keykey

I just came back from the first test drive after installing an aftermarket "Torque Lock" Torsen (Helical Gear) LSD in my Borg Warner 9-bolt rear!

It began with me reading the 9-bolt facts thread, and some guy wrote that there was this company "Supa F Series Spares" in Australia that sells a Posi for a "VL" Holden Commodore that will fit the 9-bolt. I e-mailed them and they were sceptical about an australian made diff fitting an american car, so I sent another mail with photos that I took of my stock Borg Warner Separated Cone-LSD when I had it apart the last time. He then replied "it will fit". YES!

I ordered the diff for 495 Australian Dollars (approx 367 USD) + shipping. The total amount charge was about 527 US Dollars. Then the Swedish government wanted import tax and customs fee, so I paid approx 166 USD for that.

I also ordered new diff bearings from a local company, and a "SK SS10" Super Shim Kit from Rockauto because I had read somewhere that was what I needed. It was a USA Standard Gear part number USA55001, but the bag the kit came in said "Yukon Gear SKSS10". I had to replace the wheel bearings and seals too, as the seals were leaking since i last took the rear apart to replace my cones.

There was two problems that had to be solved to fit the diff. Number 1, that I knew of beforehand, and number 2 that I discovered myself.

1. The pinion teeth hit the case. You should machine the pinion to get clearance. I used and angle grinder to "machine" my pinion because I didn't want to remove it and have to do the "setup procedure".

2. The carrier bearing cups that are listed at parts vendors for a BW 9-bolt is LM102910. That's what I bought. The cups that were installed in the rear from the factory said LM102911, and were slightly wider.

The problem with the smaller cups was that you couldn't tap the spacers in place with the smaller bearing cups because the roller cage and carrier bearing seat were sticking out farther than the cup.
I eventually solved it by putting two of the shims between the spacer and the bearing cup, and a thick shim closest to the spacer so that it wouldn't get damaged as easily when tapping the spacer in place.

Here are some pics from the install!


The diff box, very anonymous. No mark, make or brand name anywhere. I still don't know which company that make these.




The diff as it looked just out of the box. It had corrosion protection on it.



Here I put the new diff beside the original Borg Warner Cone LSD to check if the ring gear seemed to be in the same place. It matched perfectly.



Here is a picture of the Yukon Gear SK SS10 Super Shim Kit. It consists of two 2-piece spacers that you fill up with shims to get the thickness you want. When put together they can be handled like a solid spacer (tapped in place between axle housing and side bearing cup). On the ziplock bag you see one 2-piece spacer to the right, and some shims to the left.



This is the modification you have to make to the Pinion so that it doesn't hit the new diff's barrel-shaped housing (that is fatter than the stock BW Cone diff). I used an angle grinder and removed material little by little until I could spin the diff freely when put in place with no ring gear on it.



This shows the old bearing cup LM102911, and the new bearing cup LM102910.



Here you can see the difference in width between the LM102910 (right) and the LM102911 (left) bearing cups. Note that I tried using the old larger bearing cups, but with them the new spacers were too thick to fit, even with only one shim in them.



Here is a picture of how I solved the problem with the new smaller bearing cups preventing me from tapping the last spacer in place.



Here is a picture of the new diff installed, side bearing preload and backlash set, caps torqued down.



And here, the photo you've all been waiting for. Does it work? Yes. It works.




So far everything seems good. I drove approx 20 miles tonight, did two burnouts and nothing has exploded yet. Cross your fingers for it staying that way!

Feel free to ask any questions about the install. As far as I know, I'm the first thirdgen owner to install an aftermarket diff in a 9-Bolt. At least I haven't found any thread about it anywhere when searching online! I'm really tired right now (its 12:19 AM in Sweden right now), but I was so excited after the test drive so I just had to post this!

RPOL98

wow, awesome job, glad to see somebody explore new uncharted high-risk territory with the high tariffs, even if driven by necessity. congrats!

though, kind of surprised you didn't go whole-hog by adding a TA diff cover, with the 3/8" studs for the bearing caps, but i guess the Swedish govt makes that a too-pricey proposition, and perhaps not driven by necessity. just one of those "while you're at it" things.

again, good job. thanks for sharing the endeavor and results.


edit: and thanks to dave999 for also being a true pioneer.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

I wondered about the Aussie market continuation of the design with changes and what could be swapped in "with a little effort."

Great job figuring out the races and clearance! I can honestly say if I had a 9-bolt, I'd be in for this swap!

keykey

Thanks! I have given the TA cover some thought, I might be adding that later since you always have to remove the rear cover to drain the fluid on a 9-bolt anyways. The only thing that I dont like about it is that you have to machine the bearing caps flat, because if something goes wrong with a bearing cap, well... you can't buy a new one? they are machined together with the housing i think? .

I might be adding the cover and not use the girdle, just to get more fluid capacity, better cooling, better looks and a drain plug.

And yes, a special thanks goes to dave999 for telling us about this diff!

Thanks!

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

Impressive tracks! Filing this away in the - future ideas section!

antman89iroc

Super job and I too am impressed you took the chance. If this holds up we owe you a debt.

With my low mileage, shimmed stock posi unit I can get 2 wheel marks all day long. Where it sometimes falls short is accelerating out of a turn, especially a right handed turn. Also, if I attempt a donut it will sometimes want to spin the inside wheel. (not that I do a lot of donuts lol) Anyway, I anticipate hearing more as you put miles on your setup and specifically how the new unit performs in turns.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

We DEFINITELY owe you a debt!

There's only so far we can make these old carriers go... I've machined my cones down for more life, but I have a bit of work and money invested in it... I'd like to keep it. Im not drag racing, Im autocrossing, and a Torsen carrier in a lighter diff is EXACTLY what I want!

Can you post some links or part numbers for the carrier? How is it acquired?

These guys? http://www.supafspares.com.au/differ...e-brisbane.htm

keykey

Hi! I was in the same situation as you, I only drive my car in the street, love to do the occasional burnout and I plan on driving it on the 1/8 mile once this summer, but on street tires, and the engine is stock. No need to spend a lot of money on a 9-inch or anything like that.

Already invested in new brakes for the 9-bolt, replaced the cones once but they bottomed out again. I just knew I would get sick and tired of continuing to screw around with the horrible cone diff. Both times i took it apart the oil was full of metal flakes that was a pain to clean up. Can't possibly be good for the bearings either so I knew it was time for another solution.

That's the company. I had an e-mail conversation with them, and when it was time to order, they already had my address and all I had to do was match the time difference for a phone call, so I called them early in the morning before i started work and in Australia it was afternoon. Gave the guy my Credit Card info, and he took care of the rest. Shipping was really quick, it only took a few days!

The part number listed on the packing slip was simply "TLVL" like it says on the box.

edit: I saw that you have 3.70 gears, I'm not sure but you should mention that and ask if they fit the carrier! Different gears fit different carriers! My ring gear is called 0578 and that's what I told them!

keykey

I went on a roadtrip to my home town to see some friends and take a longer "test drive". The total distance for the trip was about 600 km (373 miles). No problems. I drove it really hard the whole way too, lots of kickdowns and full throttle overtakes. The whole driveline feels tighter since the old diff had a big play between the spider gears and side gears. I no longer get a clunk/delay everytime the car goes from coast to drive, and that's very nice.

I did a couple of kickdowns in the wet, and a full throttle launch around a corner on dry pavement and the rear end kicks out now so that's fun too .

Since both wheels are driving now I can launch way quicker from a stop. Did a small burnout on the way home too and so far, no one wheel peels. Spins both wheels everytime! I'm very happy with this diff and can recommend it to anyone that has bottomed out their cones or just wants to upgrade to a helical gear setup.

subroc

iTrader: (2)

WOW. I think this is my solution for a better rear over what i have. I rebuilt my posi a few years back with new cones and it still sucks sometimes lol. I will have to look into doing this.

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

That's awesome. Agreed, filing this away into the 'future winter ideas' folder lol.

keykey

So my girl demonstrates how the helical gear LSD performs in "turns" .

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Glad to see another tire hater, Outstanding!!!!!
I think my 89 formula 350 asc vert rearend is ready to let go and I was grasping for a solution and now I have one thanks to you.
Thanks !!!

antman89iroc

I'd say she (& the car) passes the "turns" test. That is probably the type of situations were the stock one has problems. Especially going from "right tire loaded" to "left tire loaded" transitions and back.

I presume you used stock axels. I wonder how it would all hold up with better axles and gears too. I know the ring is still only 7.75" but when the power is below 700 or so it should hold up to the occasional abuse. I have been looking into the 8.8 as well. Lots of aftermarket. But still a lot to put in a different rear. I know the obvious choice is the 9"/12 bolt route but I still think the 9 bolt has some advantages.

keykey

I feel like that was a problem with the stock diff too, it seemed to one-wheel sometimes if you mashed it around a corner. This new diff still hasn't one-wheeled once since I put it in. Best upgrade I've done to the car!

The axles are stock, they look like new at the splined end so they will hold up with no problems since my engine is stock.

All in all I'm very satisfied with this purchase, I can have a LOT of fun with the car now as you can see in the video . The only thing I have to be careful about now is not to be busted by the cops...

a62belair

Subbed!
I have a well functioning 9 bolt, but always good to know the options.
Thanks!

Blizzard Bill

Great news here, Could you provide the EMail address for Supa F Spares? Thanks

keykey

I ordered from a guy named David, his email is

Dave [at] supafspares.com.au

Replace [at] with @.

Blizzard Bill

Thanks, David is who I emailed about this, and mentioned I got the info from you and your Fbody swap. Crazy thing is, when I pulled my rearend apart today it looked great in there. The cone has over 60/1000ths clearance from the case. The gear oil was free of any metal trash.
It has a 2.77 gear. What gear will fit the Holden carrier?

big gear head

Your 2.77 is on a 2 series differential. As far as I know the 2.77 is all that will fit on it (there might be a 3.08 that will fit). You will need a 3 series differential to use a 3.27, 3.45 or 3.70 gear.

keykey

That's what I've read too, so it's probably true.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

This should be a sticky since the search feature is questionable in its operation.

Eagle223usa

This should be a sticky.

gheatly

iTrader: (2)

Just sent them an e-mail... didn't see that part number on their website when I did a search. Hopefully still available.

Blizzard Bill

I'm sure they have more, I just bought one last month.

keykey

I'm sure it is, I never saw the number on any of their sites either. I just told them about my application and what type of borg warner axle a 9-bolt really is, and they sent me this. Never saw any pictures of it either.

"TLVL" is surely short for "TorqueLock VL" which means that it's a TorqueLock diff for a "VL"-body Holden Commodore, which is a very common car in Australia. I would be quite surprised if they suddenly stopped selling diffs for VL Commodores

dabomb6608

iTrader: (3)

I found this on ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/361358656713?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Aussie Company. Emailed asking about shipping to the states. Really tempted to try this, my 9 bolt only provides one tire of fire currently due to worn cones.

cosmick

No way a 7.75" is going to hold 700 HP period. The 8.8 swap is cheaper than putting this Australian differential in your 7.75, and there are built 8.8s out there holding 1500 RWHP on drag slicks, in full-weight street cars. Salvage yards like Pick-N-Pull have a steady supply of '99-'04 Mustang GTs to grab a correct-width one from, so why not? They come with cheaply-rebuildable Tracton-Locks that'll hold as long as you stay 28-spline, and stock Ford 28-spline shafts are far stronger than GM 28s.

Blizzard Bill

You have 700 HP and run 8.10 in the 1/8th? That must be a lot of tire spin.

keykey

I think you'll like it. It's a cheap upgrade, and you don't have to modify anything else than the pinion head, so It's a pretty easy install. You won't have to deal with a rear end full of metal flakes anymore either...

antman89iroc

Yeah, that'd be a smokey run lol. My best so far with 125 jets was 7.9 1/8mi. I am very gentle with the launch to avoid driveline problems. Generally I am at the track tuning rather than bragging rights.

I don't claim to have 700HP at the ground. I've not had my current combo on the dyno yet so I really have no idea. But the motor build has the potential of 500 at the crank and I have a nitrous kit with jets up to 200HP so I generally attempt to select or at least consider driveline components with that number in mind. I think the 9 bolt BW axle would be hard pressed to hold 700 net at the ground with traction. More than once anyway.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Bump

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Tony!

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

NP, It should be a sticky !!

keykey

Since I love doing burnouts, and you guys love watching burnout videos I asked my gf to film me when I got a couple of last burnouts out of my old tires .

I went back to the same strip of asphalt where I tested my TorqueLock LSD for the first time . Still works very well as you can see!

antman89iroc

I just notice that "9 bolt.com" is selling this diff.

http://9bolt.com/carrierspares.html

Looks a few dollars less than the ebay site. I'm going to check it out.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I need to get this ordered

scooter

iTrader: (11)

I've been eyeing it, but the shipping makes it sooooo much more expensive. Maybe if we buy a bunch we can get the shipping down?

NAWTDADZ

Awesome job. Im looking to do this mod on my 90 IRoc and my question is how did you set preload exactly?

keykey

If i remember correctly, after getting the backlash right, I just did it "trial and error" by adding an extra shim to the adjustable spacer and tried tapping it in until it was "not easy but not too hard" to tap in.

It was kinda like, I tried one thin shim and felt it was way too easy to tap the spacer in, then tried thicker and thicker until I couldn't tap it in because I didn't dare to tap harder, then I took the shim that was one step thinner.

I think I read somewhere here on the forums in an installation thread that it is very unlikely that you are able get the preload so tight on carrier bearings that it becomes a problem or damages them. I also read that too little preload will be a way bigger problem than "a little too tight".

So basically I just trusted installation tips that I read here from "Diff gurus" that I decided that I could trust based on their experience, and it seems that it worked well.

edit:
You're supposed to use a special tool from Kent Moore for tapping the spacers/shims. I made my own tool to save that money.

RPOL98

on your tool, what did you use for the curved "saddle" part?

hey, if it works, then it's a good tool!

keykey

The leftmost piece is an aluminium section cut out from a KIA Oil filter housing I found in a scrap bin at work. I used it because the curve of the filter housing matched the spacer/bearings and there was a steel "plug" in it, so I could weld it onto something with a MIG-welder. I wanted an aluminium surface against the spacer because it is softer and wouldn't risk making scratches or marks in the spacer.

I welded the plug to a piece of scrap metal that i cut to a shape which would work as a reinforcement to the aluminium piece, then I welded it to a bolt so I could tap the tool with a hammer while holding it.

amfornal

Any one know if one of these carriers might work for the 9-bolt? I found this TT912A642 GM 7.75" (Borg Warner), 28 Spline Eaton Truetrac Limited-Slip Differential made by Eaton that fits a 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO. ($560) I also found a Maximizer 04-06 GTO 28 Spline 7.75" Borg Warner IRS Slip Differential LSD for $279. If the Supa F Series Spares Torsen (Helical Gear) LSD can be made to fit like mentioned above, then I don't see why one of these wont fit. What say any of you?

NAWTDADZ

I was just researching the same thing and then I saw A post saying that the maximizerS are a joke but for $300 im willing to at least try and see. Since my 9 bolt is currently removed I may be the guinea pig.

big gear head

The GTO rear end has a different offset for the ring gear flange. IF the gear will bolt on you won't be able to set the backlash because of the different offset.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Would there be a shimable solution or is it a machining operation? Just wondering which way the flange would need to go.

big gear head

I had them sitting side by side several years ago and I can't remember which way it was off. Seems like there was quite a bit of difference.

amfornal

On this same subject, are the rear wheel/ axle bearings and or seals hard to replace? How do the axles come out of these 9 bolts?

big gear head

They are harder than other GM rear ends. You need a pretty good size press to change them. The axle bolt in. There are 4 bolts in each housing end that hold the brakes on and hold the axles in.

amfornal

So if I understand you correctly, the 4 bolts that hold the axles in are where the wheels are by the break caliper?.Unlike the 10 bolt where the clip hold the axle in place in the differential... I have a 20 ton press at home. I would think that that would be big enough.