on heck of a great upgrade for folks who want SFI......

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

When I talked to the cloyes guy, he said that the cam gear was an origional GM Iron gear (stamped with GM and part number) and that the crank was a special Billet gear unit along with chain. Thats all I know.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Thats because it is.

Who had the first one? I did mine in June 06, 1994 G10, TPI on the TBI 305 longblock, 1995 4L60E transmission, 1998 Express Van 305 PCM and harness.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Oct 06 and Nov 06

scribbles

Hail Hail !!!! this is simpley amazeing.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

woohoo! My harness is done!

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

PICS First one is of the 4 wire 02's, second is the bottom of the ecm and the other one is the top of the ecm

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

First Pic is of the Ignition coil and Ignition Module. Second is a top pic and the third is the timing chain cover and Dis from a 4.3L motor. Just change the cap Rotor is the same.