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Old 03-07-2010, 10:06 AM   #1
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My 3.5 swap project...

I figured i'd start a thread since i've been talking about it for a while...


Here is the car:

Click the image to open in full size.


It was a 2.8/700R-4 car from the factory, it was bastardized with a V8 swap about 10 years ago. It seemed to be a pretty bad hack job, the car has a ton of wiring issues.

Last night the 327/700R-4 came out..

Click the image to open in full size.



Now i get to sort out the wiring to find what's left of the old 2.8 harness, repair the rust, get rid of the A/C box and other crap, then fill all the holes and POR-15 the engine bay, tunnel and underside of the car.


I will be using the engine harness from my 91 Cavalier, '7730 ECM and of course the 3500 V6 that was in it, bolted to a 700R4.


My Spohn K member should be here in a few weeks, after that things should get rolling pretty fast. I'll keep updating this thread with pictures and any issues that pop up along the road.



Dave

Last edited by DeathStarr89; 08-18-2012 at 10:27 PM. Reason: changed trans
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Old 03-07-2010, 11:13 AM   #2
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

I've been wondering, was it you or someone else who was running a hybrid on a stock tune? If so, how? I haven't been on 60* too much lately.

If you need any harness parts, let me know. I have a box full of that stuff. But I'm keeping the C100.
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Old 03-07-2010, 11:47 AM   #3
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Nope, i had hundreds of hours into my tune in the Z24. Never had a hybrid, just full gen3 swaps.


Thanks, i'll keep that in mind.
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:41 PM   #4
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

K member is here..



Click the image to open in full size.

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Old 03-17-2010, 07:59 PM   #5
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

where did the cross member come from...that looks like a hell of an upgrade over the stock one
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:38 PM   #6
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

that's from Spohn.
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:31 AM   #7
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Well this should be interesting. I'll certainly be keeping an eye on this!
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Old 03-28-2010, 12:19 AM   #8
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Spohn K member installed (was a royal bitch, B- for fitment)...

Click the image to open in full size.


1993 700R4 from a 4th gen, lower miles and clean.. bolted to a '04 3500 block for mockup of motor mounts and headers.


Click the image to open in full size.

need to get a Sy/Ty pump installed this week.. then get the car back on 4 wheels so i can get the engine/trans installed.


More updates soon...

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Old 03-28-2010, 10:38 PM   #9
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

ran into a few snags so i put the mockup engine in anyways...


Click the image to open in full size.


I need to find a V6 Fbody locally and get some measurements, i know this engine is sitting too far forward right now. I have a feeling i'm going to have to flip the trans mount around to move it back another couple inches...


I also get to replace the tops of the front strut towers, mine are pretty rusted out..

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Old 03-28-2010, 11:06 PM   #10
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

so you're swapping in a FWD 3500 V6? I'm gonna be watching this one.
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:39 PM   #11
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

alright so this is cool...ill be sure to run all my swaps by you if you could pick another motor to put in what would it be?
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Old 03-30-2010, 02:13 PM   #12
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

so a FWD engine will work in these cars? i thought the starter or something was on the wrong side? have I missed a major discovery (i've been absent for quite a wile)
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Old 03-30-2010, 02:28 PM   #13
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Kinda like to see were this goes.
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Old 03-30-2010, 02:52 PM   #14
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

consider me subscribed. If this works for a reasonable cost, this is a major breakthrough.
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Old 03-30-2010, 04:39 PM   #15
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

I believe he's using that for mock up purposes...there won't be a starter bolted to it so, it doesn't matter,...
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:42 PM   #16
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

the 700R4 doesn't care what side the starter is on, the T5 does. Just for kicks i'll bolt my starter on and take pics.


It's the flexplate cover that i'm going to have to modify, i don't have one so i'll probably just make one for it.


Reasonable cost may be hard to calculate, i found that it would be possible to modify the stock K member and make this work. I found this out after i had purchased the Spohn unit so I'll take the $600 hit on that one.


So far i've dropped about $1500 into the car, most of that is just getting it safe to drive. All new brakes, suspension, new strut towers are coming, new fuel and brake lines and about $60 worth of POR15.

1st design IROC wheels with all new tires are up next on my list. It'll probably be next year before i swap in a limited slip diff though.
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Old 03-30-2010, 08:06 PM   #17
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

oh, you are using the FWD block? oops.
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:06 PM   #18
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Here is my starter bolted on the drivers side.

Click the image to open in full size.


I've got the stock SBC mounts bolted to the K member, it looks like building mounts for this is going to be fairly easy. I need to take a few measurements and make sure the driveline angle is correct before going too far though.



More pics soon...

Last edited by DeathStarr89; 08-18-2012 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:12 PM   #19
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

i thought the major problem with this swap was that there was no way to mount the engine (being that it's FWD it doesn't have RWD mounts), however, I never looked to closely at the places GM mounts the FWD engines. I know a DSM has engine mounts on the 4G63 so it could be turned 90* for a RWD platform. very interesting indeed.
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:26 PM   #20
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

the bosses are there but they are configured differently than the RWD blocks. I'm basically going to drill some different holes in the SBC clamshells, weld in some spacers and use longer high grade bolts.


You can see how close everything is in this pic..

Click the image to open in full size.

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Old 03-30-2010, 10:36 PM   #21
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

so why have we all been wasting our time with a GEN I V6 then? I would think someone would've gotten the crazy idea before now. seriously, the difference in power and weight is damn good. i would expect a stock 3.5 to haul some pretty good ***. maybe not V8 good, but damn close. purple82TA have you ever done a search on this kind of thing? it's full of "almost impossble" and "not worth the effort" comments.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:55 PM   #22
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

I saw some of the topics several years ago which was one reason I never thought to keep my T/A for this swap. it's a shame too because it was in much better shape.


I ran a 13.07 @ 107.44 with the Z24 and this same engine, it should be good for around the same times in the Camaro. 12's would be nice but for now I'll settle for running/driving.
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Old 04-01-2010, 01:02 AM   #23
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

okay so with a 700r4 trans all that is in the way is the motor mounts ? THATS IT! If you get those mounts lined up correctly would you be willing to make some more or somthing if enough people wanted them? cause I would buy a set in a heart beat if they werent like 300$ or somthing (I cant come up with that kinda money) but I would love to just drop a 3500 or 3900 from a wrecked most any thing GM 2007+ mid sizer.. and have awsome power/MPG...(not that i have THAT kind of money either, but some I would have it and I would like to have the mounts on had lol..)
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Old 04-01-2010, 06:37 AM   #24
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Maybe.. but most likely i'll just CAD them up so you can have a local place make them.


I decided last night not to use the metal shell from the SBC block, i'm just going to make a pair that bolt directly to the V6 block and line up with the pads on the K member. This way i won't have to worry about long bolts flexing around.
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Old 04-01-2010, 03:27 PM   #25
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Glad to see someone try this!!

You said you are going to use the 7730 ecm, which is was the 91/92 fbody came with IIRC.

I'm still trying to figure out how the 7730 will run a 98+ tranny. But I havent looked into it.
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Old 04-01-2010, 06:14 PM   #26
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

I was going to use the 98+ trans but decided against it. the 700R4 will do for now. I wanted to keep things simple considering all the other work that i'm having to do to the car.


To run that trans i had planned to use a trans computer from a 93 Chevy diesel truck with the 4L80e. It's been used to run several E trannies including the 4L60e.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:07 PM   #27
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Post deleted to save bandwidth...

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Old 04-02-2010, 07:23 PM   #28
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

cad specs would be awesome. I could probably get the local votech school to make em for me ^_^
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:29 PM   #29
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Wow man looks like you really do have this thing well planned out. I remember I sent you a message asking you about it. If a 3500 will go into my Firebird then i will defenitely go for it. What mods do you have to make to the stock K-member?
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Old 04-03-2010, 10:45 PM   #30
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

I had always heard that the RWD trans wouldn't bolt to the FWD block! It'll be really interesting to see how she runs. I would love to try this swap myself. The wrecking yards around here are full of 3x00 engines!
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:24 PM   #31
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 86ttopbird View Post
Wow man looks like you really do have this thing well planned out. I remember I sent you a message asking you about it. If a 3500 will go into my Firebird then i will defenitely go for it. What mods do you have to make to the stock K-member?
I used the Spohn K member but i bet if you cut the stock one where i put the yellow lines in this pic, then boxed it back in the 3x00 pan should clear.

Click the image to open in full size.


I'm waiting on a few things from thirdgen ranch, once they arrive i'll be able to start moving ahead again.


Just a note, there is a difference between the RWD and FWD flex plates. the RWD ones are slightly larger. The pattern for the converter is the same though. Since i'm using a FWD starter i'm going to use the plate from a '05 3500 V6 so i don't have to do any shimming. I just hope it can handle the torque.. lol


as for cad specs on the mounts, these are being made to bolt to the SBC pads which is why they are offset. If a person was to modify the stock k member then mounts would be even easier when using the V6 location and brackets. I haven't seen the V6 mounts but i'd be willing to bet you could mod them really easy.

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Old 04-03-2010, 11:29 PM   #32
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Sweet!! good to know! One other thing i am wondering is would the 3500 oil pan have decent ground clearance? They seem like they are real deep and would sit low to the ground.
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:48 PM   #33
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

It sits about level with the lower tube on the Spohn unit, i won't know about ground clearance till the car is off the jack stands.
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Old 04-04-2010, 03:17 PM   #34
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Well it looks like your swap is chugging right along. What cars are the 3500's in?
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Old 04-04-2010, 04:15 PM   #35
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

sweetness, very interesting.
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:25 PM   #36
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

2004-2006 Malibu and Malibu Maxx, and a few others like the early G6's.


I got all the steel cut for the mounts and they are tacked together right now, need to do some test fitting and measuring before i finish weld them and drill all the holes. I'll post up pics when they are complete...
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:45 PM   #37
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Come on! The suspense is killing me!! Did you get any farther?
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:46 PM   #38
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

It's a V6, who in their right mind pulls a v8 to put in a v6? HAHA

**me remembers tearing apart a GTA to put parts on my car**
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:48 PM   #39
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

If this works, i know what i will be swapping in. I was pretty set on an LT1 until i read this. I was even looking into a hybrid. But this is a major breakthrough.
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:30 PM   #40
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

It's going to work.

There are more guys doing this, and has been done yrs ago in 4th gens
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Old 04-05-2010, 02:03 AM   #41
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

the 3500 was to replace the 3800, it was used in quite a few cars..

it was in almost all V6 malibus out side SS and the newer ones getting the 3.6 it replaced the 3800 in the impala at some point IIRC, the G6 as stated, I think the Lucerne once the 3800 stopped being made, its quite the common engine really... if it just takes a new motor mount and starter/flexplate to use a 700-r4 then this will almost definalty surpas the hybrid system as a quick swap...
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:30 AM   #42
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

there is still the issue of needing an external 7x crank trigger to run DIS on it. I've got the trigger already since this engine was in my Z24 though..



There is another Jbody guy doing a similar swap in a 88 Camaro, He's going to post up over here when he pulls his 2.8 and starts modding the stock K member to fit in a gen3 3400.
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:08 PM   #43
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

i still have all the parts for my G-body 3400 swap that never happend. may do this to the berlinetta 2.8L i am thinking of buying. has alot better body then the z28 it actualy has floors. sad part is it would then be faster then the z
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Old 04-08-2010, 03:45 PM   #44
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

put z34 badges on it lol

Z/34Berlinetta
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:55 AM   #45
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Looking good Purple....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 86ttopbird
If this works, i know what i will be swapping in. I was pretty set on an LT1 until i read this. I was even looking into a hybrid. But this is a major breakthrough....
Why would you consider it a major breakthrough lol....?
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Old 04-09-2010, 08:05 AM   #46
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

This is pretty cool I wanted to do the same thing to my old SCCA car but didn't want to spend the $ at the time. And don't let the guys get ya down on using the v6 instead of a v8. Built right, those 6's are sweet. The cars seem to handle better too. I taught several of my friends how to drift in mine
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Old 04-09-2010, 08:20 AM   #47
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Deleted Post, Item Was Just Sold....

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Old 04-09-2010, 08:08 PM   #48
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Thanks, that's actually something i need to start looking into. the 93 trans just has a standard VSS, no cable output. My speedo of course is cable, and i think it goes up to like 110 or 115..

was there an electronic version that i could swap in there?


I can use the ECM to compensate for whatever the VSS PPM is and output the correct signal to the speedo. That's how the Jbodies are.


On a side note, i feel dumb for asking but how the hell do you get the cluster out of these Camaros?

I remember it being fairly easy to get the one out of my '82 T/A


BTW, my IROC wheels showed up today but the rest of my stuff from thirdgen ranch didn't.
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Old 04-09-2010, 08:10 PM   #49
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Dave (Purple) let me know if you need an A/C Delete Box for your project....
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Old 04-09-2010, 09:41 PM   #50
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple82TA View Post
Thanks, that's actually something i need to start looking into. the 93 trans just has a standard VSS, no cable output. My speedo of course is cable, and i think it goes up to like 110 or 115..

was there an electronic version that i could swap in there?


I can use the ECM to compensate for whatever the VSS PPM is and output the correct signal to the speedo. That's how the Jbodies are.


On a side note, i feel dumb for asking but how the hell do you get the cluster out of these Camaros?

I remember it being fairly easy to get the one out of my '82 T/A


BTW, my IROC wheels showed up today but the rest of my stuff from thirdgen ranch didn't.
1. Are you using the 700R4 you mentioned or a 4L60/E? If it's the 700R4, you can just swap the speedo cable parts in place of the electronic VSS if you so desire, and you can use the existing wiring from the adaptor unit on the back of the speedo head to the current ECM (if the car has one) or retrofit that way. That's one option.
2. The electronic cluster was introduced in the Camaro in 89-90, and has it through 92. You'd have to ask someone else as to how to get to the cluster to remove it and swap. There are 2 tech articles on the TGO main page that you should look at, "Swapping an IROC cluster for a base model cluster" and "Swapping an Electronic Speedometer into your base model Firebird", the first giving basic Camaro directions, and the second on basic system wiring. That's the second option. However, to do this, you will probably need to rip out the whole dash to run some wiring, as neither engine system (V6 or V8) in the 86 Camaro had the electronic stuff.

I hope that will at least get you started in the right direction.
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