shred5150

Hey everyone,
Kind of a noobish thread to start but I checked my trans fluid this weekend in my 88 Formula with a 700r4 and its looking kind of low. So I decided this coming weekend im going to change the trans fluid. I know I need a new gasket, filter and new fluid. My question is ..is there any specific fluid you would recommend putting in the trans.? (companies, brand etc.)..And is there anything else I should replace/check while I have the trans. pan off?
Thanks

80schild

iTrader: (5)

Many people recommend upgrading to Dexron 6, this is what GM now uses in the 6-speed automatics. It's supposed to be a lot better fluid and it's synthetic.

89fbirdformula

If the car has substantial miles on it, with no proven previous maint history, id pass on the trans drain/filter/fill..

Its been shown to shorten the life of the trans, and its happened to me before as well..

camaronewbie

The old fluid has tiny particles in it that act as a friction additive - you change the fluid on a tranny that hasn't been changed in a long time, and it's going to slip on you. Unless you know for sure that it's been changed in the last 40,000 miles, I wouldn't change it, just add to it.

You are checking it while the car is running and tranny is hot right?

ls1fiend

My dad told me (take this with a grain of salt guys, I don't trust everything he says considering he is afraid of mid 85 up technology) but using ford style tranny fluid will make a car shift harder because it doesn't have an additive to make the tranny shift smooth. I stress to take this with a grain of salt, he is incredibly talented mechanically just stuck 3 decades back.

Apeiron

Old Ford Type-F fluid has different friction modifiers which will make it shift harder. B&M sells the same thing with purple dye added and calls it Trick Shift.

DJP87Z28

Not changing fluid on your high miles tranny is a old Myth passed along like the some of the above Posts. New fluids with mechanical parts is like a tansfusion and causes no harm but increases the life of the parts.

89fbirdformula

terrible advice. plain and simple.

DJP87Z28

Above reply is based on what miss- information????

89fbirdformula

The fact that, its happened to myself before, and TONS of people..

its not just a myth, the fresh detergents in ATF break up sludge and deposits, plugs up valve bodys/clogs filters..

trans = dead shortly after..

its not a myth.

shred5150

Well I got half of the people telling me to change it now and half saying not to..now what do I do?

Ron U.S.M.C.

Check it hot and running and top it off with Dexron 3 ATF if necessary . At least for now. I will admit that before I bought my car it had sat for at least 3 years and said 89,000 on the spedo. I'm guessing that's been turned over. So when I finally had the chance I changed all the fluids and filters.( Mobil 1 extended performance synthetic motor oil ) I did not do a flush on the auto trans because I had herd some bad things but did drop the pan using Castrol Dexron 3 and changed the filter. I only put about 10,000 mi. on it in the last 5 years. Personally I have had no problems so far. Found out the car has a shift kit. I put in a corvette servo and car shifts nice and firm. Thats been my experience.

jnk90rs

im the second owner of my 90 rs 3.1. it has 50,118 ACTUAL miles on it. i got it at 41,000, ran like a dream. at 45,000miles, changed the fluid and filter. now it slips and slams like effin hell! id say, top it off. personal experience says its a bad idea to change it. listen to 89birdformula on this one. nothing against djp87z28 (or what hes sayin) just, it happened to me.

80schild

iTrader: (5)

I look at it this way, if your tranny is so worn that it depends on debris particles to make it work, it's probably shot and about to fail anyways. A good transmission should be able to function properly with clean fluid, period.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Advice for anyone with a brand new tranny? I have about 2k miles on mine... Should I just keep topping it off or change filter/fluid at like a certain interval like 20k miles?

DJP87Z28

:
Never had that problem, my tranny fluid has been changed at regular intervals. However: I am the original owner and the above statement is true..So the MYTH lives on and good luck to the people that belive it.

89fbirdformula

You are an idiot..Open your eyes, and READ.

Fluid that has been changed regularly, there will not be an issue with, continuing the service will have no ill effects, and is recomended to get max life from an auto trans...

The problem comes from vehicles with high mileage, and unknown service records, the problem has nothing to do with friction materials being lost...the problem comes fro mthe detergents in the FRESH ATF, releasing the built up gunk in the trans{if high mile/never had fluid change}

this gunk is now free to move about, and clogs up the filter, and valve body passages, its NOT a myth, it DOES/CAN/WILL happen.

The same thing happens when people use engine oil additives meant to "clean" an engine internally, on higher mileage motors that have never had regular oil changes, varnish and gunk build up...

the detergents and cleaning agents in those chemicals get broken up, and are again, FREE to move about..surely you dont think they all magically end up in the oil filter do you? NO...they clog vital oil passages/plug up filters/plug up the pickup screen, you lose oil pressure, bearings get starved...motor = garbago.

Stop spewing terrible advice to these people, its obvious you have no clue.

TO the OP...if you can find service records that prove a maint history, or trust whoever has owned it previously..go ahead and do a drain/filter/refill..

If this information is nonexistent, honestly, if i were you, id top the trans off with fluid, and leave it alone.

DJP87Z28

Yea, information from a idiot who trys to be a know it all. So according to you never change any fluids. Yes, a smart idea.

Apeiron

Both of you can settle down.

DJP87Z28, what everyone is saying is that in an abused and neglected car, changing the fluid on a transmission already worn by fluid past its service life is likely to make that damage readily apparent, instead of the transmission continuing to limp on for a while before failing. Nobody is saying that it's better to never change the fluid, or that there are no consequences to not changing it.

Change it on time, or don't change it at all.

stielow775

I changed my 92 z28 dropped the pan, changed the filter, and filled it back up with 4 quarts and its shifted alot better. I wouldnt flush it but just do that to make sure its clean. I also adjusted the transmission adjuster on the throttle and that made a great diffrence. I had a lx450 landcruiser and would change the fluid every other oil change and the transmission lasted 280,000 miles on it. Based off of 11 quarts that ours hold it would take about 3-4 oil changes to flush it about 80 percent.

I wouldnt recommend having a shop flush it, or changing more than the above. But if your filter is clogged that is going to starve your transmission also. I think its up to you. But i would.

For what its worth.


Matt

WHTrunner

I dropped the pan on my 700r4 about 3k miles ago to replace the gasket, and decided to replace the filter while I was at it. I didn't flush the tranny, but I used new fluid.

I didn't know what the maintenance record was, but it runs and shifts just like it did before I replaced the fluid.

Maybe I got lucky. But I suppose I have a few thousand miles more to go to really find out.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

I think my post got lost in the shinanigans... anyone?

camaronewbie

I'd change it at a regular interval on a new tranny or new rebuild - whatever standard interval is recommended. I saw above someone said every other oil change - that's way overboard IMO - that means I would have changed tranny fluid 3 times in the last 15 months? Too much for me!

Apeiron

Change the fluid and filter at the recommended interval.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

ok cool... recommended interval: does this depend on the type of trans or how I drive the car? It's mostly a daily driver (2-3 times per week, occasional race)

Ron U.S.M.C.

I don't have a owners manual but I do have a Chiltons .This is what it says in the Chiltons manual . They are referring to a pan drop and filter change on a automatic trans. Thats it . Nothing about a flush. =
The automatic transmission fluid and filter should be changed every 15,000 miles if your Camaro is driven in heavy city traffic in hot weather, in hilly or mountainous terrain,frequent trailer pulling, or uses such as found in taxi, police car or delivery service. If your Camaro is driven under other than listed above conditions, change the fluid and filter every 30,000 miles. They don't say anything about time. Just miles. I'm sure there are allot of other things to take into consideration and this is not to start any heated debates but to give him a general idea of what to expect for service on a properly maintained transmission. Anyone want to add to this or make corrections so we have the proper information.

chronos51

this may sound ignorant but if i am reading all these posts right its the new ATF that is causing issues, what if mind you what if you drop the fluid install a shift correction kit, change filter and gasket then put the old fluid back in after you've strained the fluid?
the detergents in the New ATF wont clean the gunk and plug up the filter or passageways instead your putting back what you've taken out.

just a stupid thought i know but I am considering installing a shift correction kit due to the erratic shifting on the 700r4 transmission that most do have issues with the shifting

JessieJames

can anyone answer this?

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

You know, I once had somebody who ONLY drank beer. No water. No juices. Just beer, tell me that drinking only beer was healthy. Because his urine was always clear. And that anytime he would try switching to straight water, his urine would become dark yellow and yucky. My answer was "Of course! Switching to water is actually getting the crud out of your body."

It's not much different when it comes to transmissions.

Let's take old burnt black transmission fluid. It isn't going to lubricate very well. And it's not going to cool very well either. If you have a problem with crud getting gunked up in the system, doing nothing is only going to add MORE gunk to the system.

I don't care if it's a concrete pump hose, a bathroom sink drain pipe, a chimney, or a transmission line. Flushing any of them out with the proper tools will result in a better longer lasting function. That's the whole idea of getting a transmission flush in the first place. To get new fluid to all the areas and clear out the old burnt dark non lubricating oil.

My transmission started slipping in January 2011. Was it the shift kit that I put in in August 2007? Or was it simply time to get the fluids changed?......I changed the fluids in January 2011 (it's a daily driver). After that, it shifted perfectly. Exactly the same way that it did after the shift kit went in. It still shifts the same way now. New oil is going to be good for any car related function.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

Go with new fluid. You've got it apart anyways. You might as well do it properly.

Formula 305

I did a fluid/filter on my 90 700R4 3 years/15,000 miles ago and it held together, and a lot of those are HARD miles. Drag strip a few times, a half dozen or so Auto-Xs, 2 or 3 days on a road course, countless long hauls, 1000+ mile road trips ect.

The trans still drove fine when I pulled it in September because I really wanted a T-5

I did use the B&M trickshift fluid when I filled it back up.

230 firebird

My trans was rebuilt at 80,000 miles.I havent changed fluid since and now iI have 158,000.I have owned this car since it had 9000 miles on it.Is a 87 firebird

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

The 2.8v6 doesn't put a lot of strain on the tranny since it doesn't make a whole lot of power. But still I think it's just how you drive it and how you shift it (if always downshifting you'll destroy it faster than if you drive normally)

w41duvernay

I just had a complete rebuild on a 700r4 for my hopped up 86 Lg4 firebird . What would be better Dextron 3 Or 6 here.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Use 3 dont use 6. On the issue of changing the fluid it really the condition of the trans that will dictate that. If its still a bit red and usable replacing it should be no problem. You can actually flush this yourself right at home. After replacing the pan gasket and filter add fluid to recommended level. Through the gears 4 times. Then Remove the feed line and put a clear hose on it 6 ft. Get an empty 1 gallon water jug. Start car in park and let idle to fill up jug. Stop engine. Dump out fluid and repeat the fill and through gear process. More than likley 3- 4 gallons will do it. Running 1 gallon out of the trans will no screw anything up. More than this you will be pushing air bubbles.

w41duvernay

thanks for that! I went out and got 10 Quarts of tranny fluid Castrol Dextron/mextron today. So I will be read to do the tranny swap in a couple of weeks.

paulo57509

Why?

TylerSteez

iTrader: (3)

this.

I'd rather put fresh fluid in and see if it sinks or swims. if old trans fluid is the only thing keeping it going then I'd rather it not be in my car.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

6 has more detergents than 3 for one which will losen debris in the trans. 3 is what the 700r4s are made for. Plus its cheaper.

severe97

After reading all this, I'm not sure if I should change my oil or not. I picked up a 92 Z28 with 110k miles. It looks like it sat for some time. The trans oil is dark brown, no records of previous maintenance. I think I'm better off dropping the pan and changing the filter, no flush.

TylerSteez

iTrader: (3)

you could always drain a quart and add a quart of new fluid to slowly change it over.

i know this doesn’t remove the risk of loosening up grime and clogging passages but i personally would rather take the chance and possibly have my transmission rebuilt than to have to limp around and baby a trans with old nasty fluid.

severe97

Thanks, I agree. I'm gonna give it a try and see how that goes. Otherwise I found a shop that can rebuild for $750 with a core, 1 yr warranty.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

I've seen problems if you flush the trans, like convertor chatter on lockup.Just changing the fluid shouldn't cause issues depending on how hard the trans life has been. Just use parts store mercon 3 equivalent. You should be fine. If a fluid change destroys your trans, it was ready to go anyway.

formula00ra

iTrader: (1)

here, here.

severe97

So today I dropped the transmission pan and drained the oil. It looked like milk shake (light brown color), I'm glad I did, I must've drained about 4 quarts, replaced the filter and added new transmission fluid (synthetic Dextron/Mercom).
I also replaced the radiator, water pump so hopefully i got a good chunk of the old oil out. I cant wait to get her running. Thanks for the help.