PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

I'm in the process of removing the smog wires from the harness right now. EGR, smog pump, and charcoal canister are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head. There's actually not too many of them I'm sad to say

Most of them are sensors, can't remove a lot of them. There's also quite a few HVAC wires, but those won't be coming out.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

EGR, Smog, Air canister crap, A/C(unless it works then keep it) You be amazed on how much that is by itself.

Come to think I have about everything gone but its also not a car that has A/C or anything else that isnt directly related to the engine running. IE, no heater controls at all(Im not driving it in the cold anyways), no window washer pump(thats for alky reserve) and so on.

Andrew are you keeping the A/C.. it works doesnt it? If it does you better keep it or ill buy it off ya..lol Nothing better then running 12's with the A/C on!!

Dont forget to off those old 02 sensor wires.. dont need them anymore if your datalogging though the WB o2 brain.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Yep Mark, keeping the AC I've got all the stuff you've mentioned + cruise control removed so far. I'm keeping the Narrowband O2 sensor in and wired for now, since that's what the ecm sees. It won't do anything except keep from throwing a code, since I think I'll always be in open loop from now on.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Why aren't you using the wb sensor for the simulated NB??

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Cause I haven't applied the hack to the $6E yet that allows the WB to be a simulated NB

Pulled power steering (finally), I was putting that off for some reason...On to draining the tranny fluid, and getting all that good stuff loose.

Also made a Formula smiley avatar

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

You dont need a hack to make a WB a simulated NB... A simulated NB has absolutly nothing to do with the ecm.

Its as simple as using the simulated narrow band off the WB controler into the same pin out as the stock narrowband wire......

I told you that stuff a while back before you ever put the WB on.

I still dont know how you can tune well without that Linear signal being logged so you can read it back. Get on it bro! Get that hack and get that NB and WB hooked up and then make sure you can datalog that linear signal along with the simulated one. Dont wana tost that new engine let alone dont wana be that 12 second car that should be a 11 second car all because of a poor tune. Ill say it again as I know ive said it a million times... That cars outcome will be from tuning and datalogging (short of the instalation of all the parts and that it doent mechanically break from improper building)

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Improper building? What makes you say that?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

i just mean putting the engine back together that all.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Andrew. What size injectors do you have again?? 30lbs? Reason being I was woundering if your going to be close to maxing them out even if you push the fuel pressure up. Im not sure what your HP exspectations are. But if your aiming to get 11's in the 1/4 mile then you will probly arround 400 hp give or take. I would think more likely more since its a auto, no lock up converter and how much the car weights.

400Hp
43.5PSI
8 injectors
.55BSFC
80%DC
=======
35lbs injectors

400Hp
53.5PSI
8 Injectors
.55BSFC
80%DC
======
31 lbs injectors


Heres a thought... do you know of a adx file for your set up that includes the Injector DC?? Thats would be really convienent if you could get one. Then you would have a eaiser way to just look at a log and say, Ok im doing fine. Then you can then use that info on history tables and such. I know you can look at palse width but thats just not as convienent for the average tuner.

I never relized I was maxing out those 28Lbs injectors I had untill I got a ADX with that in it. After that I then boosted the Fuel pressure up 10 psi and it got me by for awhile. I was actually making those injectors go static and never new it....lmao Never a good thing to see 100%+ inject dc.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

I believe they're 30# Mark.

Took the block and heads to the machine shop last night, and its not looking as good as I'd hoped. There's an area in one cylinder that looks like either water was sitting, or there's a crack, so there's a possibility of needing a sleeve in it. The motor is not as fresh as I was told. Its been bored .020 over, and the deck has been straightened, although not nearly low enough. It's also looking like new pistons and rods, as suggested by them. Will know more tonight when I go back to help them. The heads look good though, and all parts are here for them. While we wait for parts for the block, they're going to get the heads done. Exploring lots of options now as far as the bottom end goes. I may be better off getting a package deal rotating assembly instead of just pistons and rods. Then that opens up the door to go 383. A lot of things to think about in the next few days. Some restrictions are I want to run low 12s, high 11s. Car will be TPI. I do not want to put a new rear end under it, which means don't make enough power to break the 10 bolt. A 383 might put me faster than I want to go, and that puts me closer to breaking the rear.

In other news, the 305 is ready to be pulled. I think I'll leave it in though, until I'm certain the new motor is ready. If it comes down to it, I'll run the 305 another year.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I'd start looking for a 1 pice rear main block!

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

I have my eyes out for one, but a coworker has offered me another flat tappet block for free. I'm going to have it checked out next week. What would suck about finding a roller block would be returning all my flat tappet stuff and having to get roller stuff lol. Still open to that option though.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I hear ya. If you bought the stuff from Jegs or Summit, they will be happy to take them back and upgrade you to roller stuff!

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Darn shame about the old block.

But whats the rush. Run the 305 this year. Get that rear in shape and the engine combo in shape this next year then the next year youll have a mean car at the track.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

The rush is I want to go faster Mark, you know how that goes if it comes down to it, I won't hesitate to put the 305 in it. I know that is capable of 13s with very little work after I finish the rest of the car.

In other news, this might turn into a 383 build. The price difference will not be much more than doing this 350 right. I won't make a final decision on that until next week when the other block is checked out. I may have to figure out how to slow this car down instead of speeding it up

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Well if you just run the 305 this year you can get your feet wet in running SPT all year. Then if you feel your good enough hit up pro next year. But then you have no choice but to get a 2 step box at the very least, as almost every one in Pro has one. Foot brakeing can only go so far in that class. But youll also already have a TH350 so a trans brake wont be hard to add.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

No way in hell am I moving up that soon lol. I'm thinking I'll go the 383 route, and have a tune for Wednesdays, and a tune for Saturdays. Wednesdays I'll open her up and let her go all out. Saturdays I'll go to a very mild tune, but enough to go 12.0x or 12.1x, and not be too fast for the 12.00 cutoff. First things first with this 383 though, new posi ASAP lol.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Y not step it up to a 401? That costs the same as a 383.
Yes it can be done in a 350 roller block ;-)

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Well you got about 80 days to get it ready for SPT then..... just saying.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

If you want to be successful in bracket racing, don't worry about going fast. Make a consistant car and let the fast guys break out trying to run you down.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Now that I think about it, I recall reading about some of those. That's a pretty big stroke lol.

Let's hope

I've found that I'm better at the stripe if I'm chasing, but I still need more practice. I'm not so concerned about going faster at this stage, but more of making the car reliable. For the not-so-different cost, I might aswell go bigger, and be solidly in the times I want to be in.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

We used to have a guy at the local 1/8th mile track with an 86 colt, he would dial in a 26.10, yes 26.10 in the 1/8th and would make it to the finals every time. The guys in real bracket cars hated him. But it worked, and he had more fun per dollar then anyone else at the track.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Im past the focusing on winning. I just having fun win or loose as im no bracket racer, im just a gearhead at heart. But what I want out of racing is different then the average racer. My cars just a toy and im racing myself for the most part. Thats why theres no sence in me running pts this year along with other things.

But andrew you can be a good racer if you just take it easy and dont rush the build. If you want a whole season at the track just tweak that 305 this year and dump the real beast in next winter. But thats a desicion that only you can make.

With any new set up, it could take 1,2,3 years before you get it dialed in to be consistant. The faster the car the harder it is to be consistant(generaly speaking for a street car) IMO

So If you dont get it(the engine build) done this year then just build it up and get it ready for next year. Then focus on that finishline and racing in general this year. Practicing guaging that end of the line. Thats were more races are won and lost. IIRC you had a few issues last year that I saw at the finish line. But your Rts were amazing your first year out and im not just saying that to be nice. You will always will see others issues before your own when it comes to watching/racing at the track. So learn and youll be a great racer in spt this year I know it weather your running 12's or 14's.

Your young bud and are really good at et racing. For your first year out you did very well and I cant wait to see you progress though this upcoming year. I wont be in points this year because of the new house and carrer but ill be there as much as I can to cheer you on.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Mark, that reminds me of TJ's Cavalier lol. That 18-19 sec car put a lot of 12.0x car drivers in a bad mood

Tonight I talked to Mark Frazier who is doing my transmission for me. Things are looking really good. A few more weeks, and mine will be at the top of the to-do list. Gives me comfort that the transmission is not something I'll be waiting on.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Mark know his stuff with trannys. You'll be in good shape. You going to the racers banquet?? If so ill see ya there.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Yep, I'll be there Mark.

Time to look into a nice posi too. I was going to see how long the stock posi would last with a mild 350 with stock heads on it, but now I don't think it'll last one pass with a 383 with Dart heads in front of it.

Right now the standard for the build is being safe to 600HP. That's what the bottom end is good to, that's what the tranny will be good to, and that's what I want the rear end good to.

Eaton of course sticks out as far as good posi makers go. Any suggestions for a type of posi, or a part number? It WILL be street driven, and it will see some power.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Eaton is a good idea. I have the alburn and got to finally drive it. Its amazing with the gears/axle/LSD combo. Theres no way to shake the posi on this thing now.

Contact Derek and or andy. They both have eatons. I believe Andy had one in a 7.625 also.

project89

iTrader: (1)

good choic eon not going with an auburn , but if ur upgrading a 10 bolt rear dont waste ur monry, by the time u pay for gears pand posi + install u will have a huge chunk of the money needed for a 9 inch 12 bolt or dana 60 that will never break

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

I'm seriously considering a 9inch right now. I don't want to have that worry always in the back of my mind if the rear is going to blow or not. What do you guys suggest?

In other news, ordered rotating assembly yesterday, and the machine shop let me do a bit of work on my heads. Pretty neat feeling of accomplishment working on your own parts.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

So what are the plans this season?? Or are you not planning on running the whole season?

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

That's the plan Mark. My goal is April 1st.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Pulled the motor and tranny today, together, by myself, for the first time lol. Nerves were insane to say the least. The only thing left on the car that needs taken off is the rear end. I've split my to do list into 5 major categories: Engine minus intake, porting my TPI, transmission, rear end, and subframe connectors.

The rotating assembly will be here late next week. Everything in that category is now out of my hands until it comes back. The machine shop is going to let me use their tools to port/siamese my TPI components free of charge, so look out for updates in that category in the next week or two.

I'll find out more information about the tranny next Saturday, but once that is set in motion, it won't be long until it's back.

SFCs, I have to finish measuring and order the steel. I decided to do an extra brace underneath the floor pan, since it really won't take too much ground clearance away. This will probably be my project while everything else is gone.

Lastly the rear end. I'm really stuck here. I never intend to put a cage in this car, so it'll be restricted to 11.50 or slower. Not sure if I should stick a posi in it and a LPW cover on it and call it done, or go to a 9 inch. I would love to go to a 9 inch just for the peace of mind, but I don't know if I can justify the cost of a bulletproof rear end for a car limited to 11.50s.

Then again, I never intended for this car to need anything done to the rear but a gearset...I also never intended to go 383. Who knows, maybe eventually it will see a cage? I just don't know if I can justify dropping $2000 into a rear end right now

Anyway, pics:


Out with the old.


Empty engine bay. Needs cleaned up a tad bit, then I'll finish the wiring.


305-700R4 combination. You can see the new TH350 in the background lol.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I'm struggling with the rear end delima now too. Not really making enough power to justify a 9", but still close to the breaking point of a 7.5"

I figure at least $1000 to build a solid 10 bolt vs $2500 for a 9".

Is it worth it? For my street car probably not.

For your bracket car, maybe, but then again, I have seen 11 second cars with 7.5"s last for years. Of course, I have also seen 13 second cars destroy them.


With an auto, and no transbrake, you are not going to be shocking the rear too bad, I think you may be okay.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Exactly! I think I'm at the point where I could go the built 7.5 route and it be okay, but I'll still worry about it in the back of my mind. A built 9" is overkill for my 11.50 car I may have to go that route just for peace of mind though. That brings up other issues though, like most 9" rears having disc brakes. That drags brake upgrades into the build, and I don't know anything about brakes other than they make the car stop

I'm worried that I won't be able to kill the 60' enough to be easy enough on the rear. I can lower timing and short shift the car to slow down the ET, but I can't really do much to slow down the 60'. Maybe launch the car at idle, and slowly ramp in the timing? But when I want to see what she can really do, I'm going to launch at the highest rpm I can. That's going to shock the hell out of a rear end being 383 and LTR design (sorta). Keeping an eye out for rear ends!

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

If you were just running street tires, they would act as a fusible link because they would loose traction long before the power really took effect and could hook up. That being said you would still be worried about the 7.5 inch rear end holding up.

Thats one of the questions I'm rolling around in my head with my Borg Warner 9bolt when I do a head and cam upgrade. I've got a stock head and cam L98 motor will full intake and exhaust bolt on mods and I'm over the 400 foot pounds of torque mark now. I know the Borg Warner rears are stronger than the 7.6/7.625 10 bolt rears but it's not by much. The Borg Warner ring gears are only 7.75 inches in diameter. I've got some room though because my car is a full time dedicated street car with street tires so I won't have the same stress on my car as you do with yours racing it.

Since you will be using that 383 stroker motor, drag racing your car on slicks - that really changes the equation. Your car will be making a lot of power and you will have the suspension mods and tires to effectively put it to the ground. That might mean bad news for your factory 10 bolt even if you built it up. Keep an eye out for a 12bolt rear. They aren't as expensive or strong as a 9 inch rear but, it should hold up to what your are trying to do.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/auto...ml#post5467921

Check out this link. This car is a clean 1988 IROC thats been modified with a heads and cam upgrade on a stock L98 block. He swapped out his Borg Warner 9bolt for a Moser 12bolt F-body torque arm rear end. Now he is in the process of building up a 427 cubic inch motor.

These are the list of performance mods that have been made to this car:

Engine:

L98: 5.7L 350 Ci.
AFR 195 65cc Eliminator Heads
Comp Cam XR276HR-10
Holley Stealth Ram Intake
Comp Cam hardened pushrods
Comp Cam Pro Magnum 1.6 RR's
Comp Cam Lifters
Double roller timing chain
ARP bolts everywhere

Rear End:
Moser Engineering - 12 Bolt Rear
Center Section: Detroit Truetrac - 33 Spline
Gear Ratio: 3.73

Exhaust:

Hooker 2055 Ceramic Coated Headers / 3" Coated Y Pipe
3" Catco Hi-Flow Cat
3" I-Pipe
Powerstick Muffler (Medium Length)

Intake:

Polished Holley Stealth Ram
K&N's
TPiS Throttle Body Airfoil
Gutted Airbox

Ignition:

MSD 8.5mm Wires
MSD Blaster Coil
MSD Cap/Rotor
AC Delco Rapid Fire Plugs

Fuel System:

Flowmatched 32lb Ford Motorsport Fuel Injectors
Holley Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator
Racetronix L98 Fuel Pump Kit
-Walbro GSS340M 255L/Hr Fuel Pump
-Fuel Pump Hot Wire Upgrade Harness

Suspension/Chassis:

Spohn Sub Frame Connectors
Spohn Adjustable Panhard Bar
Spohn Crossmember Mounted Adjustable Torque Arm
Spohn Front & Rear Sway Bars
Pro Kit Lowering Springs
UMI Lower Control Arms
UMI Tubular K-member & A-arms

700r4 Transmission:

Modified Probuilt Transgo shift kit

Cooling:

160 Thermostat
Fan Switch
Throttle Body Bypass
Stewart Hi-Flow Waterpump

Braking:

Zinc coated drilled/slotted rotors all around
Hawk HPS Performance brake pads

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/auto...ml#post5467921

Check out this link. This car is a 1988 IROC that has had a head and cam up grade on the stock L98 motor. He swapped out the factory Borg Warner 9bolt rear for a Moser 12bolt F-body torque arm rear. Now he is building up a 427 cubic inch motor for his car.

This is the list of mods that have been made to his car so far:

Engine:

L98: 5.7L 350 Ci.
AFR 195 65cc Eliminator Heads
Comp Cam XR276HR-10
Holley Stealth Ram Intake
Comp Cam hardened pushrods
Comp Cam Pro Magnum 1.6 RR's
Comp Cam Lifters
Double roller timing chain
ARP bolts everywhere

Rear End:
Moser Engineering - 12 Bolt Rear
Center Section: Detroit Truetrac - 33 Spline
Gear Ratio: 3.73

Exhaust:

Hooker 2055 Ceramic Coated Headers / 3" Coated Y Pipe
3" Catco Hi-Flow Cat
3" I-Pipe
Powerstick Muffler (Medium Length)

Intake:

Polished Holley Stealth Ram
K&N's
TPiS Throttle Body Airfoil
Gutted Airbox

Ignition:

MSD 8.5mm Wires
MSD Blaster Coil
MSD Cap/Rotor
AC Delco Rapid Fire Plugs

Fuel System:

Flowmatched 32lb Ford Motorsport Fuel Injectors
Holley Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator
Racetronix L98 Fuel Pump Kit
-Walbro GSS340M 255L/Hr Fuel Pump
-Fuel Pump Hot Wire Upgrade Harness

Suspension/Chassis:

Spohn Sub Frame Connectors
Spohn Adjustable Panhard Bar
Spohn Crossmember Mounted Adjustable Torque Arm
Spohn Front & Rear Sway Bars
Pro Kit Lowering Springs
UMI Lower Control Arms
UMI Tubular K-member & A-arms

700r4 Transmission:

Modified Probuilt Transgo shift kit

Cooling:

160 Thermostat
Fan Switch
Throttle Body Bypass
Stewart Hi-Flow Waterpump

Braking:

Zinc coated drilled/slotted rotors all around
Hawk HPS Performance brake pads

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

I'm looking into a Moser 9" rear right now, I think the peace of mind is going to be worth it. All I'll need to do is swap gear sets. Also, when I do eventually switch to a full drag car, I can swap everything over to it. My race car will of course be a third gen Firebird

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Do your self a favor and go with disk brakes, there so much easier to mess with then drums.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

That's what is on the 9" I'm looking at, LS1 discs to be specific.

Also looking at what different sized tires will do with the gear ratio I'm running:
-A 3.70 gear on a 25.64" tall tire (stock 245/50/16 tires/rims) will turn about 6000 crossing the stripe at 118 mph (11.50 ET)
-A 3.70 gear on a 27.61" tall tire (295/50/16 radial on stock rims) will turn about 5500 crossing the stripe at 118 mph (11.50 ET)

If the Nittos I have won't hook up, I may swap to a 295 tire. Love the look of a wider tire, it'll hook better, and it'll help slow me down a bit, but still keeping me solidly in the powerband. And it'll fit on the stock rim

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Those street tires are not going to hook up right i can guarentee you that If your considering racing with that 383 you better get some slicks or DR's.

project89

iTrader: (1)

drums are better for a footbrake racer since they have more holding power on the line

project89

iTrader: (1)

lol and anyone who says drums wont stop a car needs to drive this car

4 wheel manual drum brakes , runs mid to low 9's on pump gas

though we did have some problems with skinnys on the front and drum brakes so we eventually swaped the fronts to discs

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Don't know if I should consider that good news or bad news lol. Bad news that I won't be able to leave as high as I could with drum brakes, but good news that it'll force me to leave softer. That'll help keep the rear end intact (whichever way I go), and slow me down a bit.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I didnt say that disk brakes hold any better

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Looking into a set of 90/10 Lakewood struts for the fronts and 50/50 drag shocks for the rears. I want air under them tires! Also looking into a sealed battery box, and pulling stuff off the front WITHOUT touching the AC

May have Mark Frazier put a brake in the TH350 while it's opened up. Will it be used this year? Probly not, and if it is, it'll be at a TnT. But still, nice to have it ready to go for when it goes in something else.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i didnt say u did i was just posting that before somone said he wouldnt get the car slowed down with drum brakes

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Look into adjustable shocks. I got some kyb ones and love them.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Found these pics of a 295 tire in the stock wheel well. I like!

Undecided whether I should just get some now, or wait and see if the Nitto's hook. The 295 looks mean, I want!

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Any idea what bs is and how wide the wheel is?