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Old 07-16-2007, 10:14 PM   #1
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700R4 front pump problem

I've got a question. What is the difference between these...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/700R4...spagenameZWD1V

and

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/REBUI...spagenameZWDVW

and

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1982-...spagenameZWD1V




I one is a rebuild kit and the other two are complete pumps, at least I think they are. The question I have is am I just as good doing the rebuild myself with the kit or should I just get a new complete pump and install that?

I guess I should tell you my symptoms. I just installed the trans out of another car which I have no history on so I don't know the condition of the trans itself. The problem is I have a metal on metal squeaking sound coming from the bell housing area in all gears. It gets louder when in drive and eventually quiets down but never goes away. Also, when put into reverse the car barley moves. I've read somewhere on this board that these are the first symptoms of the pump going. I figure it's cheaper to replace or rebuild the pump rather than take it to a shop and have them tell me it's not the pump.
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:46 PM   #2
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

probably broken pump ring(s). the only way to be sure is to remove the pump and take a look.
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Old 07-17-2007, 10:26 AM   #3
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

That's the plan but I'm not sure what I should replace while I'm there. That's why I would like to know the differences between the items I've listed. If a rebuild with the kit is sufficient I won't waste the money on a whole new pump.
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Old 07-17-2007, 07:40 PM   #4
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

you can't know if the rebuild kit is sufficient till you take the pump apart. even if it is broken rings, it is a bandaid since you don't know the history of the transmission. part of that broken pump ring could be in your torque converter.
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Old 07-17-2007, 09:31 PM   #5
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

but the converter is brand new and the car hasn't gone anywhere so I doubt that. I do however agree completely with the fact that I must remove the pump to inspect it before I purchase anything. I guess the next question is how do I remove the pump? I spent some time after work tonight and removed the trans and got it on the bench and removed the pump bolts but stopped there. I don't want to exacerbate the problem by damaging something else trying to get the pump off if I am missing something simple. Please provide some instruction.
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Old 07-17-2007, 09:32 PM   #6
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

You need to remove the pump , then if you will take some snap shots and send them to me or post I will help you determine what you need.
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Old 07-17-2007, 09:53 PM   #7
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

You need to take the pan off and then remove the TCC solenoid from the front. It goes into the pump from the bottom.

I sheared one off the first time because nobody told me...

Then you will see two threaded holes in the front pump. You need two slidehammers (or long pieces of all thread or bolts and use flat washers and deep sockets to home make a slide hammer) to evenly pull the front pump out.

It's really not that bad.

It also wouldn't hurt to go down to advance auto and buy a transmission repair manual. They're cheap.
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Old 07-18-2007, 08:40 AM   #8
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

Ah yes..the TCC solenoid. Good bit of info. I will purchase the manual today before I get into the project. As far as the pump though, are there issues I could miss during the rebuild process using the kit I posted above that would be addressed if I just purchased a whole new pump? That was the original question...I guess.
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:15 PM   #9
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

I don't like the kits, for what it's worth. Only the pressure relief valve and spring are worth replacing to me separately. If the pump is wrecked then I would get a used one...
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Old 07-18-2007, 06:43 PM   #10
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

Well..What do you guys think? From the looks of it the pump is fine unless there's something I'm missing. Everything was very clean, no scaring, metal, dirt, or anything that looks broken or unevenly worn. I need expert opinions before I go blaming the torque converter.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pump1.jpg (64.8 KB, 65 views)
File Type: jpg pump2.jpg (72.4 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg pump3.jpg (72.5 KB, 51 views)
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Old 07-19-2007, 08:31 PM   #11
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

Any ideas? I'm about to start spending money so I'd like to know where to spend it.
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Old 07-20-2007, 11:12 AM   #12
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

bump..Still need advice...please
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Old 07-20-2007, 11:25 AM   #13
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

take picture of the pump body without the rotor on it. we need to see where the rotor rides. gotta check it for scoring or gouging. the pump cover looks good. there is quite a bit of clutch material present though(black/grey sludge). how did the pan & magnet look?
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Old 07-21-2007, 10:38 AM   #14
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

Here are the close up pics of the pump surface. I wiped the trans fluid off so we can better see the metal wear pattern. In my opinion it looks like very even, typical ware for say about 100,000 miles? The only point of interest is in the second picture. It is a very small nick on the surface. I'm not a transmission expert but I don't believe that would be causing and problems, but I could be wrong. The pan looked alright; no sludge or anything that drastic just about the same as any other 100,000 mile 700 I've changed the filter on. The plug was doing it's job and was covered with clutch material but that's to be expected. It looked like the filter had been changed at some pint so that's a good thing. Let me know what you think.
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File Type: jpg pump4.jpg (74.4 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg pump5.jpg (62.0 KB, 37 views)
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Old 07-23-2007, 08:14 AM   #15
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

New pics posted for those of you helping me out with this problem. Thanks.
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:36 PM   #16
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

I'm about to start this rebuild. Somebody better stop me before I screw something up.
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Old 07-24-2007, 03:58 PM   #17
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

bump
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Old 07-25-2007, 08:23 AM   #18
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

I guess I'm going it alone. I'll keep myself posted...
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Old 07-25-2007, 09:39 AM   #19
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

the pump body looks good as well. while your at it get the hi-rev, no yo yo pump rings + priming spring. also install a .500 main boost valve. the pump doesn't seems to the source of the problems.

check the pump bushing. if anything replace the bushing while you rebuild the pump.
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Old 07-25-2007, 09:59 AM   #20
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

Well it's good to hear the pump body looks good but not good to hear. Know what I mean? Anyway, I installed a .500 boost valve when I did the TransGo kit so I'm good there. I got a pump rebuild kit and it has the no yo-yo hardend rings and I believe a new spring. It also has a new teflon bushing so I think I'm good on the parts. I read that I should be looking for about a .001 to .0015 clearance on the pump. Where should that be measured?
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:16 AM   #21
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

The pump is rebuilt and reinstalled. Nothing I took out looked bad but who knows. I'm waiting to get the converer back and make sure that wasn't he problem. Once it's here I throw it back together and see what happens. I fear a rebuild is in my future but not this season....
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Old 07-28-2007, 11:09 AM   #22
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

Still waiting on the converter. Hopefully next week. I do have a confession to make though. I said everything that I took out looked good but that's not true..When I had the pump out I looked down the case and saw a piece of metal. There weren't shavings just a single chunk of what look to be the same material as the case, porus aluminum. Any ideas what that could have been? Like I said it was the only piece of metal I saw and there were no shavings anywhere. Please someone respond before I have to answer my own question again..
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Old 08-02-2007, 07:45 AM   #23
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

Andre at Edge Racing says he took the converter apart and it was perfect. So that's not the problem. When I get it back we'll see if the sound is gone meaning it was the pump. If not I'll be back..
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:38 AM   #24
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

If I understand the thread correctly, there was no problem with the pump, or converter. I would suggest not running it until you find it. After the pump is removed, the trans comes apart into subassemblies rather quickly. I would suggest doing a visual of very torrington and bushing in the trans. It would be a shame if i went back in the car and something broke, killing the new converter.
If you are lucky, you will find something obvious. Bushings, gaskets and even used hardparts are dirt cheap. Myself and others likely have a good used part for almost free, should you need it.
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Old 08-06-2007, 09:27 AM   #25
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

With my complete lack of knowledge pertaining to transmissions I'm not sure I'll be able to spot the problem even if I take it apart. I'm really tired of throwing money at problems that only need a minor repair. If I disassemble the trans I'm sure everyone will say "just rebuild the entire thing and be safe" which is good advice but most likely not necessary. I just want to fix the problem. I’m not going to half-*** it, I'll do the job right but I don't want to engage myself in a project that's out of my league to address issues I don't have. Right now the trans squeaks from the front pump area in every gear. The noise increases volume and intensity with RPM and I barely have reverse. What should I see when I take the trans apart that would cause these issues?
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:27 AM   #26
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

if you barely have reverse, take out the drum right behind the pump at the very least(the steel one) and make sure the clutches and steels aren't burnt. tat drum is your reverse input drum.
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Old 08-07-2007, 07:57 AM   #27
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

I'll look at it tonight and post back. Thank you.
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Old 08-07-2007, 03:51 PM   #28
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSTA View Post
With my complete lack of knowledge pertaining to transmissions I'm not sure I'll be able to spot the problem even if I take it apart. I'm really tired of throwing money at problems that only need a minor repair. If I disassemble the trans I'm sure everyone will say "just rebuild the entire thing and be safe" which is good advice but most likely not necessary. I just want to fix the problem. Iím not going to half-*** it, I'll do the job right but I don't want to engage myself in a project that's out of my league to address issues I don't have. Right now the trans squeaks from the front pump area in every gear. The noise increases volume and intensity with RPM and I barely have reverse. What should I see when I take the trans apart that would cause these issues?
I agree 100%.
If you do not have the skill, you should not be inside of a 700. If I were to say it first, I may have offended you. Everything you mention in the above quote makes good sense. I "assumed" that you may have had some experience because you tackled the pump.
I strongly suggest taking it to a pro. Possibly a forum member in your area can help, or suggest a good, reasonable shop.
Good luck either way.
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Old 08-07-2007, 07:58 PM   #29
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

I have a no doubt that if I start the project I will complete it successfully but I'm just not sure what is bad and what is ok. Like I said the problem is throwing money at a problem that may not exist. I would buy the complete rebuild kit from Dana at ProBuilt and follow the instruction from this board to complete it but that's $500 at least and most likely isn't necessary. I put too much money into little problems that could easily be fixed if I simply took my time and diagnosed the problem. That's what I want to do here. If a rebuild is in order than that's what will happen. I completely agree with you about ruining the brand new converter for the want of $500 and a couple days.
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Old 08-10-2007, 08:22 AM   #30
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Re: 700R4 front pump problem

Well I finally got the converter back yesterday. I started the install and now know what has to be done. The pan has been sitting in my garage covered on my workbench. When I took a look at it I saw quite a bit of clutch material settled on the bottom and the magnet was pretty full. Looks like a rebuild IS in my future. I'm going to put it back in for the rest of the summer, what will probably amount to 100 miles of driving, just so I can say it saw the road this year. It'll be coming out in the fall and getting a complete rebuild: minis the new pump of course. ;-) Does anybody know if I can sort of build a custom rebuild kit by talking to Dana at ProBuilt? I want to maybe mix and match some components and get exactly what I need. Thank you everyone for your help with this problem.
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