may i vent?
04-18-2016, 07:52 PM
#1
may i vent?
sorry guys if this isnt cool....im pretty terribly angry at my car right now. finally got it running where i wanted it. I have had a rough winter with replacing fuel pumps. first in november the pulsator went so i replaced the pulsator, pump, sender, ect. then the pulsator blew out so i replaced with a pulsator delete and a racetronix pump just incase. I got the fuel pressure under control yesterday and today i took the car to work. Car ran GREAT. I got it to work and no problems. on my way home i had to stop to get gas cuz it was on E. pulled into the gas station and the car died in the parking lot. put gas in it tried starting it and got nowhere. had my wife come with my truck and i jumped it (after i tried starting it for so long the battery died) and i got it to barely chug on ether. i had her turn the key to prime the pump while i held the pressure gauge hookup on the fuel rail open to drain any air or what not and didnt get anything out of it. no air, no fuel. had the car towed home and now i'm not even wanting to get into it. last time i had a gauge on it, it wouldnt hold pressure and if its the fuel pump im gonna throw a major fit. I'm so over these problems, i built the motor 2 years ago and have had nothing but fuel problems. sorry for the rant guys....its over now.
04-19-2016, 08:15 AM
#3
Supreme Member
Re: may i vent?
There i times i get ticked off and must just walk away for a time. i even put my car up for sale last year, but couldnt bring myself to part with it, lol.
They say persistance is the key to success! i hope you get it figured out.
They say persistance is the key to success! i hope you get it figured out.
04-19-2016, 08:37 AM
#4
Do you think I killed the pump? I'm getting nothing from the Schrader valve at the fuel rail. It's a racetronix it wasn't empty for long but I suppose it could be dead. It would be such a waste of $150 since I got 2 driving days out of it. Was thinking these were bullet proof
04-19-2016, 05:49 PM
#9
Supreme Member
Re: may i vent?
have you tried starting it today? maybe it got hot from being run dry? now that it cooled, it might work again? could get lucky?
04-19-2016, 08:17 PM
#11
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Car: 1988 GTA
Engine: LB9
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.45
Re: may i vent?
Modern cars have a "bucket" surrounding the pump that limits the amount of time a driver can force the pump to overheat by continuing to run it on empty. 3rd gens did not yet have this feature.
04-20-2016, 05:12 AM
#12
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Join Date: Jun 2013
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Engine: TPI 327 SBC Turbo MS2
Transmission: 200-4R CKP Stage 2
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: may i vent?
I have to admit that I can get on a rant (ask my wife - lol), but usually going to the garage to work on something is how I calm down keeping in mind that the beer fridge is in close proximity to the garage.
Regarding your pump, if it's bad then I'd warranty it from wherever I bought it. But from the sounds of your issue, the pump is the symptom and not the cause due to related repeat failures. There are some basic checks that need to be done to determine why the pump isn't running. First, the fuel pump relay should be checked for proper power and ground. See if you can jump the two large pins in the relay pug, with the relay removed, to get the fuel pump to operate. If it operates, then start the car and check for power from the signal wire when the car is running (with the other pins jumped to get the car running) and check for ground from the ground pin. The ground pin could be load tested with a head light bulb to verify correct ground. If all is good at the relay plug and the car is running with the big pins jumped, then the relay is a turd and needs replacement. If the signal from the ECM is not functioning, then you need to resolve that as well, but that is a more complicated diag.
If relay and wiring is good at the relay, then you need to check for proper power and ground at the pump connector via load testing both wires. Low voltage due to poor wiring will burn up the pump in a hurry.
As far as I'm concerned, for a stockish setup the stock pump is more than adequate.
Best of luck - Jim
Regarding your pump, if it's bad then I'd warranty it from wherever I bought it. But from the sounds of your issue, the pump is the symptom and not the cause due to related repeat failures. There are some basic checks that need to be done to determine why the pump isn't running. First, the fuel pump relay should be checked for proper power and ground. See if you can jump the two large pins in the relay pug, with the relay removed, to get the fuel pump to operate. If it operates, then start the car and check for power from the signal wire when the car is running (with the other pins jumped to get the car running) and check for ground from the ground pin. The ground pin could be load tested with a head light bulb to verify correct ground. If all is good at the relay plug and the car is running with the big pins jumped, then the relay is a turd and needs replacement. If the signal from the ECM is not functioning, then you need to resolve that as well, but that is a more complicated diag.
If relay and wiring is good at the relay, then you need to check for proper power and ground at the pump connector via load testing both wires. Low voltage due to poor wiring will burn up the pump in a hurry.
As far as I'm concerned, for a stockish setup the stock pump is more than adequate.
Best of luck - Jim
Last edited by jimw67; 04-20-2016 at 05:18 AM.
04-20-2016, 07:13 AM
#13
Re: may i vent?
Well this morning I got out to the car before I had to jump in the shower for work. I turned the key and the pump is turning on. However it was turning on at the gas station too. I couldn't turn the engine over cuz the battery is still dead from cranking it at the station. I'll charge it after work and give it a shot. Gonna see if my parents want to come over tomorrow and hang out with the baby while I tinker with it.
04-20-2016, 09:22 AM
#14
Supreme Member
Re: may i vent?
Seems you're aware of this already, but the fuel system is a complete system. I assume that you made sure there was no possibility of leaks between the pump and the fuel pipe at the sender. Then there are the rubber lines. They rarely fail but they can fail internally acting like a check valve and stopping fuel flow. I also assume the in line filter is new. The pump has to have 12 volts to operate properly. It runs on about 11.5 volts during the prime and as low as 9 volts while cranking the engine, but it needs to have atleast 12 volts once the engine's running.
Along with the power circuit through the relay and oil pressure switch, there's also the ground side. With the pump running, measure voltage between the Tan and the larger Black wire at the 4 pin connector right above and in front of the tank. Test the regulator and pump pressure by momentarily pinching the return hose under the hood. The pressure on a healthy pump should jump to 90 psi.
I know the tank is a pita to drop on these cars. That's part of why I run an external pump. I'm redoing my entire fuel system this spring, again since I built it 12 years ago. It will have a sumped tank and Aeromotive pump right at the sump. No need to drop the tank for pump service. Of course, the easier it is to drop the rear section of the exhaust, the quicker the tank drops out.
I'm not familiar with Racetronix equipment, but generally in my experience, the word RACE in any part's name means great performance, short life span.
Along with the power circuit through the relay and oil pressure switch, there's also the ground side. With the pump running, measure voltage between the Tan and the larger Black wire at the 4 pin connector right above and in front of the tank. Test the regulator and pump pressure by momentarily pinching the return hose under the hood. The pressure on a healthy pump should jump to 90 psi.
I know the tank is a pita to drop on these cars. That's part of why I run an external pump. I'm redoing my entire fuel system this spring, again since I built it 12 years ago. It will have a sumped tank and Aeromotive pump right at the sump. No need to drop the tank for pump service. Of course, the easier it is to drop the rear section of the exhaust, the quicker the tank drops out.
I'm not familiar with Racetronix equipment, but generally in my experience, the word RACE in any part's name means great performance, short life span.
04-20-2016, 02:16 PM
#15
Re: may i vent?
Seems you're aware of this already, but the fuel system is a complete system. I assume that you made sure there was no possibility of leaks between the pump and the fuel pipe at the sender. Then there are the rubber lines. They rarely fail but they can fail internally acting like a check valve and stopping fuel flow. I also assume the in line filter is new. The pump has to have 12 volts to operate properly. It runs on about 11.5 volts during the prime and as low as 9 volts while cranking the engine, but it needs to have atleast 12 volts once the engine's running.
Along with the power circuit through the relay and oil pressure switch, there's also the ground side. With the pump running, measure voltage between the Tan and the larger Black wire at the 4 pin connector right above and in front of the tank. Test the regulator and pump pressure by momentarily pinching the return hose under the hood. The pressure on a healthy pump should jump to 90 psi.
I know the tank is a pita to drop on these cars. That's part of why I run an external pump. I'm redoing my entire fuel system this spring, again since I built it 12 years ago. It will have a sumped tank and Aeromotive pump right at the sump. No need to drop the tank for pump service. Of course, the easier it is to drop the rear section of the exhaust, the quicker the tank drops out.
I'm not familiar with Racetronix equipment, but generally in my experience, the word RACE in any part's name means great performance, short life span.
Along with the power circuit through the relay and oil pressure switch, there's also the ground side. With the pump running, measure voltage between the Tan and the larger Black wire at the 4 pin connector right above and in front of the tank. Test the regulator and pump pressure by momentarily pinching the return hose under the hood. The pressure on a healthy pump should jump to 90 psi.
I know the tank is a pita to drop on these cars. That's part of why I run an external pump. I'm redoing my entire fuel system this spring, again since I built it 12 years ago. It will have a sumped tank and Aeromotive pump right at the sump. No need to drop the tank for pump service. Of course, the easier it is to drop the rear section of the exhaust, the quicker the tank drops out.
I'm not familiar with Racetronix equipment, but generally in my experience, the word RACE in any part's name means great performance, short life span.
I have read a ton of reviews saying that racetronix was an excellent company. one tiny problem i had since i installed the pump was it didnt seem to hold pressure when the motor was turned off. It was a gradual decline to 0 PSI but i dont see how that might be affecting me now. the pump turns on right now, i can hear it. I'm going to throw a charger on it tonight and hopefully tomorrow it'll be all nice and charged up and i'll tinker with it.
on a side note, i really appreciate you guys all offering advice to help out !!!
04-20-2016, 07:08 PM
#16
Re: may i vent?
i have news to report:
today i got an opportunity to go outside and look at the car for a hot minute. i had put a charger on the dead battery earlier in the day, so i put a gauge on the fuel rail and hit the key. it jumped up to 45 psi and i figured......what the heck (i was planning on pulling the spark plugs first to inspect). sure enough it started up without a problem. so either the pump overheated and shut down temporarily or the motor got flooded and took a day to dry up. either way i wont argue with a no-work-fix lol. thanks guys for all your support and interest. guess i get to keep my racetronix pump, keep the tank in the same spot and importantly keep my sanity lol
today i got an opportunity to go outside and look at the car for a hot minute. i had put a charger on the dead battery earlier in the day, so i put a gauge on the fuel rail and hit the key. it jumped up to 45 psi and i figured......what the heck (i was planning on pulling the spark plugs first to inspect). sure enough it started up without a problem. so either the pump overheated and shut down temporarily or the motor got flooded and took a day to dry up. either way i wont argue with a no-work-fix lol. thanks guys for all your support and interest. guess i get to keep my racetronix pump, keep the tank in the same spot and importantly keep my sanity lol
04-20-2016, 09:59 PM
#17
Supreme Member
Re: may i vent?
glad to hear its working again. try to keep at least a 1/4 tank of gas to keep the pump lubricated. might be worth changing the filter too? see if it sucked up any gunk?
04-21-2016, 09:51 AM
#19
Supreme Member
Re: may i vent?
Cool that it fixed itself. This always makes me a little nervous. Two suggestions from my own play book: AAA roadside assistance. The Gold plan includes three free tows up to 100 miles each and it's like $100 per year. Definitely check out the power supply and ground circuits to the pump. Verify the 12 volt minimum with the engine running. Low voltage will cause the pump to heat up and fail before its time. Might want to replace the relay too just for drill.
04-22-2016, 01:36 PM
#20
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Eastern PA
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Car: 1988 GTA
Engine: VIN F 305 TPI
Transmission: AUto
Re: may i vent?
Most high pressure, in tank fuel pumps, are piston pumps that need to be immersed in gas to a) keep them cool, b) keep them lubricated and c) to keep them surrounded with liquid gas which will not explode in case there is a spark. That you could hear it means the plunger was going up and down but, not necessarily that it was pumping. The valves, especially inlet ball valves need to be kept cool or they will expand and hang up. This just sucks in gas and blows it right out the bottom. After cooling, the valves may start to operate again as a little jiggling from the piston going up and down will usually free them. Probably what happen to you.
With in the tank pumps, even the ones with a can around them, you should never let them run out of gas or you will probably be in for a tank drop to replace it.
Glad yours corrected itself.
With in the tank pumps, even the ones with a can around them, you should never let them run out of gas or you will probably be in for a tank drop to replace it.
Glad yours corrected itself.
04-23-2016, 07:43 AM
#21
Re: may i vent?
Cool that it fixed itself. This always makes me a little nervous. Two suggestions from my own play book: AAA roadside assistance. The Gold plan includes three free tows up to 100 miles each and it's like $100 per year. Definitely check out the power supply and ground circuits to the pump. Verify the 12 volt minimum with the engine running. Low voltage will cause the pump to heat up and fail before its time. Might want to replace the relay too just for drill.
Most high pressure, in tank fuel pumps, are piston pumps that need to be immersed in gas to a) keep them cool, b) keep them lubricated and c) to keep them surrounded with liquid gas which will not explode in case there is a spark. That you could hear it means the plunger was going up and down but, not necessarily that it was pumping. The valves, especially inlet ball valves need to be kept cool or they will expand and hang up. This just sucks in gas and blows it right out the bottom. After cooling, the valves may start to operate again as a little jiggling from the piston going up and down will usually free them. Probably what happen to you.
With in the tank pumps, even the ones with a can around them, you should never let them run out of gas or you will probably be in for a tank drop to replace it.
Glad yours corrected itself.
With in the tank pumps, even the ones with a can around them, you should never let them run out of gas or you will probably be in for a tank drop to replace it.
Glad yours corrected itself.
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