TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
01-20-2015, 03:33 PM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
Ok now that I have finally decided that this is the best path for me, i have some questions that may seem dumb but i want to make sure i understand it. I sifted though some threads but got lots of info and want to make sure its right.
This is a 1991 Camaro with a 27 spline input shaft(narrow 700r4)
1. First, If i get a 9 inch tailshaft Th350 I can buy a kit such as this
http://www.jegs.com/i/Hurst/530/550-0001/10002/-1
This will allow me to use my stock cross member and torque arm..exc
2. Next id also need this part... ?? I cant find one that will allow me to adapt the mechanical speedo gears on the TH350 to the VSS electronic style on the 700r4.
3. In my application i also need this adapter plate but it seems pretty straight forward on the installation.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/60-Deg...late,3280.html
4. Now I also have heard of a adapter spacer being used to mount a 700r4 tailshaft onto the Th350. This would save alot of trouble and pain but I have yet to find any sort of part number. Any ideas there? Then i could retain my stock vss and all the mounting of the trans.
Thanks for any tips on the job or advice!
This is a 1991 Camaro with a 27 spline input shaft(narrow 700r4)
1. First, If i get a 9 inch tailshaft Th350 I can buy a kit such as this
http://www.jegs.com/i/Hurst/530/550-0001/10002/-1
This will allow me to use my stock cross member and torque arm..exc
2. Next id also need this part... ?? I cant find one that will allow me to adapt the mechanical speedo gears on the TH350 to the VSS electronic style on the 700r4.
3. In my application i also need this adapter plate but it seems pretty straight forward on the installation.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/60-Deg...late,3280.html
4. Now I also have heard of a adapter spacer being used to mount a 700r4 tailshaft onto the Th350. This would save alot of trouble and pain but I have yet to find any sort of part number. Any ideas there? Then i could retain my stock vss and all the mounting of the trans.
Thanks for any tips on the job or advice!
01-20-2015, 06:40 PM
#2
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
this is from dana as he posted it in my thread
obviously u wont need some of the listed mods
obviously u wont need some of the listed mods
Use the gear train (planetaries, ring gears, drums, etc.) from the TH350C, as it should have much less miles.
When building a TH350 for street racing or drag racing, use the late pump if possible that came with the needle roller bearing instead of a thrust washer. It offers a better direct drum bushing to surface contact area, and the white plastic ring that sits next to the needle roller bearing helps to keep the direct drum centered to prevent the 2nd gear roller clutch from breaking. Use the wide bushing in the direct drum. It is in the rebuild kit.
The Blue Plate Specials are good but expensive, factory Borg Warner, Alto Reds are fine for direct, and depending on the direct apply piston you have, machine the piston to except 5 clutches. Set the direct clutch clearance at .060"- .075", for forward shift pattern and when using the intermediate band. This .060" - .075" clutch clearance is to prevent the band from burning on the 2-3 upshift.
As for the intermediate band, use the welded Carbon lined band. For the intermediate clutches, the Blue Plate Specials are good but expensive, factory Borg Warner, Alto Reds are fine. For a "quick" WOT 1-2 manual shift, take a used low/reverse clutch and remove all of the lining by scraping, take a hacksaw and cut it open, file down any high spots, and install this under the intermediate apply piston. This will eliminate the 1-2 manual shift delay at WOT. If you "do not" do this you will have a shift delay of 500 - 700 rpm . "DO NOT" remove the waved steel in the intermediate clutch pack. The waved steel will prevent the intermediate sprag race from breaking. Set the intermediate clutch clearance at .030" - .040".
In the forward pack, "always" use the waved steel (from late TH350's & TH350C's) that has the 3 tangs on it. It sits against the forward piston. Use Borg Warner clutches here as they are the best. Forward clutch clearance .020" - .040". If you have the forward drum that is lighter than the normal TH350, use it. Kind of rare, but if you want one, I can tell you where to get them. They are not expensive. It will have a large area machined on the outer part of front area of the drum. The weight removed was apx. 1 1/2 - 1 3/4 pounds.
For the low/reverse steels, use the turbulator steels from a 1996 and later 4L60E transmission. Less drag. Borg Warner clutches are best here. If you can get your hands on a low/reverse support from a 1987 & up 700R4 or 4L60E. The roller clutch is .150" wider than the TH350, and offers much better wear, and the rollers rarely ****. Just match the pressure plate area of the low/reverse support on the TH350 for thickness, and match it to the 700R4/4L60E low/reverse support to keep the same clutch clearance. To get the correct clutch clearance, you will have to change the steel thickness to get it correct. Low/reverse clutch clearance .030" - .060". Use the TH350C spring retainers in "all the clutch packs", much easier to assemble.
The output shaft has a bushing in it sometimes, remove and use the plastic insert (late TH350's) to get lube to the rear section of the unit. Use the Vega sunshell they are completely hollowed out, which makes them very light, and is excellent for drag racing, especially on the 60ft times. I have these for $35.00. I have never seen one break from high horsepower. Use the bronze case bushing, & teflon extension housing bushing, with the three lip Vamac seal. Make sure that the driveshaft yoke is in perfect condition and made smooth as possible (polished), where the bushing & seal rides. Always use solid U-joints, never with Zerx fittings.
Use the plastic washers instead of the bronze washers where possible. You can safely run tighter end clearance with these thrust washers. When using bronze or metal thrust washers, you will need to flat sand them in most cases, as they are not flat. If you have the planets and hubs with bearings, better yet. End clearance .015" - .020", or .004" for every bronze or metal thrust washer that is used. Add a pan magnet or two. For the filter, use the Sealed Power Dacron from the TH350C, this is an excellent filter. As for the valve body modifications, use the TransGo Performance Shift kit, they offer it in automatic & full manual.
Replace any plastic accumulator pistons with aluminum. Use cast iron sealing rings on the accumulator pistons, and teflon scarf cut sealing ring rings on the stator shaft. Do not block off the 2nd accumulator as it will help to prevent the sprag race from breaking. When using the TransGo Performance Shift kit, it offers the "dual feed" of the direct apply piston in high gear. Leave off the middle sealing ring on the stator shaft for the direct apply. DO NOT remove inner rubber sealing ring in the direct drum. This slows down the release of the clutches when making a 3-2 downshift. These modifications were what we started doing many years ago in 10 & 9 second vehicles, and were worth some in terms of a drop in ET, and a slight gain in mph, and they held up very well. Use a Dexron type fluid only. Amsoil is very good synthetic fluid. No B&M Trick Shift or Ford type "F" fluid. Use Lubrication Engineers Monolec 7500 for extreme duty use.
I have complete kits for these. DO NOT remove the waved steel on the intermediate clutches as this will break the intermediate race. The "so called" hardened race is actually made a little softer to "give" on the 1-2 shift. It was to hard from the factory, and that is why it would break occasionally.
Go to: https://www.700r4l60e.com/store/prod...&cat=21&page=1
This rebuild kit is very complete as you can see. Call me with any questions if you want.
When building a TH350 for street racing or drag racing, use the late pump if possible that came with the needle roller bearing instead of a thrust washer. It offers a better direct drum bushing to surface contact area, and the white plastic ring that sits next to the needle roller bearing helps to keep the direct drum centered to prevent the 2nd gear roller clutch from breaking. Use the wide bushing in the direct drum. It is in the rebuild kit.
The Blue Plate Specials are good but expensive, factory Borg Warner, Alto Reds are fine for direct, and depending on the direct apply piston you have, machine the piston to except 5 clutches. Set the direct clutch clearance at .060"- .075", for forward shift pattern and when using the intermediate band. This .060" - .075" clutch clearance is to prevent the band from burning on the 2-3 upshift.
As for the intermediate band, use the welded Carbon lined band. For the intermediate clutches, the Blue Plate Specials are good but expensive, factory Borg Warner, Alto Reds are fine. For a "quick" WOT 1-2 manual shift, take a used low/reverse clutch and remove all of the lining by scraping, take a hacksaw and cut it open, file down any high spots, and install this under the intermediate apply piston. This will eliminate the 1-2 manual shift delay at WOT. If you "do not" do this you will have a shift delay of 500 - 700 rpm . "DO NOT" remove the waved steel in the intermediate clutch pack. The waved steel will prevent the intermediate sprag race from breaking. Set the intermediate clutch clearance at .030" - .040".
In the forward pack, "always" use the waved steel (from late TH350's & TH350C's) that has the 3 tangs on it. It sits against the forward piston. Use Borg Warner clutches here as they are the best. Forward clutch clearance .020" - .040". If you have the forward drum that is lighter than the normal TH350, use it. Kind of rare, but if you want one, I can tell you where to get them. They are not expensive. It will have a large area machined on the outer part of front area of the drum. The weight removed was apx. 1 1/2 - 1 3/4 pounds.
For the low/reverse steels, use the turbulator steels from a 1996 and later 4L60E transmission. Less drag. Borg Warner clutches are best here. If you can get your hands on a low/reverse support from a 1987 & up 700R4 or 4L60E. The roller clutch is .150" wider than the TH350, and offers much better wear, and the rollers rarely ****. Just match the pressure plate area of the low/reverse support on the TH350 for thickness, and match it to the 700R4/4L60E low/reverse support to keep the same clutch clearance. To get the correct clutch clearance, you will have to change the steel thickness to get it correct. Low/reverse clutch clearance .030" - .060". Use the TH350C spring retainers in "all the clutch packs", much easier to assemble.
The output shaft has a bushing in it sometimes, remove and use the plastic insert (late TH350's) to get lube to the rear section of the unit. Use the Vega sunshell they are completely hollowed out, which makes them very light, and is excellent for drag racing, especially on the 60ft times. I have these for $35.00. I have never seen one break from high horsepower. Use the bronze case bushing, & teflon extension housing bushing, with the three lip Vamac seal. Make sure that the driveshaft yoke is in perfect condition and made smooth as possible (polished), where the bushing & seal rides. Always use solid U-joints, never with Zerx fittings.
Use the plastic washers instead of the bronze washers where possible. You can safely run tighter end clearance with these thrust washers. When using bronze or metal thrust washers, you will need to flat sand them in most cases, as they are not flat. If you have the planets and hubs with bearings, better yet. End clearance .015" - .020", or .004" for every bronze or metal thrust washer that is used. Add a pan magnet or two. For the filter, use the Sealed Power Dacron from the TH350C, this is an excellent filter. As for the valve body modifications, use the TransGo Performance Shift kit, they offer it in automatic & full manual.
Replace any plastic accumulator pistons with aluminum. Use cast iron sealing rings on the accumulator pistons, and teflon scarf cut sealing ring rings on the stator shaft. Do not block off the 2nd accumulator as it will help to prevent the sprag race from breaking. When using the TransGo Performance Shift kit, it offers the "dual feed" of the direct apply piston in high gear. Leave off the middle sealing ring on the stator shaft for the direct apply. DO NOT remove inner rubber sealing ring in the direct drum. This slows down the release of the clutches when making a 3-2 downshift. These modifications were what we started doing many years ago in 10 & 9 second vehicles, and were worth some in terms of a drop in ET, and a slight gain in mph, and they held up very well. Use a Dexron type fluid only. Amsoil is very good synthetic fluid. No B&M Trick Shift or Ford type "F" fluid. Use Lubrication Engineers Monolec 7500 for extreme duty use.
I have complete kits for these. DO NOT remove the waved steel on the intermediate clutches as this will break the intermediate race. The "so called" hardened race is actually made a little softer to "give" on the 1-2 shift. It was to hard from the factory, and that is why it would break occasionally.
Go to: https://www.700r4l60e.com/store/prod...&cat=21&page=1
This rebuild kit is very complete as you can see. Call me with any questions if you want.
01-20-2015, 07:24 PM
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
u can use that kit to make the th350 bolt in
i have also heard and seen some of the adpater blocks to pu tthe 700r4 tailhousing on but dont know were to buy them
i think u can put ur vss into the th350 tailhousing but not 100% sure on that
and the adpater plate is pretty simple , u do need to grind the block in 2 places though for bolt clearnce
i have also heard and seen some of the adpater blocks to pu tthe 700r4 tailhousing on but dont know were to buy them
i think u can put ur vss into the th350 tailhousing but not 100% sure on that
and the adpater plate is pretty simple , u do need to grind the block in 2 places though for bolt clearnce
01-21-2015, 04:09 PM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
I talked to a shop up here that does do those 700r tail conversions onto the TH350. You have to space it out extend the shaft...exc.
If I can just find a adapter to make the mechanical TH350 speedo convert the signal to my ecm ill just do the normal TH350 swap tail and all.
I ordered a freakshow converter today and the adapter plate for the 60* v6 to TH350. So the build is moving along parts wise. Ive heard nothing but good things about freakshow so hopefully they proceed their reputation.
If I can just find a adapter to make the mechanical TH350 speedo convert the signal to my ecm ill just do the normal TH350 swap tail and all.
I ordered a freakshow converter today and the adapter plate for the 60* v6 to TH350. So the build is moving along parts wise. Ive heard nothing but good things about freakshow so hopefully they proceed their reputation.
01-22-2015, 06:26 AM
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
Can get a 4K PPM magnetic VSS that threads onto the trans cable drive. If not enough room (hits tunnel) use a short section of speedometer cable.
See JagsThatRuns for the VSS & extension cable.
RBob.
See JagsThatRuns for the VSS & extension cable.
RBob.
01-22-2015, 03:05 PM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
This Rbob? http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Spe...eedometer.html
Here is probably a dumb question but for my 7730 the vss has to be (number 1 on the pics) 4000ppm? The reason I ask is because the (number 2 on the pics) 2000ppm is much shorter. Also im not sure if the threads on the cable hook up on the TH350 is metric but I would think its std but I could be wrong.
Thanks so much for the help though. Its amazing how hard it is to find definite info on that part of the swap.
Dakota also sells a part that sends out a 8k ppm signal. I question how high I can turn up my PPM on my bin file.
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...109/prd109.htm
With a 8k ppm signal..... if the ecm would accept it with my modification to the bin.... wouldn't the stock speed do go nuts? It requires a 2k ppm correct? That is a output that can not be changed. The ecm takes in 4k and sends 2k out to the speedo without any option for calibration via tuning.
Here is probably a dumb question but for my 7730 the vss has to be (number 1 on the pics) 4000ppm? The reason I ask is because the (number 2 on the pics) 2000ppm is much shorter. Also im not sure if the threads on the cable hook up on the TH350 is metric but I would think its std but I could be wrong.
Thanks so much for the help though. Its amazing how hard it is to find definite info on that part of the swap.
Dakota also sells a part that sends out a 8k ppm signal. I question how high I can turn up my PPM on my bin file.
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...109/prd109.htm
With a 8k ppm signal..... if the ecm would accept it with my modification to the bin.... wouldn't the stock speed do go nuts? It requires a 2k ppm correct? That is a output that can not be changed. The ecm takes in 4k and sends 2k out to the speedo without any option for calibration via tuning.
Last edited by fasteddi; 01-22-2015 at 04:06 PM.
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01-23-2015, 03:39 AM
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
fast the simplest way is to get a 3inch spacer block , and use it on a 9inch tailshaft th350 witht he 700r4 housing , as long as u have a 9inch tail th350 u dont have to do anything to the output shaft
with mine i had a 9inch tail th350c and a 6 inch tail th350 , so i stole the tailhousing and output shaft out of the th350c to put in the th350 . im not using any of the adpater kits as i can use the mechanical speedo, the trans mount can be adapted very easily with a small piece of steel plate that bolts or is welded to the factory crossmember.
as far as the tq arm mount im going to make my own of the crossmember , u can weld so u should be able to do both urself withotu having to spend 100-140bucks on the 700r4 to th350 adapter kit for the mount and tq arm
with mine i had a 9inch tail th350c and a 6 inch tail th350 , so i stole the tailhousing and output shaft out of the th350c to put in the th350 . im not using any of the adpater kits as i can use the mechanical speedo, the trans mount can be adapted very easily with a small piece of steel plate that bolts or is welded to the factory crossmember.
as far as the tq arm mount im going to make my own of the crossmember , u can weld so u should be able to do both urself withotu having to spend 100-140bucks on the 700r4 to th350 adapter kit for the mount and tq arm
01-23-2015, 05:51 AM
#9
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
I have found those spacers for the 700r tail on a th350. There about 100 bucks. But from what I was told is that the output shaft on the th350 and 7004 are not the exact same. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
I'm going to pick up a th350 monday after work. Tci reverse man valve body rebuilt a season and a half ago..exc. since I have plenty of spare 700rs laying arround I guess I can just take the tails off and see if it will work.
I'd much rather buy the spacer and retain all my stock mounting points and vss.
I'm going to pick up a th350 monday after work. Tci reverse man valve body rebuilt a season and a half ago..exc. since I have plenty of spare 700rs laying arround I guess I can just take the tails off and see if it will work.
I'd much rather buy the spacer and retain all my stock mounting points and vss.
01-23-2015, 06:29 AM
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
This Rbob? http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Spe...eedometer.html
Here is probably a dumb question but for my 7730 the vss has to be (number 1 on the pics) 4000ppm? The reason I ask is because the (number 2 on the pics) 2000ppm is much shorter. Also im not sure if the threads on the cable hook up on the TH350 is metric but I would think its std but I could be wrong.
Thanks so much for the help though. Its amazing how hard it is to find definite info on that part of the swap.
Dakota also sells a part that sends out a 8k ppm signal. I question how high I can turn up my PPM on my bin file.
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...109/prd109.htm
With a 8k ppm signal..... if the ecm would accept it with my modification to the bin.... wouldn't the stock speed do go nuts? It requires a 2k ppm correct? That is a output that can not be changed. The ecm takes in 4k and sends 2k out to the speedo without any option for calibration via tuning.
Here is probably a dumb question but for my 7730 the vss has to be (number 1 on the pics) 4000ppm? The reason I ask is because the (number 2 on the pics) 2000ppm is much shorter. Also im not sure if the threads on the cable hook up on the TH350 is metric but I would think its std but I could be wrong.
Thanks so much for the help though. Its amazing how hard it is to find definite info on that part of the swap.
Dakota also sells a part that sends out a 8k ppm signal. I question how high I can turn up my PPM on my bin file.
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...109/prd109.htm
With a 8k ppm signal..... if the ecm would accept it with my modification to the bin.... wouldn't the stock speed do go nuts? It requires a 2k ppm correct? That is a output that can not be changed. The ecm takes in 4k and sends 2k out to the speedo without any option for calibration via tuning.
2. A four-pulse (4000 pulses per mile) sine-wave (A.C. current or alternating current) signal is required by the 1990–1993 TPI, 1992–1993 LT1 engines, and 1990–1993 Camaro 3.1/3.4 V6 engines.
Electrically it is a drop in replacement for the stock VSS.
The speedometer gets a 4K PPM digital pulse stream. This comes from the ECM after it buffers and converts the magnetic sine wave from the VSS to a digital pulse stream.
The 8K PPM VSS won't work unless you add in another box to divide it by two, then feed it to the ECM. Otherwise the speedometer will show twice as high as the true vehicle MPH.
For the nitty-gritty of it all, this is how the '7730/'7749 ECM hardware works when using the magnetic VSS input:
The ECM buffers the magnetic input with a zero-crossing detector and converts the signal to a digital pulse stream. This will be at the same frequency (PPM) as the input signal from the VSS.
This digital signal is sent to two different areas of the ECM hardware.
One area is the ECM hardware counters for the firmware to read and convert to a MPH reading. The PPM divisor value in the firmware calibration can be changed to get an accurate reading. Note that this MPH value is ONLY for the ECM's MPH value.
The other area the digital VSS digital pulse stream goes is to a hardware divider. The output of this divider is several digital pulse streams that get sent to the speedometer (4K PPM) and the cruise control (2K PPM).
This divider can be set for a divide by 0, 1, then from 6 through 11. In our cars it is set to divide by 1. Without being able to divide by 2 an 8K PPM VSS can't really be used, the speedometer reading will be wrong.
If you could use a toothed wheel on the output shaft, as GM did in other cars that used the '7730 ECM, such as at 24K PPM, the hardware divisor can be set to divide by 6 and the speedometer reads correctly.
Then change the firmware VSS divisor to get the ECM's MPH value correct.
RBob.
01-24-2015, 03:53 PM
#11
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
My friend used one of these but a 2k ppm version for his 89 bird when he did a swap. Looks like this would work also for the vss signal?
http://www.tpiparts.net/inc/sdetail/7587
http://www.tpiparts.net/inc/sdetail/7587
01-24-2015, 11:04 PM
#12
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
Eddie, I have that exact same bracket as the Hurst made by B&M, there is an adapter to move the trans mount forward as well. T350 mount doesn't line up with the crossmember on a V8 IDK about the V6. Had a T350 in my car when I first got it and went back to the 700. $50 plus the ride and it's yours. I paid $180 .
01-25-2015, 08:19 AM
#13
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
My friend used one of these but a 2k ppm version for his 89 bird when he did a swap. Looks like this would work also for the vss signal?
http://www.tpiparts.net/inc/sdetail/7587
http://www.tpiparts.net/inc/sdetail/7587
RBob.
01-25-2015, 10:10 AM
#14
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
I have found those spacers for the 700r tail on a th350. There about 100 bucks. But from what I was told is that the output shaft on the th350 and 7004 are not the exact same. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
I'm going to pick up a th350 monday after work. Tci reverse man valve body rebuilt a season and a half ago..exc. since I have plenty of spare 700rs laying arround I guess I can just take the tails off and see if it will work.
I'd much rather buy the spacer and retain all my stock mounting points and vss.
I'm going to pick up a th350 monday after work. Tci reverse man valve body rebuilt a season and a half ago..exc. since I have plenty of spare 700rs laying arround I guess I can just take the tails off and see if it will work.
I'd much rather buy the spacer and retain all my stock mounting points and vss.
Using a 9 tail output th350 and using a spacer plus the 700R4 tail gives you a 700-R4 length TH350 with stock torque arm and driveline length.
If you had a 6inch tail th350 and 700-R4 tailhousing and 82-83 longer torque arm and driveline, that would work too.
The shorter TH350 can be rebuilt with longer output shaft.
It's all what service and parts acqusition you can get done first.
I am not sure but I would check with a builder to see if TH350 gears can be put in a 700R4 for the tighter 1-3 and keep OD.
Last edited by jmd; 02-03-2015 at 08:47 PM.
01-26-2015, 04:55 PM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
Well i got a trans today. TH350 with a 9 inch tail. TCI reverse manual VB, not too long since its been rebuilt, and a nice pan on it. Here's some pics.
I already have a shifter for it and also the adapter plate for the 60 degree V6 to a Th350.
Rbob I will look into the VSS reference between the V6 and V8. The ecm is the same minus the mask, bin...exc.
As for the x member and Tq arm, Im pretty good at fabrication and a friend/member on here did the swap 2 year ago on a high 11 sec fbird. He made his own and I checked it out over the weekend. I feel that it wont be hard at all to fabricate the tq arm and x member to fit the th350.
Im excited to see how this all comes together. It should be a fun year at the track if all goes as planned.
I already have a shifter for it and also the adapter plate for the 60 degree V6 to a Th350.
Rbob I will look into the VSS reference between the V6 and V8. The ecm is the same minus the mask, bin...exc.
As for the x member and Tq arm, Im pretty good at fabrication and a friend/member on here did the swap 2 year ago on a high 11 sec fbird. He made his own and I checked it out over the weekend. I feel that it wont be hard at all to fabricate the tq arm and x member to fit the th350.
Im excited to see how this all comes together. It should be a fun year at the track if all goes as planned.
Last edited by fasteddi; 01-26-2015 at 04:59 PM.
01-26-2015, 05:02 PM
#16
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
Just checked Rbob and the VSS sensor on a V8 is the same as a V6 for the 1990-1992 years.
01-29-2015, 03:23 PM
#17
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
Well i got the vss converter for the trans. Problem is on the trans they tossed a freeze plug in there. I took that off and it was quite empty in there.... now i have to figure out what i need to make this work. Any tips on what to look for in there is greatly appreciated!
Last edited by fasteddi; 01-29-2015 at 04:16 PM.
01-30-2015, 07:45 AM
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
It'll look similar to this (see pic). This is the drive gear (green) retained on the output shaft via the spring clip. The 'bullet' that is threaded on the end for the cable attachment, retained by the clip & bolt.
The driven gear (gray) is inserted into the bullet and engages the drive gear at one end, and has a square opening for the speedo-cable on the other end. There is also an o-ring to seal the bullet to the case, and a lip seal to seal the driven gear to the bullet.
Note that these parts should always be in place, even when not used. They spray ATF to the driveshaft yoke & bushing for lubricant.
RBob.
The driven gear (gray) is inserted into the bullet and engages the drive gear at one end, and has a square opening for the speedo-cable on the other end. There is also an o-ring to seal the bullet to the case, and a lip seal to seal the driven gear to the bullet.
Note that these parts should always be in place, even when not used. They spray ATF to the driveshaft yoke & bushing for lubricant.
RBob.
01-30-2015, 08:41 AM
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
i would keep the 700, i regret changing mine every time i go any where. they can build you stock trans pretty stout these days and you keep overdrive. i get to listen to 3000+rpm and 12 mpg all the time to remind me.
01-30-2015, 11:04 AM
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
It'll look similar to this (see pic). This is the drive gear (green) retained on the output shaft via the spring clip. The 'bullet' that is threaded on the end for the cable attachment, retained by the clip & bolt.
The driven gear (gray) is inserted into the bullet and engages the drive gear at one end, and has a square opening for the speedo-cable on the other end. There is also an o-ring to seal the bullet to the case, and a lip seal to seal the driven gear to the bullet.
Note that these parts should always be in place, even when not used. They spray ATF to the driveshaft yoke & bushing for lubricant.
RBob.
The driven gear (gray) is inserted into the bullet and engages the drive gear at one end, and has a square opening for the speedo-cable on the other end. There is also an o-ring to seal the bullet to the case, and a lip seal to seal the driven gear to the bullet.
Note that these parts should always be in place, even when not used. They spray ATF to the driveshaft yoke & bushing for lubricant.
RBob.
02-01-2015, 09:44 AM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
When the tail is off here is whats in there. What is all needed for the original speedo set up so i can screw on the converter for vss just like a mechanical speedo cable? Thanks
02-01-2015, 12:54 PM
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
02-02-2015, 06:50 AM
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
02-02-2015, 03:06 PM
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
02-02-2015, 05:11 PM
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
Im just linking pics here so i understand what all i need. Dave let me know what ya find. Thanks man.
Basically everything in this picture? Im new with trans so I want to make sure I know all the parts Ill need.
If i calculate the drive and driven gears for the car with the street tires.. and I use a 7 tooth drive gear I get a 21 tooth driven gear. Thats with the 3.73 rear end I have.
Basically everything in this picture? Im new with trans so I want to make sure I know all the parts Ill need.
If i calculate the drive and driven gears for the car with the street tires.. and I use a 7 tooth drive gear I get a 21 tooth driven gear. Thats with the 3.73 rear end I have.
02-02-2015, 05:33 PM
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
thats exactly what u need i dont have the proper gears for ya ive got 273's and 3:73's, but i do have all the other hardware if u cant buy it all as a package deal. u can pick up gears on ebay for a few bucks
02-02-2015, 06:01 PM
#27
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
That pic was a package on ebay. 68 bucks shipped.What ya think?
02-02-2015, 06:55 PM
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
Ya haven't pulled the trigger on it yet? It is a complete kit, as long as you can get the drive and driven gears in the proper tooth count, and check the sellers feed back (even maybe a google on the seller). Then if OK buy it, it's all there.
RBob.
RBob.
02-03-2015, 02:44 AM
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
i just relized u have 3:73's lol was still thinking 3:42's for some reason
let me get a picture of everything tommorow for ya i can beat that price by a bunch for ya , unless ya rather just get all new stuff
let me get a picture of everything tommorow for ya i can beat that price by a bunch for ya , unless ya rather just get all new stuff
02-03-2015, 05:49 AM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
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Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
I haven't pulled the trigger on that kit yet. They do offer the gears I'd need.
Dave if you have all that stuff I'd rather save a few bucks. If not it's no biggie. Let me know.
Dave if you have all that stuff I'd rather save a few bucks. If not it's no biggie. Let me know.
02-03-2015, 09:09 AM
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
sure heading out to the shop in about an hour , when i get home ill post up a picture for ya and pm a price
02-03-2015, 03:22 PM
#32
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
Thanks dave.
Got the converter today. Freakshow 3500 stall.
Hopefully the dual bolt pattern is not sticking up too much. Looks like i may need to trim a tad or the starter gear will hit..... Looks pretty easy to mount the adapter plate though. Thank god speedway makes those things.
Got the converter today. Freakshow 3500 stall.
Hopefully the dual bolt pattern is not sticking up too much. Looks like i may need to trim a tad or the starter gear will hit..... Looks pretty easy to mount the adapter plate though. Thank god speedway makes those things.
Last edited by fasteddi; 02-03-2015 at 04:09 PM.
02-03-2015, 06:53 PM
#33
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
make sure u trim it evenly the converter is balanced so u dont wanna throw the balance off , mark each one the same and grind them the same amount
also i broke the drive gear getting it off the shaft , so just order that full kit ,
also i broke the drive gear getting it off the shaft , so just order that full kit ,
02-04-2015, 03:19 PM
#34
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
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Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
I ordered that kit.
Taking out the 700 on sunday and mabey get into some fabrication.
This is just a thought but there is alot of meat on that dual pattern bolt pattern on this converter. Would drilling out a new hole and tapping it be a bad idea so that I dont have to oblong the holes on the flexplate? Or would that be too many holes on that converter? On the pic above it would be on the left of the inner pattern hole.
Taking out the 700 on sunday and mabey get into some fabrication.
This is just a thought but there is alot of meat on that dual pattern bolt pattern on this converter. Would drilling out a new hole and tapping it be a bad idea so that I dont have to oblong the holes on the flexplate? Or would that be too many holes on that converter? On the pic above it would be on the left of the inner pattern hole.
Last edited by fasteddi; 02-04-2015 at 03:33 PM.
02-05-2015, 08:46 AM
#35
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
just slot the holes on the flex plate
02-09-2015, 07:46 AM
#36
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
Got some work done sunday.
Question...what dipstick are you th350 swap ppl using. The old 700r4 looks like it would work with a differegrommet so the seal I tight. Ideas?
Question...what dipstick are you th350 swap ppl using. The old 700r4 looks like it would work with a differegrommet so the seal I tight. Ideas?
02-09-2015, 05:00 PM
#37
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
Update to this thread:
Here are some pics. I ground down the areas for the bolts from the plate to the block, also slotted the flywheel for the bolts for the TC. I got my gears and such for the speedo housing. Got it all installed. Tossed on the Vss 4k ppm to make sure it fits....and it does like a glove.
I need to still do a bit more but I made alot of progress in 4 hrs including tearing out that ole 700r4.
I still need to get some grade 8 bolts for the plate to the new trans and from the flexplate to the converter, but else then that its just a bit of fabrication and i can toss it in.
Here are some pics. I ground down the areas for the bolts from the plate to the block, also slotted the flywheel for the bolts for the TC. I got my gears and such for the speedo housing. Got it all installed. Tossed on the Vss 4k ppm to make sure it fits....and it does like a glove.
I need to still do a bit more but I made alot of progress in 4 hrs including tearing out that ole 700r4.
I still need to get some grade 8 bolts for the plate to the new trans and from the flexplate to the converter, but else then that its just a bit of fabrication and i can toss it in.
02-09-2015, 05:39 PM
#38
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
ur going to have to start working on suspension now , lcarbs subframe connectors and i bet ur going to need a 6pt bar soon
02-10-2015, 03:15 PM
#39
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
dave i definitely will have to work on that soon.
Im not sure how much better this car will make it down the track with this trans but as long as it as fast as it was before and consistent ill be happy. Although I think that stall will really help me consistently get those 1.6x 60 foot times that were so hard to consistently get before.
Im not sure how much better this car will make it down the track with this trans but as long as it as fast as it was before and consistent ill be happy. Although I think that stall will really help me consistently get those 1.6x 60 foot times that were so hard to consistently get before.
02-11-2015, 11:37 AM
#40
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
the th350 will eat up less power so u will make more power to the tires and now with a converter that wont slip 50% ur really going to start shaving time of ur et.
not to mention the much better 1st to 2nd gear split
what shifter are u using for the swap?
not to mention the much better 1st to 2nd gear split
what shifter are u using for the swap?
02-11-2015, 03:15 PM
#41
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
I got a B&M rachet megashifter (the 3rd gen style one). It'll have to do for now, i got it for next to nothing off a friend. And if i can set that thing up right it would do well for playing arround on the streets here and there.
the prevous converter only slipped 21%.... god that is horrid though!
the prevous converter only slipped 21%.... god that is horrid though!
02-11-2015, 09:56 PM
#42
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
i need to play catchup now , my trans is still in a million pieces
maybe this weekend ill get some of the th350 assembled
maybe this weekend ill get some of the th350 assembled
02-18-2015, 07:46 AM
#43
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, 355" LT1, LT1
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Axle/Gears: 3.42, Dana44 3.45, 3.23
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
I'm thinking about going e-trans for the 2016 season. The TH350 I'm doing up right now will be ok for this year, but if I can get something that shifts properly part-throttle under boost (vac modulator = the suck), and something that I can have electronic WOT shift points for track use I think it's gonna be a kick *** car.
-- Joe
02-18-2015, 10:02 AM
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
I got a B&M rachet megashifter (the 3rd gen style one). It'll have to do for now, i got it for next to nothing off a friend. And if i can set that thing up right it would do well for playing arround on the streets here and there.
the prevous converter only slipped 21%.... god that is horrid though!
the prevous converter only slipped 21%.... god that is horrid though!
Wonder if I should just leave the 98+ converter in there with the carbon clutch once I rebuild the 700. Parts are on the way finally.
Though the current trans slips so much I probably couldn't even figure out how much slip this converter has. Its a 2500 stall as well. Sure does slingshot real good though.
Already got lcarbs in mine and I LOVE the difference. Also dropping down to 2.73s in the rear from the stock 3.43s. I figure that shouldnt be too bad with the turbo making the torque down low.
Last edited by willexoIX; 02-18-2015 at 10:05 AM.
02-18-2015, 03:04 PM
#45
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Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
ive goten everything washed and the case power washed, we have to take care of the crate engine install into my friends grandfathers truck this comming weekend , and then after that he will have the time to assemble the trans for me. i could do it but he has alot more trans building experience then i do. all the dodge diesel guys goto him for there rebuilds. and he does a bunch of others as well.
btw anychanc eu know which is the right part number for that valve body so i can download the instructions for it?
btw anychanc eu know which is the right part number for that valve body so i can download the instructions for it?
02-19-2015, 03:23 PM
#46
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
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Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
So thats what I get to look forward to, lol.
Wonder if I should just leave the 98+ converter in there with the carbon clutch once I rebuild the 700. Parts are on the way finally.
Though the current trans slips so much I probably couldn't even figure out how much slip this converter has. Its a 2500 stall as well. Sure does slingshot real good though.
Already got lcarbs in mine and I LOVE the difference. Also dropping down to 2.73s in the rear from the stock 3.43s. I figure that shouldnt be too bad with the turbo making the torque down low.
Wonder if I should just leave the 98+ converter in there with the carbon clutch once I rebuild the 700. Parts are on the way finally.
Though the current trans slips so much I probably couldn't even figure out how much slip this converter has. Its a 2500 stall as well. Sure does slingshot real good though.
Already got lcarbs in mine and I LOVE the difference. Also dropping down to 2.73s in the rear from the stock 3.43s. I figure that shouldnt be too bad with the turbo making the torque down low.
When I ran those mid 12 second passes the HD61 converter only slipped about 9%, which isnt too bad for a cheep converter. But when I turned up the boost 1 psi and finally got to launch it hard and went those 11 second passes.... it slipped terribly. It just wasnt meant for 400 ft tq...
If it would get above 0 degrees out sometime. Id like to toss that puppy in the car. Mabey on sunday if im lucky.
02-19-2015, 03:55 PM
#47
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Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
When I ran those mid 12 second passes the HD61 converter only slipped about 9%, which isnt too bad for a cheep converter. But when I turned up the boost 1 psi and finally got to launch it hard and went those 11 second passes.... it slipped terribly. It just wasnt meant for 400 ft tq...
If it would get above 0 degrees out sometime. Id like to toss that puppy in the car. Mabey on sunday if im lucky.
If it would get above 0 degrees out sometime. Id like to toss that puppy in the car. Mabey on sunday if im lucky.
on more thing goes wrong with this pos im just putting the silverado back on the road since i can afford to drive it again with gas being 1.95-2.12
02-19-2015, 04:08 PM
#48
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
Its about -3 outside right now. I think the low is suppose to get to arround -10 tonight! Yea another freezing cold winter here in ohio.
02-23-2015, 04:25 PM
#49
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
Update the trans is in. Went well.
Those top two bolts on the housing will be fun to tighten down. They are alot more tighter then the V6!! I tacked the bolts heads on those to the adapter plate so the trans easily slid right on there. I tossed it in myself on my gravel garage floor...fun!
I still have to tighten up those top bolts, tighten down the TC, get the trq bar mount on(i got a used b&m adapter for 45 bucks shipped) and then just little things. But its too cold out to do that stuff right now. Im just happy the trans fit right up in there, the flex plate went on with the TC pilot adapter fine, and the trans mount adapter to shift it forward 1 5/8th of a inch worked. Although there was some extra adjustment i could have gotten out of the single bolt on the bottom of the trans mount to the x over.
Those top two bolts on the housing will be fun to tighten down. They are alot more tighter then the V6!! I tacked the bolts heads on those to the adapter plate so the trans easily slid right on there. I tossed it in myself on my gravel garage floor...fun!
I still have to tighten up those top bolts, tighten down the TC, get the trq bar mount on(i got a used b&m adapter for 45 bucks shipped) and then just little things. But its too cold out to do that stuff right now. Im just happy the trans fit right up in there, the flex plate went on with the TC pilot adapter fine, and the trans mount adapter to shift it forward 1 5/8th of a inch worked. Although there was some extra adjustment i could have gotten out of the single bolt on the bottom of the trans mount to the x over.
03-09-2015, 05:44 AM
#50
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: TH350 swap in a Turbo V6
It was finally above freezing so I got some work done with the car. I started it up on stands and everything went pretty good.
I now have poly mounts for the trans. I noticed it has some vibrations now at low rpm mainly idle. Rev it up a bit and it's smooth. It's nothing terrible but it is noticable. Is that normal for poly trans mounts?
I didn't get the shifter hooked up right. It's a megashifter. For some reason the cable adjustment is killing me and I can't get the park and 1st...reverse valve body...to sync up correctly.
But else then that it seems to be good to go until I can get it back out on the road and test it some more.
I now have poly mounts for the trans. I noticed it has some vibrations now at low rpm mainly idle. Rev it up a bit and it's smooth. It's nothing terrible but it is noticable. Is that normal for poly trans mounts?
I didn't get the shifter hooked up right. It's a megashifter. For some reason the cable adjustment is killing me and I can't get the park and 1st...reverse valve body...to sync up correctly.
But else then that it seems to be good to go until I can get it back out on the road and test it some more.
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