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Purchased Vern's Formula last Friday. Has a Ford 9" that he said parts should be for a 95-96 Exploder. Thing is this is a sealed rear with no pumpkin cover. Looking up the dif on AZ and Oreilly they list a pumpkin cover. So that can't be the right vehicle.
He purchased the rear off someone else so.... Yea there really isn't any telling.
The disk brakes should interchange with the same exploder he said.
The problem is the backer plates on both sides have fresh grease/oil on them. The car has been sitting since 2011. So I'm assuming it's the axle shaft seals. The idea is to get the parts then take the bird to Venus from Arlington where my fiance's dad has a 12 ton press so I can actually change the bearings etc out on the shafts. Also if the parts we get aren't correct it can be kept inside the shop while the axles are out of it vs sitting on the driveway here at our house in Arlington.
Are there identification numbers on the rear somewhere to be able to use to find out what parts to get? I've never done anything with a rear end before so this will be a first.
I've attached a image of the drivers side backer plate (the plate behind the brakes) The passenger side is pretty much the same just not as wet.
Also if the fluid is low (Haven't gotten it in the air yet to check if there is even an inspection port) would the low fluid cause a shifting feeling in the drivetrain (hard to explain the exact feeling other then it somewhat feels like a shot trans mount). From what I can tell by looking under the side of the car though the trans mount is ok. It also has boxed lca's and an adjustable torque arm. Could possibly be some worn bushings or loose bolts on either of those.
As I said I haven't gotten it on stands yet to check out under the car fully. Been sorting out light issues etc to pass safety so I can change the title over. Then everything else will follow.
Also what is a good gear oil to use for city and highway use? Synthetic or not synthetic? Weight? Should I buy a gallon or a couple of the smaller bottles? Don't plan on taking it to the track. At least not any time soon.
9" is a 9". Could even be an 8" passed off as a 9" if you don't know how to tell them apart.
There are a number of different axle ends and seals/bearings/axle size will usually be different.
First thing you need to do is find out which axle end is on the tube. The most common is Big Ford, Small Ford and Torino. Torino is very similar to Explorer ends.
Start with this link. Follow the links at the bottom of this one for even more information.
Explorers didn't get 9 inch rear ends. They got the 8.8, which is a completely different rear end. It probably has Explorer disc brakes on it. That's a popular swap. You have a 9 inch, which probably started out in a F150.
It's most likely the big bearing. You could have the sealed ball bearing or the tapered roller bearing. You need to know which one it is. The ball bearing has a seal inside the housing end on the inner side of the bearing. This is easy to change. It's possible that it was left out completely. If you have the tapered roller bearing then the seal will be on the outside, on the outer side of the bearing. This is a lot harder to change and also requires changing the bearing. You want to be very careful not to damage this seal because if you do you will have to buy another new bearing to replace it.
When you get a little farther into it let us know what you find. Most of the time I use the sealed ball bearing with the inner seal. I just tell the parts guy that it's for a '79 F150.
Explorers didn't get 9 inch rear ends. They got the 8.8, which is a completely different rear end. It probably has Explorer disc brakes on it. That's a popular swap. You have a 9 inch, which probably started out in a F150.
It's most likely the big bearing. You could have the sealed ball bearing or the tapered roller bearing. You need to know which one it is. The ball bearing has a seal inside the housing end on the inner side of the bearing. This is easy to change. It's possible that it was left out completely. If you have the tapered roller bearing then the seal will be on the outside, on the outer side of the bearing. This is a lot harder to change and also requires changing the bearing. You want to be very careful not to damage this seal because if you do you will have to buy another new bearing to replace it.
When you get a little farther into it let us know what you find. Most of the time I use the sealed ball bearing with the inner seal. I just tell the parts guy that it's for a '79 F150.
Is there no stamped numbers or anything on the rear housing that could help track down what rear it is? I say this since the idea is to get the parts then drive to where we can "get into it". Ideally not having to go back out and get different parts for it.
My guess though is it won't work out that way. I watched a youtube video about the tapered bearing version. Which the 4 bolts that hold the axle in are removed and the axle just pulls out. The guy who made the video stated if it is the one piece with bearing and seal then you have to use an axle puller to get it out of the housing after removing the 4 bolts. Not sure if that is correct or not.
79 f150 sounds more like what the guy in the video referenced as his 9". It also looked very similar to the one I have. I should just get it up on stands or back it on the ramps and take more photos of it. Maybe someone will recognize it.
Also any tips for adjusting the e-brake? If you just pull it up to where you would normally it doesn't hold the car. You really have to pull back on it to get it to hold. I for one don't like this and don't think it should be this way.
UPDATE
After looking at AlkyIROC's link he shared and reading through the first half I apparently need to get under it to find out the casting number on the (what is called the case I found out after that link). What stinks is the link is riddled with broken images. :-( heading into the Housings and Bearings section of the above link. That seems like it will at least narrow things down a bit.
Went out with a flashlight. It is in fact a 9" pumpkin is round not oval and has the protrusion in the center. There also isn't any dimples or a fill plug in the backside. It also appears to have tapered tube. Saying the tubes on either side of the main pumpkin are smaller diameter then the tubes that are part of the main center section of the rear end.
Ok so this narrows down the bearings somewhat:
"For the nine inch there are are two bearing sizes used for housing ends. However, for the nine inch (as assembled by Ford)there are 3 different bearings- one small and two large. The two large are the same size ( I.D. / O.D specs), but different types of bearings- one is the traditional sealed ball bearing, while the other is the oil bathed roller bearing and race type.The eight inch and most nine inch housings used the small bearing- including the 31 spline CJ cars, Mustang Hi-performance etc.. This bearing was of the sealed ball bearing type, # RW207CCRA (specs: 1.378" I.D., 2.8246" O.D. by 0.8449" width). Early Galaxies and Broncos and some mid 70's Torinos used the large type sealed ball bearing, which meant they had a large tube housing end, bearing # 88128-RA (specs: 1.5312" I.D., 3.1496" O.D. by width). The second type of large bearing (roller type) was used in later pickups and larger Ford cars, bearing # A20 (specs. 1.530" I.D., 3.1530" O.D.), the seal was on outside of bearing."
So is that saying it won't be the large bearings since the tubes are smaller and this (# RW207CCRA) is the bearing I would need? Maybe I'm trying to input too much info too late at night.
A little more reading and there may be a identification plate bolted onto the rear end. That could lead to what vehicle it is actually from. That should simplify getting parts. Since the only thing I have noticed so far is the above bearing number. That's saying I'm understanding things right and I do in fact have the smaller bearings and in fact the tapered tubes mean smaller bearings like I think I was understanding above.
What is a good gear oil to use for city and highway use? Synthetic or not synthetic? Weight? Should I buy a gallon or a couple of the smaller bottles? Don't plan on taking it to the track. At least not any time soon.
If I remember correctly there are brackets welded to the axle to attach the torque arm. Looks like aftermarket work. Not the rear end being aftermarket. Already went through those links from the 2nd post. With Kevinstang leading to the ratechmfg. According to Kevinstang it's the small bearings since the tubes taper down smaller from the central part of the axle. Which leaves me with one bearing choice if I'm not missunderstanding the info. The only seal that shows up from the ratechmfg site is the 4th one under the small bearing setup. 9568 None of the others are pulling up seals. At least at Oreilly.
Gotta take it a half mile down the road and get the safety inspection done then I'll work on getting it in the air to take photos. Hopefully it won't be raining or I won't be getting it in the air. LOL
Ford did not stamp numbers or codes on the housing. They only used tags, which usually got tossed in the trash the first time the center chunk was removed.
There isn't much that any of us can do until you get some pictures of the housing and the ends. If I understand you correctly you have the large housing with the tapered center. All of those housings use the large bearings. As far as I know all of the after market housings also use the large bearings.
You can use the tapered roller bearing or the sealed ball bearing. They are interchangeable. I prefer the ball bearing in most cases because the seal is easier to service. The tapered roller is better for auto cross and road racing because it handles side loads better.
Ford did not stamp numbers or codes on the housing. They only used tags, which usually got tossed in the trash the first time the center chunk was removed.
There isn't much that any of us can do until you get some pictures of the housing and the ends. If I understand you correctly you have the large housing with the tapered center. All of those housings use the large bearings. As far as I know all of the after market housings also use the large bearings.
You can use the tapered roller bearing or the sealed ball bearing. They are interchangeable. I prefer the ball bearing in most cases because the seal is easier to service. The tapered roller is better for auto cross and road racing because it handles side loads better.
Large center with tapered tubes. According to the guide that indicates the small bearing. Unless what I'm thinking is the taper as seen below isn't the same taper the guide is talking about. The diameter of the tubes is smaller then the main center as seen below.
Drivers side
Passenger Side
Hopefully the rain will let up so I can get it in the air and take photos of the case and axle ends.
Looks like a Moser 9 inch housing. It will have the big bearings.
The tapered tubes that you are talking about is not the same as the tapered center that you have. The Mustang, Fairlane and other car rear ends from the '60s had 3 inch tubes coming out of the center and then tapered down to around 2 5/8 near the end of the tube where the bearing is. These are the housings that used the small axle bearings.
Looks like a Moser 9 inch housing. It will have the big bearings.
The tapered tubes that you are talking about is not the same as the tapered center that you have. The Mustang, Fairlane and other car rear ends from the '60s had 3 inch tubes coming out of the center and then tapered down to around 2 5/8 near the end of the tube where the bearing is. These are the housings that used the small axle bearings.
So now it's a matter of which large bearing is actually on the shaft?
Now that you mention Moser doing a google search yields this
Sure does look the same down to the welded on mounting brackets on the driver side. Funny thing is they don't list parts for it. At least not at Spohn where the rear is made specifically for our cars. :-(
Have an email into Moser trying to find out info.
Now could low gear oil cause a jerky/clunkyness?
IE: Driving in 6th gear at 70mph on the tollway letting off the gas then getting back into it you can feel a shifting in the drivetrain. It does this at any speed but I think the highway is the best way to explain it. LOL Could be any number of things like worn bushings in the torque arm, lca's, trans mount on the t-56. But I think those are all poly and just looking at what I can see of them they all look fine. Which leads me to the leaking rear seals. If there isn't enough fluid to fill in between gears etc could there be slack causing what I'm attempting to describe?
What type of differential is in the rear? If it's a locker, you will notice a clunk when it un-locks, usually when turning but you might notice it when you un-load the drivetrain as in when decelerating. This has nothing to do with bearing size or application but will determine what type gear lube and weight you should use. Doesn't the po have all this info for you?
If it is a clutch type posi unit, low oil level could allow the clutches to dry out and stick, causing this feeling. You might need to put an additive in with the gear lube for the clutches to work properly. Don't know what you have but GM posis require an additive.
Def, a Moser 9" rear. The older ones have a special sealed bearing that's not available at a parts store due to a custom size axle shaft. (it will still use the correct ford inner seal)
You will have to pull a axle and do some measuring to get the correct setup 4 that rear.
If it is a clutch type posi unit, low oil level could allow the clutches to dry out and stick, causing this feeling. You might need to put an additive in with the gear lube for the clutches to work properly. Don't know what you have but GM posis require an additive.
As my original post states. The previous owner thought any parts for it would reference a 95-96 Exploder. Which obviously isn't the case. He was sure that the brakes would interchange with a 95-96 Exploder though.
Sounds like I'm going to need to pull the driveshaft then take the casing out to find out what unit is on the inside. I'm just going to assume the axle shafts have to be out at the same time and first before you can pull the case out the front of the housing since the shafts slide into the main center case? I could be wrong here as I've never had to tear into a rear end before.
I'll shoot the previous owner a message and see if he might know what type of unit is in it. I know that it has 4.11 gears for the miniram/383 combo.
Def, a Moser 9" rear. The older ones have a special sealed bearing that's not available at a parts store due to a custom size axle shaft. (it will still use the correct ford inner seal)
You will have to pull a axle and do some measuring to get the correct setup 4 that rear.
Well shot a email off to Moser this afternoon and Brian Miles got back with me about 1:30pm with the following information even with sending the pictures I posted in this thread:
"If it has big ford bearings which I have to assume it does then you can pick up seals and bearings locally. Some reference number for the bearing would be 88182RA and the reference number for the inner seal would be CR 15142"
I asked him if the dif had and identifying stamps or anything to in fact show that it was a Moser since he didn't outright say it was and this is his response:
"Unfortunately there is not. The axles could have a our Moser end cap stickers but that would be the only identifying marks for the stamped 9” housing."
Sure as heck looks just like the one at Spohn (http://www.spohn.net/shop/Rear-End-D...-Complete.html) made specifically for the 82-92 f-body if you ask me down to the welded on mounting points and spring seats on the top of the axle tubes.
So I guess I'll pull a wheel off tomorrow if I don't get to doing anything else and see if their sticker is on the hub.
If I owned a company I would be stamping the damn things with my name on them. Cars have badges don't they? Hell cheap alternators from AZ have manufacturers on them. You would think aftermarket rear ends would. lol
Get axle bearings and seals for a '79 F150. If you go into Auto Zone or some other chain auto parts store the first thing they are going to ask you is what you are working on. If you tell them it's a Camaro and then ask for axle seals for a 9 inch Ford they are going to give you a dumb look. Just tell them it's a '79 F150 with a 9 inch rear end and you will get the right parts.
Moser uses Green Bearings which have a o ring on the outside. They don't send axle seals with the rear end, so most people don't use them. I'd bet that whoever put this rear end together didn't install axle seals and the o rings are leaking. I never install the axles without getting axle seals first, just because this is exactly what happens if you don't.
Last edited by big gear head; 04-29-2015 at 07:17 AM.
The 9" moser axles in my car are old and take the goofy failure prone "green bearing company" bearing.
I need to update my axles to the newer style with the cheaper locally avaliable bearings.
Get axle bearings and seals for a '79 F150. If you go into Auto Zone or some other chain auto parts store the first thing they are going to ask you is what you are working on. If you tell them it's a Camaro and then ask for axle seals for a 9 inch Ford they are going to give you a dumb look. Just tell them it's a '79 F150 with a 9 inch rear end and you will get the right parts.
Moser uses Green Bearings which have a o ring on the outside. They don't send axle seals with the rear end, so most people don't use them. I'd bet that whoever put this rear end together didn't install axle seals and the o rings are leaking. I never install the axles without getting axle seals first, just because this is exactly what happens if you don't.
What motor are you telling them with the 79? There are like 10 motor combinations at Oreilly. LOL Because of that I'm sure different rears were used between some of them.
As far as I know from about '57 to somewhere in the '80s all of the F100s and F150s used the 9 inch rear end. Some of them had 28 spline axles and some had 31 spline axles. Some had the regular gray iron case and some had the nodular iron case. Some had the standard pinion housing and some had the Daytona pinion housing. Some had the small center housing and some had the tapered center housing. Some had sealed ball axle bearings and some had tapered roller axle bearings. As far as I know all were 9 inch.
I just picked '79 off the top of my head because I'm pretty sure that all of them had the large axle bearings. I think some of the '50s and early '60s F100s might have had the small axle bearings.
Last edited by big gear head; 04-30-2015 at 07:13 AM.
Brian at Moser just confirmed the axle shafts are in fact Moser. He said they were about 10 years old by the date stamp on them. I did pull the inspection plug and had to use a qtip at an angle to see if I could pull out any grease. All I got on the tip was grease from touching gears etc inside the case.
I don't believe it was driven much with leaking seals though since it's been parked for 4 years. Which is probably what caused the leak in the first place. Before I purchased it the original owners son would drive it in the neighborhood on occasion. Then I drove it about 30-40 miles to our house. Then again about 1 mile round trip yesterday to the inspection place down the road. So I don't think 50 miles hurt anything.
I don't think I need to worry about taking pictures of the case. Not that there is much room on an f-body to do this anyway with the torque arm, driveshaft, and exhaust in the way. lol
I did notice that the only plug on the rear was the inspection (which has to be fill also) port on the drives side. I felt around up top of the main housing and all over the case and didn't feel anything hidden in the ribs. So you must have to take the case loose to drain and fill and inspect in that same port.
Sprayed the rear down with degreaser then hosed it all off. After sitting for about 30 minutes to dry. I pumped some 80/90 into it and started changing the oil. Later I noticed some fluid on the backing plate. So I wiped it off with a paper towel and checked it like 15-20 minutes later. Seems to be a pretty good leak with it just sitting up on ramps and jack stands. Passenger side doesn't have anything
Sure wish it was as clean as yours is ttop. Eventually after many packages of rags etc over time. Really no point in messing with it more then I have until the seals are changed though.
Did some looking around and ran into some write ups the previous owner did. The posi unit is an Auburn Pro Posi which was put in around 2007-2008 after the posi that was in the rear gave way on his first launch on the 1/8th. The whole drivetrain has around 20-25k on it. Suspension is about 10k less then that. The car itself though (frame and body) has about 200-220k.
04-27-2015, 06:51 PM
