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At shaun. Yes I can convert my controler to about any fuel I just have to hook it up to my laptop with the slc software. I never messed with it but there are alot of options on that puppy.
Here is the update pics. Ive had a little bit of time here and there and basically have the engine ready to toss back into the car.
I am running E85 now. I have 80lbs injectors in already, a 450lph walbro pump in already, both e85 compliant. I still need to get a AFPR because i doubt the stocker would last very long with all the ethanol.
I swapped in my 26986 comp cams behive springs with new locks and retainers. New lifters, and ill probly regret it but i tossed in this new cam I got with the motor. Its a crower cam. .550 lift on the ex. .505 on the intake. 108 LSA(which is what i dont like about the cam) and the durration is a touch higher then my 270 grind cam. If i dont like it ill just toss the 270 back in since it has less overlap.
I got my quench to be .052
I rechecked my P2V clearances many times over. The exhaust is .09375 and the intake is .1375 I would have liked more on the exhaust but there isn't much i can do about that right now.
I'm running 3400 head gasket and with that extra gap that added to my quench it also lowered the comp ratio to 12.27:1 Which is still really high.
My future plans. Just to get it to run and baby it the rest of the year. My expectations aren't very high. I just want it to run and make passes at the track. If it only can run high 12s or something so be it. This winter I plan to go forged 3400 pistons, but until then i just need to baby it and run very little boost to stay away from detonation and also to not blow anything up..lol
I still need to rework my exhaust a bit as i want the waste gate in a different spot to have better control on lower boost levels. Also i need to finish up my 3 inch charge piping. I know its over kill but the IC the TB and the turbo outlet are all 3 inch and i have tons of 3 inch SS 316 in my garage.. literally tons of it. So i though it would be a fun project to tig up some pipe for the car.
All i was doing here was brain storming with you guys and look at the arguments ive started... its amazing.
Who was arguing?
... what's amazing is how shocked I am that I even need to explain what I said. The 3400 engine was never designed to handle 120+mph trap speeds pulling a three thousand pound plus vehicle in the 1/4 mile, period. ANY engine, even an iron duke, will run the numbers with the right amount of fuel, air and weight, it is not magic. Cast assemblies have their limits, and it is only a matter of time, and 120+mph traps speeds go well beyond that limit. Just because you were able to squeak by this whole time running 11's on a soft launch, which is essentially the borderline of any cast assembly, is a moot point. If you're happy running those types of setups then more power to you. I agreed with RBob because he understands what I am saying, especially with him running a Grand National with a cast setup built for boost, meaning the LC2 crank's are strengthened from the factory, the 3400's are not. You can obviously do whatever the heck you want to because it is your car, and if you feel you are "above" any advice while desiring to be the king of the 60 degree engines I have no problem with that. I came back and offered advice to a thread I gave up on awhile back because I read 120+mph and was concerned, you obviously don't need to take that advice. Keep doing what your doing because it seems to be working for you, and the E85 will help in the long run.
Looks good! You could drop the compression a little more with some 3500 heads...
Im hoping to pick up a set this weekend if I get lucky. It would be nice to toss a 3500 top on but for some reason they are hard to find in these yards here in nw ohio...
very nice man im happy to see u decided to give the e-85 a shot , if u still use the nitropus rember u need different fuel jets , call up the company whos kit u are using and they can give u the proper jetting for e-85
that thing is going to be a beast on 12.3-1 cr and boost
very nice man im happy to see u decided to give the e-85 a shot , if u still use the nitropus rember u need different fuel jets , call up the company whos kit u are using and they can give u the proper jetting for e-85
that thing is going to be a beast on 12.3-1 cr and boost
I've read alot about the e85. But do you have any tips on a plug to use? I was using r42lts. Ac delcos. But I would think I want to use colder plugs? I guess I can just run the 42 Lts as is and read it when it's up and running. Although a few friends run methanol in there cars tell me it's a tad more difficult to read plugs then say 110 leaded gas. Which I'm sure it is...
I'll call up nos and see what they say about the n20. I haven't given it a thought on weather I'll run that or not. If I do it would be a very very little amount. 35 hp.
not sure on the plugs but ill find out for ya , chances are ull want the an ngk plug something about the ground strap is eaiser to read cause of the different coating on the plug
So since ive been trying to learn more about how all of this works, i started to see what my dynamic compression may be. So after I tossed in some numbers on that pat kelly caculator I got 10.1:1 with no boost (all motor) and then i got a high 15.4:1 dynamic with 8psi of boost, which is what i was planning to run. Now is it me or is that dynamic freaking high!
I guess what im not use to is seeing the difference in dynamic compression when boost is added. Before with the 3.1/3100 set up with FWD pistons(also the 270 grind cam which lowered the dynamic a bit compared to the crower i plan to run) my static was 9.6:1 and my dynamic was 7.9:1 but when I added 15psi of boost which is what i was running.. my dynamic was 16.4:1! Now thats high. Really its higher then at 15psi and lower compression then my engine may be now with higher compression and mid. low rang boost.
I know im just rambling here but it is interesting to learn this stuff, hopefully im learning it the right way though. It was confusing to find the inlet valve opens at ABDC figure when I first started playing with those dynamic caculators. Dont laugh too hard at this, i know im still a newbee
I got the degree wheel dial indicator exc again and redid the IVO point. This time I go 58 degrees. I don't know what I did wrong last time but I got the same number over and over give or take 1 degree. So the dcr comes to be about 8.9:1 which isn't too bad really. That big cam does help. Since I was playing arround, I tossed in the delta 270. Dcr was up to 9.6:1 because of the IVO point. So I'm trying my best to learn all about cams right now and how they effect dcr.
I still don't know what I'm talking about but I'm trying and it's fun to read about it and try to grasp the concept.
I got the degree wheel dial indicator exc again and redid the IVO point. This time I go 58 degrees. I don't know what I did wrong last time but I got the same number over and over give or take 1 degree. So the dcr comes to be about 8.9:1 which isn't too bad really. That big cam does help. Since I was playing arround, I tossed in the delta 270. Dcr was up to 9.6:1 because of the IVO point. So I'm trying my best to learn all about cams right now and how they effect dcr.
I still don't know what I'm talking about but I'm trying and it's fun to read about it and try to grasp the concept.
after asking around to a few guys who run 12.x.-1 and higher cr with e-85 and boost , they all say the same thing u will be fine just sneak up on the tune , and u may or may not to go up a heatrange on the plugs
I've read alot about the e85. But do you have any tips on a plug to use? I was using r42lts. Ac delcos. But I would think I want to use colder plugs? I guess I can just run the 42 Lts as is and read it when it's up and running. Although a few friends run methanol in there cars tell me it's a tad more difficult to read plugs then say 110 leaded gas. Which I'm sure it is...
I'll call up nos and see what they say about the n20. I haven't given it a thought on weather I'll run that or not. If I do it would be a very very little amount. 35 hp.
I run r42lts in my setup. I am going to change them out when I get around to it though. Research shows to use a non extended tip electrode, so I picked up some ngk br7's Non extended top means the porcelien and the electrode don't stick up further than the threads of the plug
e85 burns a bit cooler so you can prob get away with running stock heat range at first. i doubt you will foul any plugs. I have about 10.8:1 compression, never ran my dynamic compression numbers though, and on the r42lts I never had a problem but I am only on 10 psi non intercooled for now. I am gonna switch plugs when I get around to it.
for nitrous jetting, a good starting point is using a jet 30% larger than what you were using. So if using a .020 fuel jet, get one 130% larger so you would end up starting with a .026 fuel jet. the nitrous jet can stay the same size.
I find in normal driving my car likes to be a tad bit richer than with gasoline when cruising. you may be different. Its not hard to tune it, it tunes just like gasoline really. you just have to do the math on how much extra to start with and dial it in from there.
Hopefully back on the road this weekend fingers crossed. I hope it likes the E85 that I just got for it.I tested it and it's 80% ethanol I was worried that I would get some crappy E85 right down the road from my house. It's literally 3 minutes from my house which makes it very very nice.
You are gonna love running it. I just picked up 10 more gallons at 2.03/9 a gallon. It goes fast but for the price for what is essentially race gas its worth it for my high Cr build. 93 here was 2.73/9 at the same pump
You are gonna love running it. I just picked up 10 more gallons at 2.03/9 a gallon. It goes fast but for the price for what is essentially race gas its worth it for my high Cr build. 93 here was 2.73/9 at the same pump
Yea 93 down the road cost 2.699 a gal and the E85 was only 1.899. So even though I'll use more it's way cheeper then 8 9 bucks a gal 108 or 110 octane.
Hopefully it starts up this weekend so I can tune it and go racing. I'll be easy with it the first few times out. 7 8 psi and hopefully it runs 12s with ease. Which I'm pretty confident it will.
Last time I ran low boost (9psi) it went low 12.30s@113mph and a time of 7.8x@89mph in the 1/8th.
I plan to also shoot 35 hp of n20 off the line but with such a small shot I may run it the whole way down the track? Not sure if the extra cooking of the n20 is going to be worth it or not....
If you think 8 psi will be fine first time out then go for it. I was a bit safer and went with 5 to start. checked plugs, afrs, timing, to make sure everything was "good enough" before turning it up and seeing what would happen.
8 lbs will prob be around 400 crank hp when dialed in. thats pretty good.
when I ran nitrous on my old 3.4 iron head with turbo, I sprayed the entire time, not just off the line. I never understood why people turn off the nitrous 100 ft or whatever out of the hole. use it the whole time is what I say. spraying e85 will pull a bunch of heat out of the intake, plus the nitrous will do it too. It will add to what the intercooler is able to do. The top end of the track is where the intake temps are hottest so every bit helps.
I say start with a 35 shot and work your way up. i would go with a 30% larger fuel jet and keep the nitrous shot the same for a 35 shot and see what happens.
I still don't have an intercooler on my setup and I am up to 8-10 lbs now. I might keep it off and just spray it for the cooling.
just remember this engine was to get you back up and running for the summer and to have fun. don't be too aggressive at the start. enjoy it for a bit before pushing it. Get some driving time in on it. it would stink if it pops 1 week after all the work put into it.
Well I can try to run lower boost levels. Im just so use to running 12-16psi all day log... IIRC the lowest spring I have got me to hold is 6psi on my gate. I was curious if that would be so far out of my turbos eff range that it may surge a bit...
I ususally only ran 35 50 or 75hp of n20 at the line because down track my IATs were always really good, thankfully, and i didnt want to add to the cylinder pressure that was already up there with 15psi of boost and 9.6:1 comp ratio. I only used the n20 for a spool up tool. And it literly took 1 second off my times just from leaving it on untill i made about 10psi of boost (2/3 of my command boost).
I do have plenty of fuel jets so i will up it by 30% and see how it likes it and go from there carefully.
I will probably try the 35hp shot just to help my 60 foot because without it my 60 foot is so sad. I have a 3500 stall converter(freakshow). When i hit it with 75hp off the line it flashes to 3900, perfect, litterly instaspool! But if I launch all motor (no n20) it flashes to 2900.... that's just low enough that it takes 60 foot to really spool up.
I remember back when I ran no nitrous and the S366 turbo, I could run 2.20 60 foots all motor off the line and trap 117-119mph on a 12.70-12.80s pass... That was fun for bracket racing because it tricked many people. I can at least remember 3 races that I won because of the massive top end speed.
If I add 75hp shot off the line, which would give me a average 60 foot arround the 1.70 flat area, i would then run 11.50-11.70 all day long at 118-120mph.
Thanks for the tips man. Im always trying to learn. Ill be the first to say it about myself but im still a newbie with all of this stuff. I might know a little bit but nothing compared to some of you guys on this forum.
I sure dont want to blow this thing up a week after it gets going. Im going to baby it for sure. Very safe tunes. If i could i would run this thing all motor at the track just to see what i could get a NA high comp V6 to run. I would guess 15s or high 14s but then again who knows...
One thing im going to try and do tonight is adjust the slc-diy2 wide band to E85. Ive been chasing down 11.5-11.7 under mid-high boost for afrs for the past 4 years. Its going to be a lot different to try and dial in high 6 low 7. At the very least it will look funny.
So if I change my scale over to the E85 scale on my controler, then stoich is now 9.7:1 give or take. SO aim for 9.5-10.5 for idle and a touch higher for lean cruise. Then for low mid boost ranges (5-8 Psi) i would like to aim twards 6.7:1? But obvcously my main number im concerned about is the boosted areas as thats where some damage can happen fast if I am outta wack there. Thanks for any tips. I know there is tons of info on the net but its all a mess and hard to actually find some good reliable info
you don't need to adjust your wideband settings at all. Like I mentioned before, your wideband reads lambda and converts.
so .85 lambda with e85 is the same as .85 lambda with 93 fuel. The conversion is done in the computer and spits out a number to your gauge.
which means you can keep your gas settings, and tune it for afrs in the gas range you are familiar with. No need to relearn e85 afr numbers.
my wideband I made no change with cause it reads lambda. 1.0 is stoich no matter what fuel is used. I still tune for 14.7 at idle and cruise even when running e85 and it works perfectly like that. 10:1 still feels very rich, and over 16:1 it starts sputtering bad and has no power.
you shouldn't have to change anything with your wideband.
So you are telling me to leave my wide band as is and I can continue to aim for the 11.5 afrs i was before under boost..exc? That makes sense the more i think of it. I guess i was making it more complicated.
Hopefully starting the car up sunday.... fingers crossed. Changing my tune as we speak to allow 80lbs injectors and then add in 30 percent fueling. Also rip out a touch of timing for now just to be safe with the higher comp ratio.
yes you shouldn't have to do anything with the wideband. the programmer just dumps the the afr reading to the gauge. So if you say its on e85, it shows an e85 READOUT on your gauge.
if you set it to gas, it shows a gas READOUT.
the readout doesn't matter because the sensor is reading lambda the whole time. Its the processor that you program to show a readout on the gauge. The only difference is the number on the gauge, not the reading of the sensor itself.
I am running a stock tgp timing map. so I am only around 13 degrees of total timing. LOL its a joke and I plan to add more to it eventually as I know e85 can take a lot more. Not sure what you are at or what you plan to run, but I figure that wouldnt' be a bad starting point.
So then when it comes to the sensors output to my ecm the 0-1vt and the 0-5vt wide band the same would be true. I only ask because i have been running closed loop finally, after running $59 for 4 years, and obviously it depends on seeing the narrow band mv voltage which in turn is a simulated one from my controller.
At 15psi i was running around 19* of timing. Which i don't feel is too much for when it was a 9.6:1 engine with aluminum heads. But now i will be running much lower boost. At arround 6-8 psi the timing i had before was around 21-23 so I ripped 1 degree out already just incase until i get the tune under control.
not trying to tell you what to do, its your engine, but with your CR, I would start at around 15 degrees of timing on your 6-8 psi. Then work your way up.
IMO you will prob be ok on low 20's timing, but once again, I say get some drive time out of it first, enjoy it for a bit, even if you give up power via timing. Add it in near the end of the year, in case it pops, you have the winter to work on your new setup.
No worries man I take your advise very seriously. I'll turn down the timing some more to be safe. Its not going to hurt to di so. I've never ran a high comp engine in my life so I have no idea how it will respond to timing.
I would have had the car started but I ran into finding out that the pilot bushing on the crank was still in there. But I got it out now and all I have to do is bolt up the transmission and started up. I work the exhaust over a little bit so I want to run an engine without the turbo on it first so that I can blow out all the metal shavings that could have fell down in the pipe but it's ready to go else then that. I also need to hook up the n20 stuff.
I rewired alot as well. You might not notice from the pic but trust me when I say the wiring is much neater. When you add a boost solenoid, crank sensor, line lock, n20 heater, n20 purger, 3 n20 solenoids, a hobs switch, 2 elect fans (one strictly for the trans cooler), wb o2.....exc the wireing can start to get a tad messy...lol
No worries man I take your advise very seriously. I'll turn down the timing some more to be safe. Its not going to hurt to di so. I've never ran a high comp engine in my life so I have no idea how it will respond to timing.
you have two opposing forces at work here in regards to EGTs... higher static compression will drop EGTs with all else being equal, while reducing advance will raise it. enough to hurt the turbine or exhaust valves/seats? probably not, I think you would need to need to run near limp-home values to cause that.
Very wicket, it sounds a bit different, and it's throttle responce is much much different. Right now it's still 93 octane as I just broke in the cam but hopefully it's full of e85 and driving on the road this weekend.
I just have to work on my starter that is squeeling like a dead pig and tune it tonight and possible tommorow i may make a road trip to the track on hopefully very low boost. 6-8psi. I got 10 gal of e85 in the tank and ready to let it drink it up. I got the idle dialed in quite easily but that cam sure is lopeing...lol
I just have to work on my starter that is squeeling like a dead pig and tune it tonight and possible tommorow i may make a road trip to the track on hopefully very low boost. 6-8psi. I got 10 gal of e85 in the tank and ready to let it drink it up. I got the idle dialed in quite easily but that cam sure is lopeing...lol
video please , how much gas did u still have in the tank when u put the e-85 in
I just have to work on my starter that is squeeling like a dead pig and tune it tonight and possible tommorow i may make a road trip to the track on hopefully very low boost. 6-8psi. I got 10 gal of e85 in the tank and ready to let it drink it up. I got the idle dialed in quite easily but that cam sure is lopeing...lol
If you are willing to do full pulls at the track I can only assume you have done some wots and all looked good?
I wouldn't make a trip to the track till you get dialed in somewhat on the street near your house. it would be a waste of money to be hitting the track and having to let off every pass because afr's arent correct.
Take some extra e85 with you if you go to the track unless there is a station near the track to fill back up on the journey home. my e85 mileage isn't great and with you doing tracks pulls its gonna drink it down. You might get 140 miles out of your first tank with the wot pulls you will be doing. I got 13 mpg my first tank of e85 while tuning and doing wot pulls and city and highway driving as well.
My mom has stage 4 cancer and has for about 5 months. So needless to say we didn't make it this weekend. But i did tune the car into 7psi. It went well.
Dave I had about 2 gal of gas left in in when I tossed in 10 gallons of E85.
Updates. Since I've had quite a bit going on with my mother that has cancer I haven't really messed with my car a lot. It is drivable and works fine butt after feeling how fast it is I do not feel safe without a roll cage. So what I am doing right now is building a roll cage for it. I am also building new stainless steel headers for it so depending on how fast I can get all that done I might not be racing until next year. While I am working on it I am also going to install head studs.
By the way I do have some stuff for sale if anybody is interested in the for sale Forum area. Custom length pushrods and my forward facing turbo headers are two things I am selling that somebody might be interested in
Updates. Since I've had quite a bit going on with my mother that has cancer I haven't really messed with my car a lot. It is drivable and works fine butt after feeling how fast it is I do not feel safe without a roll cage. So what I am doing right now is building a roll cage for it. I am also building new stainless steel headers for it so depending on how fast I can get all that done I might not be racing until next year. While I am working on it I am also going to install head studs.
By the way I do have some stuff for sale if anybody is interested in the for sale Forum area. Custom length pushrods and my forward facing turbo headers are two things I am selling that somebody might be interested in
i want the headers
, sorry to hear about ur mom , my niebor battled with it for years, the car can sit an wait
also instead of bending up ur own cage the comp enginering kits form summit are afordable and fit well , if ur doing a 10 pt cage the forward bars could be tweaked a lil bit to tuck them in better
Dave I'll sell them to ya cheeper then what I really wanted if you want them.
Yea it's been a struggle. I'm the primary legal person for my mom as she's not married and I'm the closest family member. Stage 4 lung cancer is no joke.
Hopefully though by next year it'll be the 10 second car I always wanted and it will be safe.
To be honest though along with my plans, I want to also drop in forged 3400 dimond pistons this winter as well and get the compression down to a mellow 9.6:1 but still run e85
I will have to look at the cage kits as well. I have access to a hydronic conduit bender which will work perfect for the hoop exc. But if the cost is close for I kit I'll go that route. I'm looking to do a 8pt with door swing outs on both sides.
I'm not a puzzy by any means when it comes to fast cars but that fastest pass I've made 2 months back and trapped 123mph.. well that scared me and thinking what if I wrecked really made me think. I need a good quality cage asap. Being certified in chromoly tig, tig root stick out (ua22) stick root stick out (ua21) I know my cage will be built well. All my certs were in the 6g position. United association certifications.
I hate to say this but I think the time has xome for me to join the lsx world for a bit. I have really made some major dents in the 60 degree world where it comes to pure performance but in my hobbie of racing you can only push these v6s so far before reliability and consistency becomes a problem. And to be in the class I want I need a consistant 10 sec car and we know a v6 can do it... but a lsx based engine is much more consistant and reliable for me at least.
So a Gen 3 lsx 5.3 iron block has fell into my hands. And I want to built it up right. So needless to say I'm going to be selling off alot of my stuff. Basically all of the v6 stuff along with my turbo stuff..exc.
The new set up will of course be turboed in time but done right. Built for overkill. So although this isn't a for sale area I just wanted to let everyone know that i have mass stuff for sale. Cams pushrods. Headers. Intakes ignitions dis stuff reluctor wheels injectors fuel pumps...exc no worries I have a free tricks up my sleeve for a v6 still but as for the bucket car.. my blue camaro. I'm going to get my feet wet in the v8 world for a bit.
So did you pop your 12:1 motor? Get any tuning done or wot pulls?
it would have been nice to see some results as I was planning on a 12:1 build myself with e85 my current engine is 10.8:1 but I would do more if its proven to work
So did you pop your 12:1 motor? Get any tuning done or wot pulls?
it would have been nice to see some results as I was planning on a 12:1 build myself with e85 my current engine is 10.8:1 but I would do more if its proven to work
what he said
what size injectors do u have , also u neever pmed me a price on those headers
what size injectors do u have , also u neever pmed me a price on those headers
No, I've made quite a few wot pulls. Its damn fast... lol Haven't got to race it because of my mom's cancer and I'm the primary person in charge of everything though.
80lbs injectors are what I've got. 8 of them.
I didn't see you pm about the headers.. sorry. I'm camping right I'll get with ya tommorow bud. Sorry
I do have a for sale thread if you guys wana check it out.
05-31-2016, 06:46 PM
