StevenB L98/LS1

I just finished installing the new intake manifold and the car wont idle. Its running very rich, the intake gets extremely hot. Its a stock l98 but sounds like a race car now with a huge cam in it. It just surges. I checked timing and installed everything correct. Did miss something along the injectors? Is there a certain order there suppost to go. Im also running with out egr i have. Block off plate over it. The intake gets so hot its insane. Driving down the road the car feels awesome with tons of power accept at idle. It basically runs like a built tpi motor on a untuned computer it seems. Could my ecm be junk?

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

It sounds like you have a vacuum leak, most likely due to a runner or manifold gasket not sealing.

StevenB L98/LS1

Im not quite sure where it would be if it was vacuum. I looked over the vacuum lines, only vacuum lines for the egr are not hooked up due to not using it. A vacuum leak would cause a rich condition? This is my first manifold swap on a tpi so im learning as a go. Do you think i need to take off the manifold and re install it?

StevenB L98/LS1

After a lot of thinking, you might have something there. Correct me if im wrong, but if a gasket or some part of the intake did not seal properly, wouldnt that create a lot of escape heat which in turn making the intake run hotter, with all the air escaping out creating a vacuum leak? Would that also create the car to run very rich? Or is it the air escaping from the intake actually do that?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I have seen guys install the egr runner gasket with the drivers side causing a huge vacuum leak.





These are installed correctly but if they are swapped from one side to the other you will have a bad vacuum leak. Spray carb and choke cleaner bye the drivers side runner bye the bottom next to where the pcv hose is attached.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

StevenB L98/LS1

Is that particular gasket inside a intake gasket set? Or would that come with the new edelbrock intake? I only got 1 gasket with the intake i picked up that looks similar to that (could be it) when i got the intake. Then just a few bolts. I had to make a lot of pipe plugs and mods because this intake was not similar to the stock one on the car. And the info said intake matches stock base. Well that wasn't the case. The new intake only came with that one gasket and just a few bolts and washers. Probably for the egr runner gasket im assume. Ill take the plenum off and the runners off tomorrow morning and check. This car is driving me nuts, dont know why, what should have been a simple intake manifold swap then the car runs like crap. Plus there were no instructions in the box either, so i was going off what i remember taking off the old one.

paulo57509

I installed one of these intake manifold bases back around 1990 and came across a whole bunch of install issues. I even wrote to Edelbrock about it. Good to see they've corrected the problems.

IIRC, Edelbrock didn't include any gaskets with the manifold. I do recall them recommending using Fel-Pro Print-O Seal gaskets and not the Fel-Pro Perma-Torque ones.

The runner gaskets are typically in the upper intake manifold gasket set.

When you re-assemble the runners and plenum, line everything up first before you start torquing the bolts. I start at the bottom and work my way up to the plenum.

StevenB L98/LS1

Thats what i thought, i bought the Fel pro intake gasket set. I guess ill take everything apart tomorrow and see if i missed something. I cant imagine what else it can be.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

the runner gaskets are included in the MS93318 , If you are using high flow runner you might want to use mr gasket 146. You might want to check for leaks before you tear it back down. propane works as well as carb choke cleaner.

StevenB L98/LS1

im using stock runners. the original intake was leaking oil bad, and the underneath it was completely bad, so i ordered a new one.

DrewsCam

iTrader: (2)

if the original was leaking that bad why was it leaking should've been the first question. was it a bad gasket seal or did something else cause it like warped heads. If the later is the case buying a new intake doesn't solve the problem. If you take it apart check the deck plane just incase. I do everytime i do a swap.

DrewsCam

iTrader: (2)

I also agree with tuner to check the gaskets for leaks which is major important..

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I believe he was fixing a oil leak between the intake and china wall.

StevenB L98/LS1

The flat serface near the front and back of the ports on the bottom of the manifold near the edges had no flat serface left. And oil was leaking out the back and front. The new gasket wouldn't even line up because the serface around the ports were nearly gone. I found my problem and the new intake is defective. Im waiting to hear back from edelbrock.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Just curious how the intake is defective porous casting ?

StevenB L98/LS1

The intake will not seal at all. Its losing all its vacuum out the back of the intake. And one of the threaded holes are completely screwed. this intake is just messed up totally.

StevenB L98/LS1

I discovered something else while i was taking it off the car today that i contacted edelbrock over the phone telling them this intake was not manufacturer correct. There is a hole through the egr passage inside that is leaking pass through the egr to the head. Explains why the car barely had vacuum pressure, and the intake was heating up like crazy. Its to dark to take pictures since its very small and you can only see it looking on the top of the egr hole where the valve takes place. I can stick a zip tie through the runner across the intake to the hole where air is passing through in the middle. I checked my original GM intake manifold and guess what...? There is no hole down inside the intake passing the egr. So now im waiting for another, to see if the next one is going to be correct.

I advise anyone considering buy the edelbrock to please check every little aspect of it, because i didnt, and ive scratching my heads for days looking for the problem until i inspected every little inch i could of the original to the new until everything started making since.

Grab a zip tie or anything small through the passenger side runner closest to the egr to check for any holes in it. I talked to a guy named smithy at edelbrock, he said it could be a chance local warehouses might have the same manufacturer defect. My local speed shop went ahead and ordered one from summit this time.

StevenB L98/LS1

I received my 2nd intake that was ordered from summit this time, and its the same as other intake ordered. Ive been getting numerous calls from edelbrock and having a conversation with there technicians. They were alerted and verified that the last batch of intakes they built are defective. They all have a hole that was drilled way to far into the drivers side runner near the egr which is sucking all the air, which explains why the intake is over heating. Theres only suppost to be air coming in 1 way and out 1 way on the egr. The hole was apparently drilled to deep and sucking all the vacuum. My car was only holding 7 lbs of vacuum pressure which explains why it was looping like crazy sounding like it had a huge cam.

If anyone is buying the intake, check before you install, edelbrock themselves are aware of the mistake said the warehouses were you order one will most likely be bad.

Btw im having to wait 3 weeks to get another one, they told me they are making new batches, and will be ready to ship out by june 7th is what they told me.

StevenB L98/LS1

Here are 2 pics of the original intake, the reason why i need a new one. There was hardly any metal left.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

ouch, did you have any pics of the defect one just curious.

StevenB L98/LS1

I dont have anything small enough to take a picture, because the hole is inside the intake. They drilled a hole to deep where air from left runners are coming through the egr passage.

burnout88

Just curious did you ever get a new intake that was not defective?

StevenB L98/LS1

i had to order the high flow runners and intake to finally get a good intake. part #3891 I believe. The set was built on different production run and different months, i received the last one out of edelbrocks warehouses, and it checked out good when i opened the box. im in the process of installing the runners and intake right now

burnout88

Thanks for the update. Sounds like they are not doing a recall and will just let the rest of the bad parts sit out there to be purchased. Typical. So the last TPI intake on the market is now defective. That really sucks because I really needed a new intake for my project. GRRR!!!

I guess I will have to try and find a clean stock one to port.

StevenB L98/LS1

Edelbrock is making new batches right now, but wont be released until july 7th i believe. The 3891 runners and intake wont be released until july 13th. This is information from the technician manager for edelbrock. Managers name is smity. But im not holding that to 100% true since they already lyed to me once back in mid may and said the intakes would be ready by june 3rd and practical wasted a month out of my time and inconvience. So i took a chance and asked if they still had a whole set 3891 available. Smity sent me the very last one available and addictional 350 bucks later i finally got a good intake.

StevenB L98/LS1

After install it runs, but the car has a high idle now. In park it fluctuates between 1100-1000, and about 800 in drive with 195 temp mark. Its never idled the high before. it you use to idle around 700 in P and 600 in D. Does this intake change idle?

burnout88

No, it should idle like a stock car.

StevenB L98/LS1

I reset the IAC and got it to idle a little lower. Im pretty much done worrying and just going to enjoy it as is. 900 in P and 700 in D i can live with, but it probably be sucking more gas.

ASE doc

One thing to note on the high flow bases, especially if you do use large tube runners. The stock runner gaskets, even the ones included in the Felpro set, are too small for the larger runners and are probably small on the Edelbrock base. TPIS makes a set of large tube gaskets for their large tube runners that fits much better.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Mr. Gasket also makes oversized gaskets. Part number is 146.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Mr-Gasket/720/...rentProductId=

StevenB L98/LS1

well this sucks, looks like i have to tear down the top of the intake again. i used the stock gaskets. are these the gaskets your talking about http://www.tpis.com/parts/view/22

ASE doc

Yes, those are the ones. If youre using the stock runners and haven't ported the plenum, the stock runner gaskets will be fine. So don't panic. They don't exactly fit the hi flow base ports, but they fit the stock runners, so they should seal fine. I just mentioned the large tube gaskets because they are for the larger runners.

It's cool to see that Mr. Gasket makes the large gaskets also to support the ACCEL hi flow parts. Edelbrock could be nice and supply larger tube gaskets with their base, but....

StevenB L98/LS1

Im just going to order those gaskets, and change them out when i get time. Until then the car runs and drives fine accept high idle, expected to pick up a better gain with power but i guess the wrong gaskets could be that problem.

ASE doc

To get any real gain from that manifold base, you need to combine it with high flow runners and a ported plenum. Then if you want to go much further, you need to look at the whole system and what you want from it. This is where we bring together heads, porting, camshaft profiles, etc to produce real power. At least with the purchase of that base, while you may not feel the improvement now with the stock runners and plenum, you are heading in the right direction.

StevenB L98/LS1

because edelbrock did not have a good intake baseplate, i had to go with 3891 part # which is the high flow runners and intake combo which is on the car now. and i found my high idle issue, theres a vacuum leak on the back passenger side runner due to me probably using the stock gasket in the first place, and its just sucking in air there you can hear it pretty well. Thats causing my high idle issue im sure of it. And i have to now take the entire intake off AGAIN because the stupid black rtv sealant didnt seal the back of the intake manifold properly and now im leaking oil on top of the transmission if the car sits for a period of time. I was still amazed when i checked the dipstick that it was full, because i drove it with that leak for 3 days atleast without knowing until now. A mechanic told me to use ultra grey sealant instead for the intake. So i might try that on the 2nd time go around since im ordering new high flow gaskets for the plenum and runners

ASE doc

After installing way too many SBC intakes to count, I have developed the following method that works very well for me:

After cleaning the gasket surfaces and end seal areas of the block and manifold, apply Permatex "The Right Stuff" to the end seal areas of the block in a bead about 1/4"-5/16" tall and wide enough to just about cover the width of the sealing surface. Do not use Ultra Gray or Ultra Black for the end seals as these products are too thin and don't produce a hardy enough seal. Apply Permatex "Ultra Black" around the coolant passages of the heads. Use a fingertip to smooth the Ultra Black to about 1/16" thick and 3/8" wide around each coolant passage and trace a line of sealant down to meet the end seals.

Now, lay the new intake gaskets in place against the heads, carefully so not to disturb the end seals you just made, and press them gently in place against the ultra black rings you just made around the coolant passages. Use only Felpro Perma Seal manifold gaskets(the blue ones). Then, apply Permatex Ultra Black around the coolant passages of the intake gaskets, the same way you did around the coolant passages of the heads.

Now, set the manifold in place lowering it vertically down onto the gaskets and end seals. Try to bring it down as straight as possible to avoid having to slide it back or forth to line up the bolt holes. You have to move fairly quickly through this whole process because the Right Stuff will begin to harden soon after it is applied.If you screw up(and be honest with yourself), start over from the beginning. Otherwise, the end seals and/or coolant passages will leak. Insert the middle 4 manifold bolts and thread them in, using light pressure on a ratchet handle, evenly in a circular pattern so that the end seals begin to compress. Then, insert the rest of the bolts, coating the the threads of all 8 bolts that go around the coolant passes with Permatex Teflon Thread Sealant. Take care lining up the bolt holes so not to break the seals you have formed.

Then, torque the bolts to 20ft lbs, following the factory recommended torque sequence(you can find it in any decent repair manual for your car). Let things up set for 2 hours and then torque the bolts to 35ft lbs.

StevenB L98/LS1

Thanks for tips. my gaskets came in today. im just waiting for the new bolt set to come in so i can tear it down again

ASE doc

These large tube gaskets are thin, as you can see. I paint them with Permatex Aviation Gasket Sealant to stick them in place so they don't get sucked in. Just a helpful tip.

89-GTA Ragtop

I purchased the kit (manifold & runners) last year in February from Summit, & finally got around to installing it a few weeks ago on my 89 GTA. At the same time I also put on a BBK 52mm throttle body. I have taken it completely apart once, & then just down to the manifold quite a few times & still at a loss. When I put it together the first time I used the manifold gaskets that came with the Edelbrock manifold. When I completely took it all apart I replaced the manifold gaskets with the Fel-Pro gaskets from the kit, & used the runner gaskets. I have been having all the same symptoms as FormulaKid. High idle, excessive heat, etc. I have to run it with my MAF disconnected. With it connected the car will start, then choke out & die unless I rev it several times. Eventually I can get it to idle (which is around 900-1200 RPM), but after a few minutes it chokes out & dies. I have replaced the MAF & both of the relays...still the same thing. I'm pulling the following codes with my reader:
12 -- naturally.
13 -- O2 signal low. Most likely due to having the following codes. O2 sensor is less than a year old.
33 -- MAF or MAP signal voltage high (low vacuum)
36 -- MAF burn off circuit problem (replaced the Burn off sensor & code is still coming up). This code is also a DIS/EST issue (extra or missing pulses in EST). Maybe the timing is just slightly off, but it's running at 8* BTDC. I don't have the sticker under the hood anymore. Wasn't there when I bought the car 2 years ago.
42 -- EST circuit open or shorted.

While running I can hear a slight "whine" sound, mainly on the passenger side, & have a feeling that's where the vacuum leak is. I torqued the bolts down to 18 ft-lbs as the Haynes manual said. Thinking that wasn't enough I upped it to 20 ft-lbs. Guess I am going to have to pull it all apart & check to see if my manifold is one of the defective ones with the hole drilled into the EGR passage.

leoman

I know it's an old thread, but it's a never-ending saga. Over at the vette site I had posted about having my Edel intake and runners leaking. The machining on the runners was so bad I actually broke the bolt flange at 19 lb-ft. Before that, 1 psi of smoke with a tester was billowing out of the runner flanges. They wouldn't seal, and that's with an Edelbrock base!

Since then others over there have chimed in with similar problems. BTW I replaced the runners with SLPs and they sealed fine to the manifold and the stock plenum. So it was the runners. Wonder what's wrong with the manifold that I haven't found yet!

StevenB L98/LS1

im sorry to hear that edelbrock is giving other people headaches over this intake. I just kept calling raising hell over at edelbrock mainly. I was spending hundreds of dollars of my hard earned money to them and i was getting screwed by them for 4 months over delays and lies, and promises not being kept, until smity finally found a old intake/runner combo #3891 in there personal warehouse that had been sitting around without there knowledge for a while. And i havent had any issues since i worked out all the bugs with the right gaskets and what not. Car runs flawless now.

BTW ragtop- run a flashlight through the driver side runner and check or wholes or just use a zip tie and see if it comes up through the egr. easiest way to tell, and if it does, its defective

I haven't kept tabs on this in a while, does anyone know if the intakes are still defective from manufacturer?

perfectcircle75

Its funny to read these posts cause the very first year those bases and runners were out, I think around 8 or so years ago i bought a set. Spent all weekend painting it and the cleaning everything and after i got it back together antifreeze was pouring out of the front of the intake...CASTING! I couldnt believe it. Like 800 bucks for this setup and got one that was junk?? So i called summit and they shipped another one right out and guess what?? Leaking again and twice as bad! I ripped it off a second time returned it to summit for a refund and kept mine stock ever since. I was very let down with edelbrock and they were no help at all.

King Thompson

Next to Center of runner do that need plug off on drive side

RPOL98

i installed one a few years back (my second one) with SLP runners, and it was fine, didn't need to do anything to prevent coolant leaks. the first one that i bought loooong time ago had that bolt hole a little too deep into the rear coolant crossover passage. the second one the bolt hole machining was fine no issues.

it was no biggie, i just put liquid teflon thread sealer on that particular bolt when i have to take the runners off the first one. the only vacuum leaks i had were from my own operator error (gasket location mix-ups). lessons learned.