S_Johnson

So, my clutch acts like it won't disengage completely. I can't get it into gear, and if I start it in gear with the clutch pushed all the way down, it clearly drags on the engine.

However, when I do that, I can leave it like that for 20 seconds or so, with NO SMELL. Which to me, implies it's not actually the clutch. Moreover, the actual "full engage" point is way up high, where it has always been, the clutch doesn't grab any MORE than that initial amount of drag, until the normal engage point.

It did this once, day before yesterday, then went away. Like a switch was flipped. Then yesterday, it went back, and has stayed broken.

The hydraulics are all new, etc...

The only thing I can think of, is something OTHER than the clutch is dragging on the transmission input shaft, like the pilot bearing/bushing. Is that what happens with a bad pilot? I need to get this dealt with ASAP, but I don't know WHAT needs fixed.

Thanks guys!!

383backinblack

It could be. It could also be the clutch disc itself coming apart.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

You're missing details.

What parts have changed since this setup?: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...-flywheel.html

In 1st gear on level ground with the clutch pressed down and the engine stuck at 3000rpm: Does the car move? If yes, repair the clutch release. If no, checking bellhousing runout is a possible diagnostic next step.

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

As 383 says, if any of the friction material is able to move on its rivets, it can move to the outside and hang up on the flywheel ridge. Enough to drag, but not so much as to smell.

S_Johnson

Uh, everything has changed since that setup, lol. I have a t56, with the proper flywheel, and a new-ish clutch (2.5 years or so, but a lot of time it was sitting). It's an organic "one step up from OEM" type clutch set.

Yes, the car tries to move with the clutch all the way down, but it doesn't INCREASE the effort to move, until you let it almost all the way out, to the normal "grab" spot.

Also, two people I talked to are SURE it's an oil leak getting all over the clutch disk, making it "goopy" causing drag even when it's disengaged. Which kinda makes sense, since it clearly does have an oil leak back there (it uses a fair bit of oil, but doesn't burn any at all), and the back of the engine is pretty covered in oil.

However, floored in second (400SB, so, a fair bit of torque), it doesn't slip at ALL, which doesn't make sense to me, if it's oil on the clutch, but I don't know.

87v6Bird

iTrader: (1)

I second checking your clutch disc. I had one that a spring came out of the hub and caused pretty similar problems to what you're having.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Watch your distributor cap on this one.
Unbolt & lower the crossmember.
Loosen all trans. to bellhousing bolts. Two can be accessed from in the car.

One by one, remove each bolt and install thick washers (0.100" to 0.125")on 5 or 6 of the 8 bolt locations in between the trans. and bell.
Snug things back up including crossmember.

If your clutch releases and the car no longer tries to move, then pull the trans., and trim the fork pivot tee so it's shorter.

The flywheel / clutch assembly dimensions are what's wrong / incorrect compared to an original assy. But you can get by with a little shortening of the tee.

87v6Bird

iTrader: (1)

This is correct but it shouldn't just start out of the blue on a previously shifting transmission. That's why I think he should look for something that's broken.

You helped me out before in my own thread, jmd.https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...utch-fork.html

My initial problem was a broken clutch disc followed by a new too thick disc.

S_Johnson

Yeah, my thing is that it started INSTANTLY with no lead-up issues. But then stopped after a minute, then "broke again" and has stayed broken.

To me, this means something is WRONG in there. I'm having a shop pull the transmission today, because I live in an apartment complex :/

So I should know in a few hours what he found... My strongest suspicion is a broken clutch, similar to what 87v6bird posted.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

I've been dealing with T56 Clutch issues for awhile. The car is a stock 95Z and It had about 80K on it when the clutch seemed to "not disengage" when shifting at speeds. It happened 1-2 times on-&-off and then failed completely while on the highway. Both discs have about 80K on them, left is just used,... right is the one that failed.



While some "space" things out to try and accommodate T56 parts,... the problem in that case is usually that the newly installed parts are not @ factory Specs,... so the person is left with needing to modify the original parts to correct for aftermarket variations.

Example; I used an aftermarket clutch in my 84 with Thridgen pedals and all other parts 4th gen stock. When I first pushed the clutch to the floor and started the car the back of the fork ( hydraulic end ) hit the Pressure Plate. ( SCARRY SOUND to hear on first start-up !! ) It's been completely fine since that first start-up a few years back. Then I used the SAME "stage 2" clutch in my stock 95Z a month ago and when installed the T/O bearing was moved sooo close to the tranny that it would not disengage from the engine at all. ( fork rested well "inside" the bell housing.) I had to install that old LT1 disc on the top/left of that pic to get the car rolling again The difference in the factory vs. aftermarket clutch was about 1/8th inch,... and that was enough to render the clutch useless. ( Without modifying the pivot point. )








What I noticed when comparing that "stage 2" kit was the PP was not as thick as the stock 80K LT1 PP - or my back-up LT4 80K PP - that I already had. The aftermarket Clutch Disk was so "thick" that it seems that the company built it thicker than it should have trying to compensate for a thinner than spec (didn't measure! ) PP. Weird thing is that it "worked" different in the Thirdgen than it "worked" in the Forthgen (probably due to the Pedals)


Back to the point --------> ! ( sorry bought' the rant ! )


In your case; since the parts were installed for some period of time and working & now there is a problem; something probably failed. Could be a bent Disc, Could be bent lips on the T/O bearing, could be a cracked fork,....... Pulling the tranny/clutch for inspection seems mandatory just so you can get a good look at all the parts.

S_Johnson

So, turns out the clutch was A: badly worn down, and B: Broken. A spring had come loose. The pressure plate was gouged all to hell, etc...

Luckily, the flywheel is in good shape (it BETTER be, since it's billet steel...)

Also, the pilot bushing/bearing was just straight up MISSING. (and yes, I'm sure I put one in originally)

Getting a Kevlar clutch kit put in Tuesday, so hopefully this won't happen again!

87v6Bird

iTrader: (1)

Glad you found the problem.

I'm curious. What was the brand of your failed clutch disc?

The one that failed on me was a Ram. I also have the flywheel/PP/disc that came with my trans. The PP/disc are both branded Valeo. The disc looks identical to my Ram and I found that it was cracked similarly. I checked it out after I had so many problems.

S_Johnson

Mine was a Zoom clutch supposedly one of their performance ones, "one notch above OEM" kind of thing.

The new one is a Kevlar, not sure who actually makes it yet.