Hawkeye1980

iTrader: (3)

Folks, let me just say I HATE torx bolts, always have. They strip so damn easy it is beyond frustrating!!

Thank you... With that being said where can I find a set of replacement bolts for the TPI runners to the manifold and the plenum please? I only stripped one but its the old domino affect. I cant get at other areas to replace my fuel injectors. ARRRGG!!!

NowhereFast

They only strip if you use the wrong size bit. You could probably find an original set on ebay or from on of the dudes on here.

Hawkeye1980

iTrader: (3)

Right size bit used stiill stripped the POS. now it's holding up my entire project.

Hawkeye1980

iTrader: (3)

Ok, if anyone has a set of torx blolts from OEM runners, I am interested please! Now I have to figure out how to get this one out.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...tance-tpi.html
If they're discontinued, at least you have sizes.

MeenZ28

The bolt size is M8-1.25 but there's 3 different lengths from what I remember. The upper runner bolts are all the same length 30mm. I replaced all with a hex flange bolts because I too hate torx bolts.

TylerSteez

iTrader: (3)

I literally went through 5 torx heads when taking my plenum off, I bought out every parts store in my city. And I was using the right sized torx.. The problem was that the metal that the torx heads were made of were weaker than the bolts in the plenum so the grooves on the torx heads would just twist like a noodle. A lot of pb blaster and some love taps with a hammer and punch made it easier.

I put in bolts I got from autozone and have never looked back

Hawkeye1980

iTrader: (3)

Well I may just cut the head off and pull the runner the just remove the stud at this point thanks

Hawkeye1980

iTrader: (3)

I want to know WHY a torx can so easily strip on the inside but CANT be cut with a sawzaw blade?? What idiot design these damn things! Tried cutting and using vise grips and a hammer screw driver...NOTHING works...beyond amazing....

TylerSteez

iTrader: (3)

Have you tried drilling out the bolt and re tapping the hole? I'd get a set of left handed drill bits and start drilling straight down the center of the hole with one a little thinner than the bolts threads and then run a tap through the threads once it's out

Vader

Actually, I KNOW the "idiots" who designed those things. One was Joe Stalter (RIP), one was Mark Pesavento, and another was Berni Reiland (RIP). I used to work with them. The Torx (R) drive system has been around probably longer than many of us here (since 1967). It was designed specifically to prevent camout, and does that quite well IF the correct driver is used and IF that driver is held within the proper angular limits.

They were designed at the bequest of the automotive industry to provide a method to improve automated assembly with 100% reliability. The fact that they do that so well is why you can now find Torx(R) in everything from automotive to appliance, aircraft, computer hardware, electronics, furniture, hydraulics, and just about every other industry fastening application. If they are as "bad" as some people might profess, they probably wouldn't be so popular for almost 50 years.

One thing that Camcar could not prevent is the proliferation of low-grade, poorly manufactured, third-world copycat drivers and bits which seem to have flooded the market. Some of them ALMOST fit properly and might even work. Use a genuine APEX bit and hold it at the proper angle and it will not fail. APEX was the original licensee for header punch inserts and the driver tools for Torx(R) and Torx Plus(R) systems. Anything else is a risk. There are some very good copies available, such as Wiha. If your driver tools are described as "star" or six-lobe" and do not carry the Torx(R) trademark, they are different (to avoid patent/trademark infringement, and in your case, "different" is not a good thing. If you buy your tools at Home Depot and Harbor Freight, you get exactly what you paid for.

Regarding the second question, the head is not easy to cut since it is typically hardened to 56-60 Rc. It is also unlikely that the original Petersen Vise-Grip pliers (or their Cooper Tools spin-offs) will grip one effectively since the jaws of a Vise-Grip plier are much softer than 56 Rc. Again, the low-grade, poorly manufactured, third-world copycat locking pliers are probably an even worse choice. Generally, Vise-Grips are NOT to be used on hardened surfaces. They are acceptable on pipe or other soft materials, and are actually best suited as welding clamps, not pliers. As a comparison, Crescent pliers are commonly hardened to higher levels, and some of them (like 410Gs) can grip and turn a hardened surface. Just like the bit selection, part of a qualified mechanic's responsibility is not only knowing how assemblies are removed, installed, and repaired, but the appropriate tools and supplies which facilitate those actions.

As for the problem at hand, it is critical to understand that the original assembly included an application of thread locking compound on these bolts, and as such, some moderate level of heat helps to soften this bond. If the head recess is destroyed, a sharp, HARDENED chisel on the perimeter of the head can walk the head around, loosening it enough to enable removal. Once these bolts are removed, they are scrap - Do not even think of using them again. Since the torque specification for the plenum bolts is 18 ft/lb almost any fastener that is the correct thread and length should be sufficient. If you want to use something other than the original Torx(R) cap screws, external Torx(R), hex shouldered cap screws (like header bolts), hex recess (Allen) cap screws, spline drives, or just about anything else should work.

If you want to use the original style pan head Torx(R) cap screws, there are places where they can be found. You will need M8-1.25 x 30mm, 35mm, 40mm, and possibly 55mm lengths. For the lower intake you will need 3/8-16 x 1" in most locations and possibly a hex collar stud in up to two locations.

Hawkeye1980

iTrader: (3)

Vader... Cool handle!

I know they have been around for many years. Worked in electronic mfg before IT in the 80s and 90s. Just frustrated and needed to vent about it.

I eneded up cutting the head off today. Picked up what I could in stainless steel Allan head screws and washers. As well as some anti seize.

Thanks for all the info and sizes very helpful. And again, no offense to those who invented the torx. Maybe should be directed at GM for they way it was used....

By the way I only used crafsman tools. Love them!

Hawkeye1980

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for everyone's help on this.

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

i have like a 1000 of them torx bolts if u need some lol

jmd

iTrader: (4)

I'll second Apex bits as outstanding tools.

Vader

Hawk - Good call on the anti-seize. You'll thank yourself later for being so thoughtful today.