RBob

iTrader: (1)

Which is F6 in the '7730 ECM. The $8F code originally ran in the under hood '7727 ECM.

Will need to swap back to the 1-bar MAP. The $8F code won't handle a 3-bar.

RBob.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

ok ill toss in the 1 bar just to see if i can dial in idle if so then ill get a 2 bar.

Thanks!

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Almost positive that there is no error code for the TCC with the $88 code, so it shouldn't trigger limp mode, nor effect your idle in a negative way. Just be sure to keep it out of overdrive until you hook that back up...

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I keep forgetting the kid is running the '7730, whenever I hear $59 I initially keep thinking '7749. Bob, which pin in the '7730 correlates with that of pin A18 in the '7727 so he knows later on which pin to utilize for the wastegate, is it the same...?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

F2

RBob.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Never realized the only difference between those two ECM's were just the pin numbers being used, are they simply just inverted in number...?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Ok got a problem.

I first went to warm the car up with $59. Idled rough as always but ot it warm.

I then tossed in a 8f changing the things needed, fuel inje, the spark that Bob talked about exc. So it starts up ok then after about 10 seconds dies. I tried to start it again and nothing as i could smell the gas. I tossed in $59 and it ran again but was so rich it would choke you. I then scanned it and keep getting a code 51 prom error on the 8F but not on the $59. I re burn chip after chip and the same issue. So its going into limp mode off the original memcal in there and is so rich it would choke anyone.

Any ideas? Is the ecm just shot?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Code 51 is usually either a bad connection between the prom/memcal and ecm, or a bad prom in itself...

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Also Ive had that glitch before on tunerpro but when i connect it spits randome nonsence out for a good 5 seconds then goes into the real data and has the glitch. Its that random numbers that seem weird since non of them are red numbers..ie there normal numbers but senceless ones.

Ok rob ill go make sure its connected well. Ive tried 3 chips that i do have so I cant say for certain, but im 99% sure all three of my chips arent bad. And the offsets are right. So ill go look over the connections.

Gumby

^ rockauto is a great place for a new ECM, 1 days before my warranty was up they replaced it free.

If I didn't have to take care of a sick GF tonight I could bring over my spare I carry all the time. [maybe tomorrow?] now the canister purge valve section of the board fried out [my stock one was that way for 10 years I had it plus who knows how many before] but it still worked and ran fine.

The one I got now is only in there to see if I fixed the reason that section of the ECM kept smoking itself, could of ran the burnt one. That section of the board isn't useful to anyone.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

If the connections and prongs are all good, retry the chip you burned for the $88 just before you went to the $59 code, the heads and cam one, and see if the same thing happens...

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Theres about 5 different areas of the fueling scaller that have to do with fuel injector size. One says sec/gm does that need to be changed. I already put in the gal/hr and the lbs/hr.

You can stop by tommorow if ya want man. Hopefulyl it will run right by then. Loose connection because it works now but the car still wont fire right with the 8f. too rich or the timing is wrong. I changed the reference spark angle, and dumped in the 48lbs injectors but shes just not wanting to fire up and stay running.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Wait, are you running a 1 or 2-Bar MAP sensor with the $8F...?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

1

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

What were all of the adjustments that you made for the different MAP sensor...?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I didnt. Crap. I take it theres somewhere to scale it?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Before we even get into that, can you borrow the 2-Bar MAP from your GTP...?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

lol your gonna laugh at this but its at my moms. Ive got her truck for the weekend since i got a truck load of my car stuff/slicks and stuff that I brought to the house today. Ill have it back tommorow

Will it wire up the same?

Im guessing that right now if the car actually is pulling 50kpa its reading thats its double that if its scalled to double. Explains the richness.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Yes, it needs to be compensated for. I didn't want to see you do all that because I knew you had a 2-Bar MAP sensor in the L67. I would just wait until you get your hands on a 2-Bar MAP sensor before we proceed with the $8F any further. In the interim though, what I would do just for peace of mind, is I would install your old $88 chip with the 1-Bar MAP sensor, just adjust the fueling in that chip for those new injectors, this way we can just see if the surging goes away...

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

i actaully tried that but its so damm rich too. The only thing i need to change on there is the injector fuel rate at the last scallar? Right The killer thing is $59 still fires right up.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

It more than likely won't, wanted to try something but you need it for the GP, scrap that idea...

Even the $88 is running that rich with the 1-Bar MAP sensor...???

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

yea. Its werid as can be. I know its wired up correct. But toss the 3bar in and $59 and works great. The $88 read the correct map though when i hooked the laptop up. No error codes either. Its got me more flustrated then you can imagine.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

But this should tell you something though, which is why I wanted you to avoid changing things in the tune. Maybe it isn't $59 that is the problem. If the other codes are having even more trouble, especially a code that you had running with no flaws in the past and are familiar with ($88), then maybe it is in fact something on the hardware side which is causing the surging and rough running with all of them.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Go back to basics Mark. You had the engine running fine at one point with the new turbo and injectors, no? Then the surging issue started while you didn't change anything, and everybody immediately jumped to the tune. Go back to basics, check for vacuum leaks, check your plugs, wires, fuel pressure, injectors ohm's, coil, rotor, ignition module, burned or frayed wiring, faulty sensors, etc... solely for the process of elimination. If everything checks out okay, then go back into tunerpro.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The '7727 ECM is a '7730 ECM with different connectors and shoved into a weather resistant case. The connector pin out number are completely different. And, has 4 connectors instead of the 3 on the '7730.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I hate to say this, but $8F appears to be a 2-bar MAP only calibration. I just looked for an option flag for selecting between a 1 and a 2 bar MAP, and I can't find one. I wish I knew this so I could have headed of the trouble you are having.

If you are running a 1 bar MAP, that is why it is so rich. ECM thinks you are in boost.

RBob.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Ok rob will do. And dont worrie Rbob. I should have looked that up but I completly forgot about the scalling also.

I got $88 to work(iI sware i changed the fuel injec lbs/hr but aparently not)

When it ran...

I sat there and baby sat the car because it fired up perfect. Ran nice and was tuned for idle better then I could. IT DID NOT HUNT OR SURGE. But about 4 minuets later it got ungodly lean then rich. I then looked at the map and it read 98kpa at idle. Then died and was flooded rich again. Why did it do that all of a sudden. Ive been having this flooded rich starting too much latly. Its costing me $$ in spark plugs...lol

I quit for the night tossing back in the $59 mask with the 3 bar. And it ran like it always did the map read correct. But then again I only let it run for a few minuets. Damm it ticks me off that the car just sounds and runs so good as long as your giving it a little gas every now and again.

Ill go back to the basics and just start over. Working to make sure its not a mechanical issue.

Thanks so much agian fellas.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Mark, you recently purchased a boost gauge not too long ago, correct? Did the problems start happening around that time? Check to see if the boost gauge is leaking...

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I disconnected the boost guage a little while ago. Just because I didnt have enough of the vac line I wanted to use. The stuff they gave me was too thin and weak. Ill look over the possiblilty of vac leaks in depth tommorow first thing.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

There is no way you should be seeing that high of kpa at idle. It's either a bad MAP sensor, or you have a vacuum leak on the sides of the intake manifold since you already inspected the IAC and timing. Your cam isn't that big so it isn't that. Using a propane torch, not lit of course, move it around the sides of the intake, plenum, throttle body, and once you hear the idle rise, there is your leak. If nothing happens, and the boost gauge checks out to be okay, check your MAP sensor. Where did you get that 3-BAR sensor by the way?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Ebay for the map sensor. Its a gm part number 16040749


I will try the propane vac leak test first and see what happends.

When a :normal: engine is cranking over what would be a average kpa value to see? In my case with the 1 bar it was 96 .

One other thing i need to confirm is when i had the $88 running. After it died i was cranking the engine(this is when it was flooded smelling) and noticed that it said i had 0 degrees or timing. I confirmed that the spark was there by taking a plug out and open sparking it. I didnt try it on $59 but I will do the vac testing and also some ignition testing.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The MAP doesn't drop much until the engine catches:

RBob.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Went over vaccum leaks for 1 solid hour. Using the propane method, soapy water, and nothing. Not a single hickup in the normal idle process. I tried the vac on my autometer boost guage off the gtp. It shows the same as the other. about 22 inches of Hg when its idleing smooth.

Definitly not the mask. I went out and played with $88 after the vac check and it runs the same. And all i did on that mask is used a 1 bar and adjusted the fuel consis. from the stock file.

I swaped in a new coil i had from the other year when i thought it was bad. No difference. I tossed in a different TB i had that was stock and not knifed and ported. No change except the IAC position went way up. And surprisinly it ran better that way but still hichuped.

This problem seems to be getting progressivly worse. Now if I toss it into gear it will stall out. It was doing that the other day but is slowly getting worse now.

What would be a example of a lobe issue on a cam? The signs of it?

Im at my wits end. Why is this problem getting worse and worse. If i didnt love this car so much id just say the helll with it.

The injectors ohmed out ok.

Fuel pressure is spot on.

I cant see any vac leaks(Ive looked and went over this the most).

The tps sensor is right.

The IAC works.

The TB as a whole is fine.

Im not catching a vaccum or pressure outa the crank case.

Vaccum in Hg seems to be ok except when it stumbles.

Ive confirmed that the timing it is showing is the actual.

The cap rotor look fine along with the plug wires.

The plugs are a little hit(black) but It ran just like this 2 weeks ago when I added the new r42ts plugs.

Im going to test the vts output on the map 0-5vts and see what its doing also. But im assuming that if the datalogg shows the correct kpa then that map sensor is outputting correct.

Heres another log. As you can see the bar was wrong right off the bat so i had to turn it off and on to get it to read right. Ive been having that issue since last year. But the IAC in the log also is higher because of the differnt TB. So I put it all back to the original and still its the same.

I guess I can just reset the ecm for the 100 time and re-lean the thing again. Mabey im doing it wrong or something. I always pull the ecm fuse for 20 sec. Then start up and warm the car up. Then unplug the fuse again and start the car up and let idle for 5 minuets. Then im done.

Saar

FWIW: you can entirely bypass the idle relearn procedure once you find out what IAC minimum the engine likes. GM set the original NVRAM IAC Minimum values way too low in almost every calibration i've run across for the MPFI 60V6s.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Good, this is narrowing it down. After everything you tested and checked, it now sounds like the symptoms of a bad Ignition Control Module to me, do you know how to test the one you have with a light tester...?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I do not know how to test one. Last time I had one go bad the car just died and I checked it at AZ.

How do i test one?

Also rob just to keep my mind ok would these issues be from a wiped lobe?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Ignition modules can be bad from the getgo, or they can gradually get bad, until they finally go bad entirely. It sounds like yours is starting to go, so let's just eliminate that as a possibility first before we get into cam lobes. Connect a light tester to the positive terminal on the battery, and check for continuity with the Black output wire on the Ignition Module as you crank the engine. You want to see the light "flicker" during cranking. If there is no light, or a continuous light, the Ignition Module is dead and/or defective...

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

ICM checks out ok Rob. Thanks again for helping me though this.

I looked at the cap again and there is some signs of wear in there. Im not sure what is considered normal wear.

Im not sure how well you can see this but its got a good line of white stuff, on each stud. Ive never had issues with higher rpms or anything though which is strange I would think if the cap is indeed getting wore down.





I also traced all the wires arround the engine bay. Short of testing each and everyone. They visually look ok. Not fried, broken, frayed.

I did notice that for some reason I ran the power off the ecm fuse(under the dash) to the alky injection. Its for the silenoid arming the alky. So this could be a issue too I would guess. If I think back it did start to run funky arround that time but nothing like it does now. Dont ask my why I wired it there.... i think it was so the alky relay was automatically on when the car was.

I cant check that issue untill I toss the top end back on the car. In a few days Ill know im sure.

I also wiggled the rockers i could feel and they feel tight to me. No sparklyes in the oil either. I changed it today also along with the filter. I cut the filter open looking for speckles. I dont hear ticking either so mabey i was over doing the thought of a wiped out lobe.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Yeah, you would get that infamous valve clacking, or backfiring if you wiped out a lobe. I am definitely glad that the Ignition Control Module checked out okay though. You fish-hooked the alky injection solenoid to the ECM fuse on the panel lol? Did you change/up the fuse, or did you use the same fuse...?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Same fuse. Ive never blew one though. 10amp IIRC

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

... but the wire coming into the fuse panel on the other side is still the same size, and is now being shared by the ECM and alky system, and I'd be more concerned that the ECM is getting the correct operating voltage. The trouble codes (53) only tell you if the ECM see's more than 17.1 volts for two seconds, it won't tell you the contrary. I would definitely use another spot on the panel for the alky solenoid, just for peace of mind.

project89

iTrader: (1)

anyone u know close by with a spare 7730 ecm u can borrow?

if ur ecm checks out to be bad may i suggest thinking about an ms system ?

u will get boost control/launch control/ antilag/traction control/switchable ignition and fuel tables meth injection control and a ton of other features for lil less then dbl the cost of another 7730 ecm

cap looks normal but u can replace it if u want they are what 7$'s? or 13 bucks for the cap and rotor combo

if u had a cam lobe going flat u would know it right off the bat it would run rough or nmissfire/backfire etc

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Meh, I'm not going to get into which ECM is better, because they're all good. I fiddled with MS3 these last few months, and Tuner Studio is pretty cool. I would have loved to see him at least get the $8F code up and running with the right 2-Bar, but I think I will do that myself before I get the EBL-P4 Flash, I think Joe wants to see it done over on the Power Adder forum anyway, so I'll use my GTA as the test bed and document it during the build. Hopefully you resolve this issue as quickly as possible Mark, Spring is coming, hehe...

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I don't know anyone off hand that has a 7730 arround here.

Dave I'd get a ms but the cost Is pricey let alone I have no concept on how to put it together or make it work on my car. I can just buy anther 7730 for about 50 bucks. I would have gotten one already if I knew it was the ECM. I really hope it's that simple of a issue.

I'm going to just pick up another cap and rotor cheep, put the engine back together and then rewire the ally elsewhere. I'm sure I'll prolly still have this issue but I'll take it a step at a time I suppose.

Yes spring will be here soon about 60 days till the first time at the track. I really don't want to race the FTP just because it's my dd.

project89

iTrader: (1)

fast if u would like to go megasquirt buy the diy kit i will solder and assemble it for u at no charge and flash a base tune to it

the wiring harness is the simplest thing in the world to hook up

the unassembled kit is 207$'s + the wiring harness which is 68$'s

or u can do the ms1 2.2 instead which is only 157 unassembled + the wiring harness for 68

i do recomend the 207$ one as the actual pcb board is a better design and it has more built in protection against short circuts or miss wiring


if u want to go right to the ms2 setup its 278$'s for the kit




my v6 car runs a ms1 2.2
pilsburys car runs a ms1 2.2
my iroc runs a ms2 3.0 which i downgraded to a ms1 3.0

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Have you looked at your ign coil yet? BTW I was looking at some of your youtube vids, glad to see you made use of those manifolds. I see why you didn't want a flange on them, turbo's in a completely different spot than I expected!

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

What 2 bar map sensor should I get fellas. Somthing like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-2BAR-MAP-...7b6673&vxp=mtr

I got a spare ecm 7730 on the way. A friend down in (3 hrs away) columbus had one so hes just gonan ship it to me. 30 bucks to the door. Same guy i got the rear end from. He went carbed last spring. So I guess even if my ecm is actually good, its something i can sell later. Im just fixated that the ecm is flacky or ittermittenly shot.

@Dave. To be honest I cant afford the MS right now. But if you stay up with the offer in the summer with all the OT I do becuse its so hot out. I will probly pick a MS up as $$ will be a little less tight then.

@bl85c Yea the logs worked out well. lol thats why I didnt want the flange on there either. I was almost certain that I would have had to chop it off since my set ups a little different then most of the 660 turbo builds.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yeah man the offer stands it only takes me an hour to 2 to assemble a ms unit so its nothing for me to do it to help out

if u do eventually get one i think u will love the whole system and how well it works + all the added features

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Im sure I will dave. Ive read up a bit on MS and really like the added features and what it allows you to do. You know how a build and $$ can go. Just gotta use what ya can till you can upgrade. But in time im sure Ill have one. This summer is my plan.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I did order a AC 2bar map. Should be here this weekend.

Else then the few changes for the max retart and max advance to make the 8f work right on the dizzy system, is there anything else off the top of you heads that I will have to change. Im just not aware of any other issues that would arrise from me not having a DIS on the car since 8F was dis. I will say this mask seems to be alot more simpler for the most part. Thats a good thing in my mind.

Theres no WB hack in my files so I guess im going to have to learn how to do that along with toss together a good adx for the tables, history logs, and dashs. I will say its cool to be learning about another mask. This one has some stuff in it that $59 did not.

One thing is the launch mode that it has. Similar to $88. Also has a stall tq managment on the launch mode which im not sure what that does yet.