PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Not sure in that pic, but I'll be using my stock 16x8 Formula rims with the original backspace. Minimum rim size of the tire is 8"

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I think 295's are a bit much for an 8" rim. I've seen it done, but you are going to loose contact. I would not go wider then a 275 on an 8" rim.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

The rim itself is either 7 or 8 inches. My stock 16" rims were 7 inches wide IIRC. But theres no way I would put a 295 tire on that if i wanted to drive it on the street like I do. It would be unstable and why do that when aftermarket rims are so cheep IMO.

Read up andrew. Dont over estimate rim width to tire width. Look into some Drs if you really are gonna get some new tires and want drag traction insted of corner traction.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/whee...re-8-wide.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/whee...ize-stock.html

The list goes on.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Formula rims are 16x8. An 8" rim falls in the range of the 295 tire. Of course there will be people that say it will work, and some say it won't work. That's the internet for you. How many times have you heard "V6's don't go fast" Mark? I know you would beg to differ. Believe me, I'm doing the research. IMO that wide of a tire looks amazing, and it serves it's purpose of more traction over a 245 tire.

Why would I be looking into anything other than DRs? I could care less about corner traction lol.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Sure dont look like DR's to me......

My underlieing point was why push those old tore up 16inch rims when aftermarket ones are so inexspencive anymore?? Why push the boundrys of a 8 inch rim. When a larger one will give a better contact area. Its not like your on a budget.......just saying.

BTW who said that a V6 cant be fast??? Ive never heard that. I just heard that it cant be done without a large wallet. But those are the same ppl that run N/A cars and live for that. You know that if you polled this forum that the 90% of the fast "street cars" have forced induction of some kind

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

The pic was just for showing what they look like, I'm not using those exact same tires...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mtt-3794r

There aren't many aftermarket rims that look good with Firebirds, imo. I like the look of the Formula rim, and that's what belongs on that car. I don't see the need to buy rims I don't like as much, that I don't need, when an 8 inch rim is in the range suggested by the tire manufacturer. It also keeps line with the sleeper look I'm going for, even if the tire is a bit of a giveaway. Every build has a budget Mark. I'm spending more than I originally planned on this car, but I'm doing it RIGHT. The extra money spent to do it right is worth the peace of mind. That's a pretty important thing for me. I'm doing it right the first time, so hopefully I don't have to tear down the motor after one season of racing to replace rings and bearings.

All the people that say "why waste your time with a V6 when you can go V8," you remember all those people? You've heard it a million times. What does forced induction have to do with this though?

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I'd still stick with a 275.

Look at real race cars, heck many stock class guys run a 9" tire on a 10" rim. You want as much of the tire touching the pavement as possible.

Squeezing 295's on an 8" wheel will not give you that. Instead you will be losing a lot.

I have had 295's on 9" rims, and that was pushing it. I have ran 275 on 8" and 9" wheels.

There are plenty of very fast cars on a 275 tire, so its not like you Need that much tire.

Save money, get better results, go 275 on your 8" wheel.

jhainer

I know everyone says I don't do facebook but this guy seems to be doing some good work. I know your getting your doing your intake but with everything your putting into that motor you might want to think about getting someone who knows how to do it I said that wrong you might want to get someone that has done many of them to do it for you so your not trying to learn all the tricks. I have the tools to do it already my son wants to port the tpi i have an extra. but I'm gonna send mine out. mine is a stock 305 in a 91 z but from what i read 20 hp just porting a tpi sounds good to me. now mind you thats the intake the runners and the plenum. I want to say for all its somethng like $350 bucks. other projects have come up so that is put on the back burner for now.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Hig...151556?fref=ts

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Look at the tires you're looking at and look at their minimum recommended rim width. I doubt ANY manufacturer will recommend anything widner than a 255/50/16 on a 16x8 wheel, and since there are very, very few 16 inch wheels wider than 8 inches, the selection is pretty crap tastic too.

A 295/50/16 will change the tire height significantly too, but maybe you want that?

I think you're barking up the wrong tree completely trying to fit wide rubbers on a 16x8. Just a bad idea and it wont get you any more rubber on the ground with a street tire because 245's are already almost too big for a 16x8. The tread is just going to balloon over because its being forced onto such a skinny wheel.

I say you should go with a set of these, if I had a 'bird I'd do it.

https://www.yearone.com/Product/1967...ird/sfw179blks

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Yeah, on a 15" wheel you can runa 275 on an *", but when you look bigger, like 17"s they recommend 9.5 for a 275.

295 on a 16x8 will be a disaster.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Would I go buy 295 Dr's and stick them on 16x8" rims on my car.... No way! Id go get a set of 9-9.5" wide rims and use them for DR only. Theres no way I would spend 500 bucks on Dr's and drive them all over anyways. Thats what street tires IMO. Everyones different though.

Can you put the 295 Dr's on the rims and be satisfied?? Sure I guess.

Personally I dont see why you just dont get real slicks. You live like 1 mile from the racetrack....

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Good news and bad news. Bad news, it's like 60 degress out in January, in Ohio. Feels like Spring time, and I have the racing itch again.

Good news is, well lots of it. Closed the deal on the 9". Going Saturday to pick it up. Rotating assembly for the motor came in Monday. Block was opened up yesterday from .030 to .040 over. We'll be clearancing the block for the stroker crank tomorrow, and decking it soon after. I'm estimating (and hoping) the motor is done by March 1st.

I also entertained the possibility of putting in transbrake provisions in the tranny while it's opened up, but I think I'm deciding against it. They aren't supposed to be installed on a car in the class I'm in, let alone wired up. It'd be neat to use in Test and Tune's, but I don't think it's worth it in this car for the present moment. One thing that turned me against it was the reverse shift pattern required for transbrakes. I'm using the stock shifter, which is set up for forward pattern. The shifter clicks in to downshift at every gear, and that makes it VERY easy to miss second in a reverse pattern. All the guys I know running reverse pattern use shifters that pull from first to second, then click for third. I could probably work around it, but it's just not feasible at the moment.

Also, I've begun work on the main attraction of this thread as of last night. Got a bit of work done on the plenum and runners last night. I'm sad to say that there's not much I can really do on the runners, because the radius is too tight. I can't get the grinder in there to work the runner all the way around. The only way I see to port the SLP runners is by cutting them or extrude honing, neither of which are desireable at present time. Because of that I'm a little let down, but I'm putting forth 100% effort into polishing all areas I can reach with the grinder. Plenum is coming along nicely, and one set of runners is done, minus matching to the plenum. I think I can be a little more creative with the base than I can with the runners, but I don't know how much effect it will have seeing as the bottleneck is further up the line at the 1.6" ID SLP runner. Also food for thought, I wonder when the stock throttle body becomes a restriction? Something to test during the season, no doubt. No teaser pics until tomorrow, parts are still at the shop.

Roughly 80 days until Norwalk opens up

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

What I did to mine years ago

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Stopped by the machine shop again today. Got the block washed and the deck height measured. It's .028-.032, so I'm going to have them drop it down to about .020 or so. A .020-.022 thick head gasket will put me in the perfect quench range. Also marked the block for stroker clearances. The crank spins freely all the way around, but just barely. It's so close, there isn't light between. Should finish that up Tuesday, then it'll be decked. Also get to drop off the tranny next weekend. Got my drag struts/shocks today, so those will find their way on the car in the next few days. Things are starting to come together!


Freshly bored block.


Cylinder wall.


Speed Pro, they're so pretty!


The build sheet from behind the front bumper. Still intact after 24 years. Although I must admit, nothing on there makes much sense lol.


Runner teaser pic. Not quite finished, but close. Base side.


Plenum side. You can see where I stopped polishing for the night, the area on the right tube is gray.


Full runner pic. Ignore the Sharpie lol, areas I marked that would need cut and welded to port all the way through. I think I may open up the top of the plenum side more, similar to TTOP350's. Still needs port matched to the plenum (which isn't done), but I left the bolts at home lol.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Road trip to Indianapolis, although not the greatest weather conditions for it lol.

I came back very happy with one of the most important pieces of the build, the Moser 9".





Moser 9" case, Moser 31 spline axles, Eaton Detroit TrueTrac posi, 4.56 gears in it, and LS1 disc brakes. Thanks Randy!

springer4

That thing is just SICK

quote=PhoenixFirebird;5480443]Road trip to Indianapolis, although not the greatest weather conditions for it lol.

I came back very happy with one of the most important pieces of the build, the Moser 9



Moser 9" case, Moser 31 spline axles, Eaton Detroit TrueTrac posi, 4.56 gears in it, and LS1 disc brakes. Thanks Randy![/quote]

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Badassss man, congrats.

cuisinartvette

If you want to do it yourself pm me we can exchange #s. Ill show you how
and get you the right pieces to do it . They are saveable

Or if youd want to send them over I can give them the love they need. Im not in here all the time pm if you like.

Those LTR are a PITA. If I everbought another LTR car those would get cut right in half, ported then rewelded so much easier. Costs more but so what.
Porting those absolutely sucks ACCEL even worse. LOL

Ive seen at least 3 new sets of SLPs..they all looked a little different. Some had almost no meat around teh bottom like yours others had plenty .Strange....

On tires...running 275/50/15 on 8 and its just right as said any larger will "roll" and hurt your contact patch. Coule make the sidewall run hotter also which isnt the best idea

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Sending a PM your way I just don't see how you would get a bit in there that would play nice with that sharp radius, but perhaps you have other tricks up your sleeve?

I agree with the LTR part. If I build another setup like this, I'll be building my own runners out of mandrel bends, like another member did on the TPI board. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...w-runners.html

As far as my runners, you nailed it lol. There isn't much material there at all for a gasket to seal. The guys at the machine shop said it'll be fine how it is, but don't take any more off. They also suggested taking a punch, and making a series of small dents around the edge, to give the gasket and RTV an area to bite into. For the record, I did not have any issues with sealing in that area when they were previously on the car, so it should be good. Keyword should

I may just bite the bullet with the tires and go 255. I love the look of the 295, but when I went to Indianapolis for the rear end, he had a set of 255 Mickey's on the stock rims. I will admit they didn't look bad. I'd like a 275, but I haven't seen anything from Mickey Thompson in that size. I'd prefer to stick with MT's, but I could go with another brand.

In other news, opened up the rear end tonight. He had 4.56s in it with the t56, but that's a bit too much gear for me. Should have a set of 3.70s in there by the end of the week. Possibly going to throw a coat of paint on the rear, but it's pretty cold out there lol.

cuisinartvette

I think they will seal ok and yes theres more room on those

I can get the whole thing but it really takes a lot of time to make a differnce and still not 100% convinced its "enough". hard to control a 6" carbide at low speeds AND get enough material out at the same time. It was frustrating. Guess the trick if you cut them is to make real sure they are welded up right so they seal LOL.

Im using a 275/50/15 M/T the sidewall isnt as short as a reg street tire is.
Not an F body but an 8 in rim. That what you wanted?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mtt-3753r

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

I'm looking into cutting them in half and having them welded up. That seems the easiest way to really port these.

As for the tires, I need a 16"

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Just buy some steel 8" rallies and put slicks on them for the track.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

That would be what i did last year (sorta) since i was in a pinch and didnt think my car would ever need traction like that.... poor mans racing at its finest. Free rims, free slicks! But I know andrew... hes not gonna do that, which is a good thing for the presentation of the car.

cuisinartvette

Doesnt have to be pretty at the track just function

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I would look for a pair of 15" firebird wheels, the slotted ones not sure what they call them.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Oh how right you are Mark Went ahead and got these while I was at Summit.





TCI full manual forward pattern TH350 valve body, Motive 3.70 gear set.

Did a bit of work on the motor last night, mainly clearancing.




Won't be back to the machine shop until Tuesday, when the decking will begin. In the mean time, I'm installing my sealed battery box in the spare tire well, and putting on my Moroso electric water pump. Also putting the front bumper back together after lightening up the front crash bar. Then I can move the car forward, and work on getting the rear end loose. Then in goes the 9"!

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Sweet man. Helll with the idea of getting a traior queen car in a few years. You got as many mods and cash in that car if not more, then most sportsmans cars at norwalk. All you needs a cage and 2 step and your talking pro class with ease. Looking good bud. Cant wait to see the final product in 2 months at the track.

Let me know if you ever want a 2 step. Ill give up mine to fund a megasquirt.

Also the chips came already, ill stop by next weekend.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

That's great Mark, you can see what a mess I've got here lol.

Bought a 2-inch holesaw, and went to town on the front crash bar. It now has the appearance of swiss cheese. Pics tomorrow. Please don't criticize me for "making the car less safe." This car sees more time at the track than on the road. I haven't removed it, I've just lightened it up by punching holes through it. I wanted to retain the mounting holes for the front bumper cover, and the honeycomb looking thing that supports the bumper cover. Can't be going down the track at 115 mph and having my bumper flexing all over the place!

Also started work on replacing my motor mounts with some poly mounts from Energy Suspension. Talk about PITA. Of course I'm doing it the hard way, without dropping the A-arms. Already lost a nut in the middle of the K-member lol. One side done, too annoyed and irritated to bother with the other side tonight.

Working on swapping in my new gears in the 9" tomorrow, gotta run the pinion support out to the shop to break the pinion nut loose. My impact isn't big enough Looking to have the 9" installed by next weekend.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

My bumper support, It weighs 1lb instead of 36 that the factory one weighs

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

What is that made out of? That's along the lines of what I wanted to do originally, but I decided to keep the honeycomb looking piece, because the bumper cover flexed quite a bit with no support. How does yours do?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Ive seen a few cars use something like that above. Aluminum is always a good choice for a light weight material imo. But there are some good poly materials that work well to.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Finished up my motor mounts today, talk about PITA. If I ever do the motor mounts on a thirdgen again, the A-arms are coming off, nuff said. At least they look good...Also made more progress on my bumper support. It now has 44 2" holes in it lol. Maybe another hour or so worth of drilling, and it'll be done.

Going tomorrow to drop off the tranny, that should be back in about two weeks. I'm hoping the motor is finished up by then, that way I can put them both in, and then get this thing fired up. After that, it's just building SFCs, and let the racing season begin!

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

1" square aluminum tubing. Its fine up to 200mph sofar. You could build another support off of the upper bolt holes that goes out farther to help support the bumper a bit.
Also have plastic headlights to reduce weight.

project89

iTrader: (1)

do what i do when i have to replace the mounts , torch the bolts off and knock them out , then place the enw mounts and drop bolt son the top to locate them, after that i bust out the mig welder and put a short welds on each side.

i make the welds big enough that they wont break but small enough that if i ever have to rpelace them i can grind the weld off and remove th emount

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Im intrested to see how the tuning comes out..... still sticking with the MAF? Make sure you plan a good amount of time on tuning. Youll be surprised on how many chips your gonnne burn off. But I know you can get her done.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Next time I do motor mounts on a thirdgen, it'll be getting some tubular A-arms and K-member lol.

I'm going to test the waters with MAF. I'll be using the 1989 "magazine tune" ARAP bin. It was a tune for the 350 that was pretty much beefed up just to look good for magazine numbers. I've already made small changes to it.

No other progress on the car, I've spent the past few days working on a resume for a higher-up job opening, so fingers crossed on that!

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Good luck bud on the job!!!!

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

"Finished up" the front bumper support, not as well as I would've liked though. After breaking 3 drill bits in the space of 20 minutes, I decided enough is enough. Here's what it looks like, all it needs is a bit of paint over the bare metal. Next time I'm just doing something like TTOP350 did. Too much work for too little gain. I'll weigh all them stupid little circles tomorrow lol.



Also found an ad on Craigslist for some used Hooker 2210 Longtubes. That should make the passenger side subframe connecter MUCH easier to design and execute. I'm thinking about making an H-pipe setup that runs into 2 bullet mufflers, and then dumping before the rear axle. Not much a fan of over-the-axle setups. This setup should make it extremely easy to remove also. Dropping the rear end to remove the exhaust gets old in a heartbeat, had enough fun with that on my dad's Vega with OTA exhaust.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

How often do you plan on removing the exhaust?

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

If thats a formula front bumper I think they weigh about 36lbs stock..
Instead of cutting up my org bumpers I 1st bout some thinner steel jap replacement parts and then cut those up. (I still have cut up one it in attic) I'll try and get a pic later. It just didn't take off as much weight as I wanted sooo I went to the alumnium tubing

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Removing the exhaust? Eh you never know lol

You nailed it TTOP350, Formula bumper, 36lbs.

No work done tonight, went to work on the tranny though. Between 2 TH350s, I have a full set of good clutch packs! Ironic that it worked out that way, but I'll take it. Everything else looks good, won't be long before it's back together. Also, screwed up buying the bearings for the rear. According to the Moser tech guy, "We've never put a Daytona pinion bearing on a nodular iron pinion support." Aaaaaand, now I'm waiting on a Daytona pinion bearing from Summit before the rear goes in...

Calling on people with speedometer experience! Naturally, I'm planning on running the speedometer. I've already got the drive and driven gears figured out for a 3.70 geared 26 inch tire, 7 tooth drive, 20 tooth driven. BUT, what about swapping the 700R4 VSS to the TH350 in place of the mechanical? My first thought was to get the mechanical-to-electronic converter for ~$80, but now I'm seeing things about just swapping the whole VSS over. Is that possible?

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I was up in the attic today and dusted off the old crash bar. Its forsale if anyone wants it.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Mark and I completed a deal I found on Craigslist today. Now in my possession, a set of Hooker 2210 longtubes!



Rusty, but a bit of sandblasting will clean that up nicely. After that I'll hit them with a few coats of VHT header paint. Also incuded with them, some 3 inch intermediate pipes with Thrush mufflers. I'm going from 1 5/8" primaries and single 3" exhaust to 1 3/4" primaries and dual 3" exhaust. Also planning on making up an H-pipe for this setup. If the exhaust was ever a restriction, it isn't anymore!

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Cut off the worthless 3 bolt flange, weld in a 02 bung on both sides and send em off to jet hot, you'll be glad you did.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

I probably won't do much with them this year, solely because of the time restraint I have. They'll just get O2 bungs, and bead blasted at the shop, then a coat of header paint and call it done.

Started pulling the rear end apart last night. Hope to have it out tomorrow night. 9" is in the process of being set up, then that can go in, hopefully within the next week. More motor work tonight, they estimated 2 weeks for it to be done!

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Header paint burns off easy. Eastwood has some stuff that works a bit better. A friend put it on his headers and it did very well.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I've had good luck with POR-20 as well. Did not look the best, but it held up.

I am going to try Eastwoods highest grade next.


Thats a big kink in those pipes!

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Updates on the engine being machiened? You go it all back yet?

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Machine work is complete, started putting it together last night now that the paint is dry. Shouldn't be much longer now!

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Awsome. Thats good to hear. Less then 2 months and counting. about 40 days for me till milan opens.