TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
01-06-2015, 06:34 PM
#1
TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
http://socaltpi.org/forum/viewtopic....=83&p=699#p699
The above link lists all mods done to the car. Included is the a picture of one of my Dyno runs, the Injectors were static but the fuel curve was dead on and required very little tweaking. A/C, Power Steering & Smog have all been removed. Numbers are quite disappointing to say the least...
Not sure if the photograph reflects the first or second Dyno run, but due to the injectors being static there wasn't any room for tweaking. Not much difference between the first or second Dyno run.
Thanks
The above link lists all mods done to the car. Included is the a picture of one of my Dyno runs, the Injectors were static but the fuel curve was dead on and required very little tweaking. A/C, Power Steering & Smog have all been removed. Numbers are quite disappointing to say the least...
Not sure if the photograph reflects the first or second Dyno run, but due to the injectors being static there wasn't any room for tweaking. Not much difference between the first or second Dyno run.
Thanks
01-07-2015, 09:05 PM
#3
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Car: 91 RS VERT
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Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
262 337 - So approx 330 at the crank assuming this is a chassis dyno .....this is your stick below right ?
"ZZ409 Hyd. Roller Camshaft
This is our most popular cam for the SBC/LT engines. It is simply awesome! The .520" lift, 226 duration single pattern design is an excellent choice for a wide variety of small block and LT engine combos. A great choice with a MiniRam, or is a nice improvement for a TPI engine versus our ZZ9 cam. Expect 450hp on a 350 cid and 470hp on a 383 cid. It has a slightly choppy idle but with great vacuum and needs a 2000-2400 rpm stall converter for automatic cars. This is a billet cam with a step nose for retainer plate on the 87-94 SBC or LT1, has a cast iron distributor gear and is ground on a 112deg. lobe separation.'
FWIW Y manufacturer says 450 ...but in the "real" world -I would expect about 350-375 range for that cam with decent compression ....so by my w.a.g. I would say you are down 30-40 somewhere .
"ZZ409 Hyd. Roller Camshaft
This is our most popular cam for the SBC/LT engines. It is simply awesome! The .520" lift, 226 duration single pattern design is an excellent choice for a wide variety of small block and LT engine combos. A great choice with a MiniRam, or is a nice improvement for a TPI engine versus our ZZ9 cam. Expect 450hp on a 350 cid and 470hp on a 383 cid. It has a slightly choppy idle but with great vacuum and needs a 2000-2400 rpm stall converter for automatic cars. This is a billet cam with a step nose for retainer plate on the 87-94 SBC or LT1, has a cast iron distributor gear and is ground on a 112deg. lobe separation.'
FWIW Y manufacturer says 450 ...but in the "real" world -I would expect about 350-375 range for that cam with decent compression ....so by my w.a.g. I would say you are down 30-40 somewhere .
Last edited by sootie007; 01-07-2015 at 09:18 PM.
01-07-2015, 09:17 PM
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Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
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Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
Heads seem a bit small for my taste.
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01-08-2015, 08:49 PM
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Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
I would think you might look at the Fast EFI setup and bigger injectors.The Fast EFI is self learning and only costs $750.With the parts you have in your build you should be close to 450 horse power and 450 Torque.
01-10-2015, 02:16 AM
#10
Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
I'll see if I can grab that info from my tuner, you really think a 2400 Stall Torque Convertor is eating up some power?
01-11-2015, 08:44 AM
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Car: 87 Iroc
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Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
I got the numbers from various builds on this forum and reading different builds in Hot Rod mags.Those numbers would be at the flywheel.
01-11-2015, 11:27 AM
#15
Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
Cam should make better numbers thats for sure. Those are good heads.
If its unlocked converter on a mustang dyno, those are alittle better figures but real test is how does it run at the track. I have seen some lower dyno numbers outrun other higher dyno cars at the track.
01-12-2015, 12:02 PM
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Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
Have you tried to data log? At this point, it may be best to data log and see what the computer is telling the motor to do. If your running real lean, then maybe you need to get bigger injectors and another tune.
Last edited by Fred SS; 01-12-2015 at 12:07 PM. Reason: typo
01-13-2015, 04:26 PM
#19
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Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
Remember what I told you at the Dyno. With what you're trying to do, ditch the TPI and go with a HSR if you're not worrying about smog. Your cam will get you around 400whp if you go with ths HSR. It's a lot cheaper than my Miniram $650 with everything you need.
Get a better set of headers(1 3/4in LT's), 3in cat back Magnaflow, 30lbs injectors, adjustable FP regulator and a 58mm TB. Your gold will be met.
Oh by the way, TPIS advertise their cams HP at the crank with the Miniram. So they are right on Q!
01-14-2015, 10:16 PM
#20
Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
The Exhaust is as follows:
Hedman Long Tube Headers
Mufflex TPIY
Summit Racing 3" Exhaust System
You have to remember that we Dyno our cars on the same day on the same dyno. You had a lot of problem with your car before you got started. You have longtube headers hook up to stock exhaust pipes. You had blowed out headers gaskets on both sides of the engine. You don't have a ported base. Your are still using a stock 48mm tb.
Remember what I told you at the Dyno. With what you're trying to do, ditch the TPI and go with a HSR if you're not worrying about smog. Your cam will get you around 400whp if you go with ths HSR. It's a lot cheaper than my Miniram $650 with everything you need.
Get a better set of headers(1 3/4in LT's), 3in cat back Magnaflow, 30lbs injectors, adjustable FP regulator and a 58mm TB. Your gold will be met.
Oh by the way, TPIS advertise their cams HP at the crank with the Miniram. So they are right on Q!
Remember what I told you at the Dyno. With what you're trying to do, ditch the TPI and go with a HSR if you're not worrying about smog. Your cam will get you around 400whp if you go with ths HSR. It's a lot cheaper than my Miniram $650 with everything you need.
Get a better set of headers(1 3/4in LT's), 3in cat back Magnaflow, 30lbs injectors, adjustable FP regulator and a 58mm TB. Your gold will be met.
Oh by the way, TPIS advertise their cams HP at the crank with the Miniram. So they are right on Q!
I'm running an ASM 52mm Throttle Body, not Stock. The base may not be ported but should produce better numbers nonetheless. I have an AFPR. I would like 1 3/4in Long Tube Headers and a different muffler but it's not in the budget at the moment. I remember our conversation, it's just that I wanted to keep the TPI setup. The plan is to build a forged motor that can handle N2O, but I need to work out all the kinks on this setup first. My numbers compared to what TPIS advertises are drastically lower.
ZZ409 Hyd. Roller Camshaft - Expect 450hp on a 350 cid engine.
Everyone for your Input!
01-14-2015, 10:49 PM
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Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
Not running lean, fuel was dead on.
Totally agree on larger injectors, they need to be replaced due to them being static and unable to support any additional airflow. Now my logic may be flawed but if my air/fuel is currently stoich, adding more fuel to the current equation isn't going to make me any more power, am I correct?
The Exhaust is as follows:
Hedman Long Tube Headers
Mufflex TPIY
Summit Racing 3" Exhaust System
Yeah I did, I attribute that the CHEAPO AutoZone Mass Air Flow Sensor, they actually told me the MAF Sensor I bought was an upgraded design.
I'm running an ASM 52mm Throttle Body, not Stock. The base may not be ported but should produce better numbers nonetheless. I have an AFPR. I would like 1 3/4in Long Tube Headers and a different muffler but it's not in the budget at the moment. I remember our conversation, it's just that I wanted to keep the TPI setup. The plan is to build a forged motor that can handle N2O, but I need to work out all the kinks on this setup first. My numbers compared to what TPIS advertises are drastically lower.
ZZ409 Hyd. Roller Camshaft - Expect 450hp on a 350 cid engine.
Totally agree on larger injectors, they need to be replaced due to them being static and unable to support any additional airflow. Now my logic may be flawed but if my air/fuel is currently stoich, adding more fuel to the current equation isn't going to make me any more power, am I correct?
The Exhaust is as follows:
Hedman Long Tube Headers
Mufflex TPIY
Summit Racing 3" Exhaust System
Yeah I did, I attribute that the CHEAPO AutoZone Mass Air Flow Sensor, they actually told me the MAF Sensor I bought was an upgraded design.
I'm running an ASM 52mm Throttle Body, not Stock. The base may not be ported but should produce better numbers nonetheless. I have an AFPR. I would like 1 3/4in Long Tube Headers and a different muffler but it's not in the budget at the moment. I remember our conversation, it's just that I wanted to keep the TPI setup. The plan is to build a forged motor that can handle N2O, but I need to work out all the kinks on this setup first. My numbers compared to what TPIS advertises are drastically lower.
ZZ409 Hyd. Roller Camshaft - Expect 450hp on a 350 cid engine.
The cross section at the head is not as large as the AS&M runners.
The drag on the air flow through that base could be killing you.
Edelbrock calls it "High Flow" but is is far from that.
Sorry to bust your bubble but just throwing parts together from the box just doesn't get it done.
HTH
01-15-2015, 05:35 PM
#24
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Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
You stripped all the smog stuff out so why stay TPI? HSR will get you very close to 450hp or better yet 400whp.
Last edited by VincentZ28; 01-15-2015 at 11:18 PM.
01-15-2015, 08:38 PM
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Car: 1989 G92 IROC-Z
Engine: 5 Liter 305
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Actually, that base (and I have flowed a few of them) does not flow much more that a stock one. Without any porting or smoothing, it really sucks. The cross section at the head is not as large as the AS&M runners. The drag on the air flow through that base could be killing you. Edelbrock calls it "High Flow" but is is far from that. Sorry to bust your bubble but just throwing parts together from the box just doesn't get it done. HTH
01-16-2015, 05:51 AM
#26
Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
Actually, that base (and I have flowed a few of them) does not flow much more that a stock one. Without any porting or smoothing, it really sucks.
The cross section at the head is not as large as the AS&M runners.
The drag on the air flow through that base could be killing you.
Edelbrock calls it "High Flow" but is is far from that.
Sorry to bust your bubble but just throwing parts together from the box just doesn't get it done.
HTH
The cross section at the head is not as large as the AS&M runners.
The drag on the air flow through that base could be killing you.
Edelbrock calls it "High Flow" but is is far from that.
Sorry to bust your bubble but just throwing parts together from the box just doesn't get it done.
HTH
One would think ordering the "CORRECT" parts would produce the advertised result. 
I have over $1,500 in the intake components alone. I spoke with Clay the Engine Shop Manager at TPIS and this was his input,
" It has been a long time since I have dynoed a tuned port engine so I had to do some homework... I would estimate flywheel HP @ 360 and LB-FT @ 425. Should spin the tires!!"
01-16-2015, 09:33 AM
#28
Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
What kind of timing do you have in it?
I do agree, IF it was 14.7/1, you are leaving power on the table as well.
Probably a few small things that once they come together, you can hit your 300 rwhp.
While 180 heads are small, they are more than sufficient for your combo.
I do agree, IF it was 14.7/1, you are leaving power on the table as well.
Probably a few small things that once they come together, you can hit your 300 rwhp.
While 180 heads are small, they are more than sufficient for your combo.
01-16-2015, 12:35 PM
#29
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Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
Keep your eyes open for HSR in the classified section in all the web sites including corvette forum and maybe LS1tech or maybe a Super Ram.
01-16-2015, 01:09 PM
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Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
Can you lock that converter for the pull?
Also, dynos can be "corrected" to just about anything. Standard HP, SAE HP, temp and baro conditions etc. And different types of dynos yield different numbers. Not saying they did anything intentional but mistakes do happen. Make sure you're comparing apples to apples.
02-20-2015, 03:51 PM
#32
Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
02-22-2015, 07:41 PM
#36
Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
Kevin, the tts log looks great. I'm not a huge fan of tts more information can be extracted from tuner pro rt. I believe this tune may of been based off Apyu sorry I didn't catch wich year this is in. I do have a tune for the same build 24#hr injectors (constant left to 22) maf tables adjusted. I'm waiting on more datalog a from the tgo member but using arap timing tables main and lv8 vs sa and the re adjust for fueling may help but I'm not sure if there is huge improvement left 15-30hp maybe..
08-28-2015, 12:59 AM
#38
Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
The word around the World Wide Web is that SoCalTPI is gearing up for Dyno Day 2015 sometime in October.
Hopefully this year brings better numbers and I can change the title of this thread to TPI Combo - Great Dyno Results.
Hopefully this year brings better numbers and I can change the title of this thread to TPI Combo - Great Dyno Results.
08-28-2015, 04:35 AM
#39
Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
Here's a quick update;
I changed the AS&M 52MM Throttle Body for a TPIS 58MM Throttle Body.
The 21LBS Injectors have been swapped out for 30Lbs Injectors.
New Idle Air Control Valve
Switched to a PMGR Starter
I've also sent a couple of parts out for polishing; gotta be sure she shines on the Dyno!
I changed the AS&M 52MM Throttle Body for a TPIS 58MM Throttle Body.
The 21LBS Injectors have been swapped out for 30Lbs Injectors.
New Idle Air Control Valve
Switched to a PMGR Starter
I've also sent a couple of parts out for polishing; gotta be sure she shines on the Dyno!
08-28-2015, 03:37 PM
#40
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08-28-2015, 04:20 PM
#42
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Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
Many moons ago I had my 1988 Formula 350- comp cams 220/230 cam, vortec heads, Scoggins TPI base SLP runners, SLP headers and exhaust, pulleys, not much else produced 275 HP at Second Street Speed in Perkasie, PA
09-17-2015, 06:44 PM
#44
Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
Progress Update: TPIS Big Mouth Manifold was sent out for porting, I might have it flowed afterwards, depends on the final porting cost. Heads only flow 260cfm, should't be too hard to achieve, I would think. Flow numbers for the TPIS Big Mouth, anyone?
I'm still saving to upgrade the exhaust...
I'm still saving to upgrade the exhaust...
09-18-2015, 11:09 AM
#45
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Car: 1988 IROC-Z
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Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
Hopefully I be seeing a dyno soon,pretty much the same setup kinda.
357 tpi
Foreign pistons
Dart 200cc aluminium heads
Comp 2032 cam
1.52 roller tip rockers
1 7/8 headers
single 3 inch exhaust
24lb injectors
Afpr
The stock tpi been ported but looking into something different.I'm kinda scared to see what it makes lol
357 tpi
Foreign pistons
Dart 200cc aluminium heads
Comp 2032 cam
1.52 roller tip rockers
1 7/8 headers
single 3 inch exhaust
24lb injectors
Afpr
The stock tpi been ported but looking into something different.I'm kinda scared to see what it makes lol
09-27-2015, 12:04 PM
#46
Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
I'm late to the party here but I'll toss in a couple data points
I have Profiler 185s mildly ported on a 10.5:1 383. XFI268 cam, super ram intake and ported edelbrock base. (base was ported and slightly outflows an accel base). Dyno Don 1.75" headers into a single 3.5" cat back.
In terrible hot and humid weather(after a rainstorm) on street tires the car traps 108mph through the stock 89 GTA intake ducting and a de-screened MAF. For the tuners, my timing at WOT is 32* and WOT AFR was 11.8 (too rich I know). It weighs about 3800lbs with me in it. That calculates out to roughly 370 rwhp.
The point here is that 180cc heads will be plenty for what you are doing, your cam will be fine too. You MUST port the intake base. It sounds like you're doing that, and I feel that will be a big portion of the cork in your system as Don has already mentioned.
I have Profiler 185s mildly ported on a 10.5:1 383. XFI268 cam, super ram intake and ported edelbrock base. (base was ported and slightly outflows an accel base). Dyno Don 1.75" headers into a single 3.5" cat back.
In terrible hot and humid weather(after a rainstorm) on street tires the car traps 108mph through the stock 89 GTA intake ducting and a de-screened MAF. For the tuners, my timing at WOT is 32* and WOT AFR was 11.8 (too rich I know). It weighs about 3800lbs with me in it. That calculates out to roughly 370 rwhp.
The point here is that 180cc heads will be plenty for what you are doing, your cam will be fine too. You MUST port the intake base. It sounds like you're doing that, and I feel that will be a big portion of the cork in your system as Don has already mentioned.
09-29-2015, 06:25 AM
#48
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Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
260 is acheivable but will take a LOT of work even moreso getting the runners within a small percentage of each other..problem is when you bolt a long tube runner on it drops...Just do the best you can for the $ and call it good or move up to a shorter runner intake
10-07-2015, 11:40 PM
#49
Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
The company that is doing the porting on my Big Mouth Manifold says they only flowed two ports prior to porting; one left and one right port. They didn't give me the specifics as to which of the left/right ports in particular were flowed. Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember reading that not all the ports flow the same? I get the feeling that they're not going to flow all the ports once the porting is complete, should I insist they flow all eight ports?
10-08-2015, 06:51 AM
#50
Re: TPI Combo - Low Dyno Results
depends on how they are porting the intake. I flowed mine before and after but I didn't do every single port. I did however use bore gages so I know the diameters and cross sections were very close across all 8 ports.