1hotroc

iTrader: (3)

To those people out there who are experiencing those vibrations in the seats
and the center console like I am. I encourage you to check the transmission
output angle. It should be 90 degrees and the pinion angle should also be 90 degrees. The u joints on the dr. shaft need to be at a proper angle in order to not get vibrations from the u joints. I will be adjusting my setup like this.

http://jniolon.clubfte.com/driveline...nephasing.html

morrow

thats great info, thanks a bunch

morrow

have you done this yet?

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Honestly, I would swap it for a single piece crossmember before I did anything else. They are cheap enough in the wrecking yard to do it as an experiment.

I have heard too many people talk about the vibration you describe happening after switching to a poly mount. It seems they sometimes come with a spacer plate and that the plate added to the mount being a hair taller causes the vibration. Removing that spacer plate and lowering the trans seems to fix it most of the time.

Honestly though, if you took off the crossmember to weld it, it is just as easy to replace it with a good used piece.

1hotroc

iTrader: (3)

Anybody know where to get the shim out of the 3.1108 kit? The way my trans output angle is now, its at 86 degrees without the shim. I need the shim to raise up that angle to 90 degrees. Oh and yes I have been getting vibrations without the shim. I do think some people have had success by not using the shim, possibly because they were using the factory crossmember. In my case Im using the spohn crossmember and torque arm.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I would contact Jeg's or Summit; they have been really good about getting me that kind of "odds and ends" stuff in the past.

If it were me, though, I'd just make one. Keep shimming it with washers until you hit that magic 90 degrees, then take out the washer stack and make a plate the same thickness into a shim. Making a spacer plate is super easy, even if you don't have a big shop with lots of tools.

unseenT/A

I understand this thread is old, but if i hadn't seen it possibly would had lead me into spending $1,000's..

I had the lakewood poly mount and i was getting all sorts of drivetrain noise it felt like i was driving a tank, it was driving me INSANE!! i was getting ready to do all sorts of major tear downs etc. or possibly sell the car.

I switched to the OEM rubber mount and this car is just unbelievably smooth i really can't explain the difference.. Thank you TGO for having great minds and this thread available to us. Possibly saved me thousands.

This really need to be sticky'd

Nelz

Thank you for starting this thread. It now gives me an option to explore in my superram build as I'm having the back of the super ram plenum hit the wiper motor and one of the fixes was to change the transmission mount to tilt the motor up and away from the wiper motor. (This was after I did the rubber feet mod on the motor and changed the motor mounts to ES Poly mounts.) That means that theoretically to get the Super ram to fit, I need to change to the ES Poly trans mount and then set the pinion angle to get rid of the vibration. Which means that I may need to buy an adjustable torque arm to set the pinion angle parallel to the transmission output shaft angle to get rid of any vibrations. (As the stock OE mounts and non-adjustable torque arm were set for factory heights.)

novaderrik

in all this talk in all these threads about the poly transmission mounts, i don't think i've ever seen anyone suggest a rather simple solution that allows you to run the mount with the preload plate as it was designed to be run and get rid of the vibrations- make some shims to put between the crossmember and the frame rails that are the same thickness as the spacer plate.. you could experiment by stacking washers, then when you find that magical thickness that gets rid of the vibes just make a couple of spacers out of the appropriate bar stock and be done with it..

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

better question would be why would you have to do all that with a proper replacement part? If the poly mount was made right, this would not be an issue

jmd

iTrader: (4)

You don't need to do all that with ESs thinner mount they list for third and fourth gens.

Due to it working on a zillion other GM vehicles, the one that's "wrong" for third and fourth gens is just WAAAAAAAAAY more widely distributed and has far more marketing penetration.

I remember
- years back, scratching my head as to why it wasn't listed for third / fourth gens on catalogs and packaging that were well into the fourth gen years.
- noticing it's taller when I've installed them.
- experiencing ones with lots of miles not creating any problems in some third and fourth gen apps.
- seeing numerous people skip the pre-load plate and trying other things like grinding the bumps down with mixed results

If a well-worn ES "tall" mount causes vibrations that weren't there before and with no other changes, driveline angles are more than likely the issue.



If they shaped the plate to include a crossmember shim bolt pattern and included 2, they wouldn't have had to market a second design.

Nelz

That part number actually is not listed as an application for third and forth gen camaro's. Energy Suspension does not make a transmission cross mount for us.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

I rest my case.

Their catalogue PDF still doesn't list it.

3.1108 - problematic for third gens
3.1142 - is their product for the third and fourth gen, introduced @ SEMA 2012. No pre-load bumps; similar height to 3.1108 though.
3.1158 - shorter and may work, depending on what you're doing with a lowered car and driveline angles.

rickeyhenderson

iTrader: (1)

Definitely try shimming the crossmember to get the spacer thickness out of the equation. Just went through it over the weekend with the ES mount. Shimmed it last night and good through 100 mph and before it was horrible at 70 mph.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I'd simply purchase the Prothane mount, which is apparently the correct height, and avoid the shimming process altogether (though the Prothane mount didn't work for me either as detailed earlier in the post).

I'm thinking about trying the Prothane mount again, now that the rear end has been squared under the car. It was within spec before the alignment, but who knows. A check of the pinion angle is probably in order as well.

JamesC

jmd

iTrader: (4)

This post is from a while ago but if anyone needs one, I have a spare.

Nelz

I got the new 3.1142 transmission mount and it is physically shorter than the 3.1108 ES mount. I don't have any photos as I did it in the parts store, but it was half an inch shorter roughly. Maybe that changes the pinion angle enough to stop the vibrations.

Nelz

The 3.1142 measurements: Without the upper preload plate, the mount is 1.75 inches. With the preload plate it is 2.00 inches.

Funny. In the instructions.

"before installing the new mount, be sure to check the transmission crossmember for cracks or damage at the slotted hole areas. Repair or replace the crossmember if any damage is evident. On high performance (race condition) applications, reinforcing the area round the mounting point of the crossmember is recommended. (HOW THE HECK WOULD YOU DO THAT??????) This type of crossmember has an inherent problem with stress cracks around the bold holes. Always check the front engine mounts and replace if necessary."

Nelz

Can anyone measure the height of the 3.1108 ES and stock mount?

Nelz

The plate is .167 inches on the ES 3.1142

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

these are the reasons why i search and buy only gm parts for replacement.

TPI-Formula350-

just read both pages. I am replacing my stock OE rubber tranny mount. I am having an issue with my 3" LS1 aluminum drive shaft yoke rubbing slightly on the bottom of my drive shaft loop at WOT under heavy load from a stop. I'm running a UMI cross member/DS loop/adjustable torque arm. After check with an angle finder my DS angle is 0* and my pinion angle is -2*, which was the correct angle as per UMI tq arm instructions. So I ordered the ES 1108 mount from Summit, being I'll gain 1/8" and keep the DS from rubbing the DS loop. I'll ck my angles again after install, with a little luck it will help clearance the loop and I wont have any vibration issues.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

Amen brother. My car is stock height (Moog 5662/5665) and I had new U-joints put in about 5 years ago. The OE rubber transmission mount has needed replacing for awhile. Though never could really tell by driving feel alone.

I decided to put the Prothane mount in earlier this week, after reading this thread and seeing how it seems to have somewhat better luck than the ES mounts.

After 2 hours of driving on the highway today, my windows were vibrating the entire time. Left ear is warm feeling. I tried doing 60 mph on concrete highway and it was more of a pulsing than seat shaking vibration.

I also tried doing 75 mph (which has always been my favourite cruising speed with this car) on smooth blacktop and it was even worse than the 60 mph concrete. Totally takes away the joy of cruising down the highway.

OE rubber replacement is going back in next week.

peterc005

Energy Suspension changed the design of their polyurethane transmission mount fairly recently.

Older comments about the ES piece may need to be revisited.

TPI-Formula350-

My poly ES mount went in last week. I notice a little more vibration but nothing crazy. It corrected the issue I was having with the DS rubbing the DS loop.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

What, besides what's mentioned in post #63, have you observed?

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...27-post63.html

peterc005

I believe the earlier Energy Suspension transmission mount was too tall, causing vibration.

The newer part appears to be the correct height. I've got the newer ES mount and the height appears fine to me, although the OEM mount was in poor condition so it's part to compare.

The ES mount appears a much better design than the OEM one.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

The Prothane mount is too, but it didn't remove the vibration in my car.

JamesC

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Interesting and problematic, I guess. The Prothane mount measures right at 1.75 and requires no preload plate, making it shorter than the 3.1142 which is apparently designed for our cars.

For the sake of information: Has anyone who previously experienced vibration issues with ES 3.1108 or Prothane version tried the 3.1142? If so what was the outcome?

JamesC

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

I haven't used the ES mount. But I can say that the Prothane appears to have the same mileage differences. More below.

So "next week" is apparently today. I bought the Anchor # 2394 rubber transmission mount today. My experiences with the Prothane over the last 2 months have changed slightly with time.

Immediately after install, it would vibrate anytime and anywhere. Sitting at a stoplight, I'd get vibration. Accelerating from 0-25 mph, it might vibrate or it might not. Accelerating onto the highway from 30-60 mph, it would definitely vibrate. And it would have a chopiness at highway speeds. The most annoying aspect being the window vibration I'd get. Nothing bothers your left ear quite like having the driver side window vibrating non stop.

I gave a co-worker a ride home the day before Thanksgiving. And it was embarrassing how much the car vibrated during the highway drive home. (Her first time in the car)

After about 2 weeks or so, it would lessen down to vibrating on an on/off basis based on the above. Sometimes it would. Sometimes it wouldn't.

After a month, I noticed that I only get vibration at 2500+ RPM. This makes cruising down the highway for the most part a non-factor in vibration. And idling around town is OK too. You do notice it when you're giving it some gas pedal around town. When you accelerate to 2500-3000 RPM, you get the vibration before the shift occurs.

I've been going WOT a lot less since the Prothane went in. Because once you go 3000+ RPM, you get what sounds like a rusty chain clanging around down there. Vibrations are definitely noticeable. It takes all the fun out of going WOT.

jmd above mentioned that over time the poly mounts soften up a bit. I can vouch for this. But, it's an excruciating wait for it to soften up.

Like JamesC, I'm tired of all the work arounds in dealing with the poly mount. So I'm ready to go back to vibration free at any RPM rubber.

IROCgiraffe

iTrader: (3)

subscribed.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

I agree with the above statement. My Prothane poly mount had been in there for several months of daily driving. Part of me learned to drive around the issues with it. Part of me got used to it. But in all honesty, the vibration was still there.

It's a cruel joke that in an effort to get rid of poly transmission mount vibration, we end up buying a crossmember mounted torque arm, which takes the strain off the transmission. That allows us to set the pinion angle just right (and get rid of pinion angle induced vibration). It also allows us to go back to a rubber transmission mount......Except that then we complain about the cross member torque arm causing it's own set of vibrations. (Ever notice there are always cross member torque arms for sale with low miles?)

But getting back to what James mentioned above. I've gone back to the stock Anchor brand rubber transmission mount (still have stock torque arm). And the vibrations are GONE! Now when I pull the car out of O/D into Drive when going 40 mph, there is nothing but RPM. No more humming and bucking. No chain clanging noise when I bring the throttle up to 4000 RPM in 2nd gear. I can enjoy the sound of my exhaust instead of cringing from the vibration of the transmission.

Is there anything I miss about the poly mount? Not really. There is a tiny minor stiffness in shifting that comes with it. I already have a Pro Built Automatics shift kit. The poly mount adds about 5% stiffer shifts. The shifts with the poly mount are barely even perceptible in increased stiffness, even to myself. If you're going through mounts every couple of months, I suppose you could go with the Protane mount. If you drag race regularly with a high HP engine, I could see going with the Prothane. But for a daily driven car? No thank you. I'm sticking with rubber. It just makes the car so much more enjoyable to drive. If the rubber one breaks in a year, I'll spend the $7 for another one.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Reid and James: Making me want to go back to rubber too... Driving the car now compared to my 2008 charger; I mean what a difference.. I have a rebuilt performance HARD shifting 700R4 and don't want to tear up the rubber one, how much HP / TQ are you guys running with the rubber ones?

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

I have less power than you. With a converter, I'd think the vibrations would be amplified with the poly mount. (higher RPM use)

Granted, higher HP is going to be harder on pretty much any part. But there V6 people on the board who've been through half a dozen mounts and V8 people who have gone years without breaking one. I think it really depends on driving style.

I'd say go for the rubber. For the small cost involved and the minimal time it takes to swap them out, you don't have much to lose. But lots to gain in enjoyment.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

That's my take in a nutshell. That said, I purchased an angle finder a while back, thinking at some point I'd measure pinion angle with both rubber and Prothane. Might be interesting.

JamesC

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

James: Please do. Until then, I'll probably buy 2 or 3 rubber ones just to be on the safe side

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Don't hold your breath--the older I get, the less motivated I become .

On top of that I have a new toy that's been occupying my time--a Magma Red Metallic 2013 370Z Touring (with sports package and nav). Dang thing is wicked cool, if I say so myself.

JamesC

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Always liked those, even the 350z is nice. How is handling on that car vs. the IROC?

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I'm afraid the 370 would kick the poor IROC around every which way.

JamesC

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Sigh.. There must be a way to beat it lol

TPI-Formula350-

just an update on my car, def more vibration at higher RPMs. The ES mount corrected my clearance issue with DS loop. I was tearing a part the rubber ones a lot. So I guess I'll have to make the trade off... Vibration doesn't bother me much.

fastrex

I have had bad vibration since I got my car. I finally got around to checking the mount. The previous owner put in the ES mount so I swaped in the Anchor OEM one. It changed the car. It's actually enjoyable to drive and can now stay in gear at higher RPM's. The vibration at idle is gone also.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Anyone know of a good source for a good quality OEM / GM Trans Mount?

The $4 ones from the auto parts scare me...

Rafael

Ron U.S.M.C.

I tried to use the ES #3.1108G mount about a year ago.
It was too tall even without the preload bar.

I was told by a friend that ES had made some changes to the design so I tried it again.

It was not perfect because it was still to tall with the preload bar.

Without the preload bar it fit perfect and have not had vibration "problems" at any speed.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...7_270987_5934_

I also have the ES motor mounts so when I say NO VIBRATION "PROBLEMS" I don't mean it drives like a Cadillac.

Nor would I want it to.

IROCgiraffe

iTrader: (3)

I am running the ES mount as well, no problems.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Wow... Found a guy on Ebay selling all sorts of GM Genuine parts... He stated part is discontinued...
"The cost would be $130.48 and $7.00 dollars shipping"

I just stopped by the shop today, getting rear end / clutch and stuff put in and the ES mount does have the plate installed... so I will test later and see... It is a few years old... also getting Spohn cross member mounted torque arm installed...

We'll see how it rolls... I'm starting to like the $4 ones now

Rafael

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

I emailed Energy Suspension...
"3.1158 is .40 shorter if it is a tail shaft height issue This is our latest mount // the 3.1142 will soften the traction bar hit and idle characteristics if it has correct output height on the tailshaft as it matches the 3.1108 height of 1.93 If you would like to go over detais;l plese call us "

To summarize...
The 3.1108 & newer (designed for 3rd and 4th Gen Fbodies) are same height of 1.93
The newest one, 3.1158 is .4 shorter, meaning 1.53.
I thought the stock was 1.75...
I'm REALLY leaning towards the correct height Prothane...

Rafael

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

Installed my Prothane afte a tranny swap showed that my mount was split right in two, so that was the cause of the banging. Anyway, I bought the Prothane Mount and when I compared them as best I could the Prothane appeared taller, but this was a split stock piece it was compared against. It's installed and feels great when I launch and don't hear a bang underneath me. I'm not sure if this slight vibration is from the mount or not, but overall, its very minimal. The roads are felt much more than this possible trans mount vibration. I've changed so much during the swap, I don't want to call out the vibration being due to the mount just yet. But overall, I like it.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

If you've missed them, check post #15 for comparison pics. BTW, I still experience a vibration issue with the Prothane mount.

JamesC

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

I know, I like to read I was just stating the situation I went through. Hoping that he read from the 1st post on as well.

I want to say the vibration is the mount, but like I said I've installed a different trans, TC and moved my exhaust a bit, which was rubbing my ebrake bracket in the driveshaft tunnel. So maybe it's hitting something else again? Still, it's an ever-so-slight vibration and can only be felt when on the throttle, which presents more vibration from the motor/mounts/road condition and slight twist of the headers through the exhaust, as I also need to get a 4th gen hanger for the catalytic converter.