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Any plans for a test and tune before the part out?
I might go for a race next weekend although I'm trying to build up some cash to get a head start on assembling a new engine. I ran 1/8 mile a few weeks ago just 2 passes. 7.11@98mph and a 7.14@97. I don't have a cage so that's below what the track wanted I got a nice warning.. lol and haven't had time to get back to the track. I figure it was mid low 11s. I just have been driving the car a bit. And enjoying it. But look forward to my new plan this winter. It'll be a new adventure for me just like the turbo 6 was 5 years back.
I know i need to take it out but milan is outta the question since no cage...lol Im sure its a fast ride. The other day and i just spent literly 250 bucks on new ARP studs and yea the head gasket went once again when i raced that 2 passes at the track. SO i need mls gaskets. Right now i have another felpro gasket in there and the cars fine agine but the boost is not was 6psi instead of 8psi like before. Im just tired of taking the engine apart. The amount of money i have in this car is insaine.. But i had a fun time with the V6 for many many year.
This isnt the last time ill be building and playing with a V6 trust me on that. Its just a world that i want to take a look at and learn more about it. A sesoned lq4 block fell into my lap the other day and after rebuilding a few lsx gen 3/4 engines i really want to play with one in my ride for a bit.
your goal was to run 10s and you are pretty much there with those 1/8th mile times.
good luck with your swap, but it appears your made your goal with your v6
how much boost with that et and mph? timing?
8psi of boost which in the 2nd pass lifted a head gasket again and i had to trailor it home...again even though it just lifted it under boost and sealed up when not in boost, the oil was still trashed again. I just got new arp head studs too a few weeks before and beat on it quite a bit before this happen but obvously i need mls gaskets. I was running 16* of timing max shifting at 6300rpm.
And to be honest everyone....I want to sell this engine before i completly ruin it as right now its still in great shape.
Yes i hit my goal. Crap man i hit my goal the day i went 12s in the iron headed beast let alown mid low 11s with the hybrid. I dont wana sound prideful but I have made some major statments as a Thirdgen V6 member. Ive pushed the limit and Ill never forget the times and everything else that came along with the 660s. It wont be the last time i play with them i assure you of that.
I think you could build a reliable and consistent 9/10 second bracket V6 car... just sayin'.
I know..... and now that nothing i have is selling im second thinking my decision... damm. I know know one thing, if i do keep up with the V6s, it wont have nitrous on it and it will have FWD pistons, it was much more reliable that way.
Yeah, V6 parts selling doesn't happen over night, especially with the combination that you have. Not many people understand what it's capable of. You're price is WAY cheap for the engine IMO, and it's already sorted. I'm sure someone will jump on it, but will take the right person.
Yeah, V6 parts selling doesn't happen over night, especially with the combination that you have. Not many people understand what it's capable of. You're price is WAY cheap for the engine IMO, and it's already sorted. I'm sure someone will jump on it, but will take the right person.
The things id really like to get rid of is the turbo and n20 stuff. But im sure someone will want it eventually.
I know..... and now that nothing i have is selling im second thinking my decision... damm. I know know one thing, if i do keep up with the V6s, it wont have nitrous on it and it will have FWD pistons, it was much more reliable that way.
i think the combo the way it is could be reliable, coming from a gas to e-85 tune is not easy
i bet u the studs and a better gasket + ditching the nitrous would make that thing just as reliable as its ever been once u get the tune figured out
i bet u that car would go really close to bottom 10's if not 9's once u got it sorted and dialed in
So this setup is faster on 8 psi than then other engine on 14 psi and nitrous?
you use nitrous off the line for spool?
How does the higher compression engine feel off boost and while boosting boost? I am assuming it spools faster.
i figured something happened to the engine when you decided to go v8. it makes sense to be frustrated after all the work and a blown headgasket happens. You have a consistent mid to high 11 sec car, if you lower your boost to 5 psi.
Seriously 5 psi and the ability to running mid 11s? It just goes to show how capable these motors are. With your headstuds, I bet your headgasket issues will be solved. I would also pull 2-3 degree more out of it if you are going to wind it to 6300 and 8 psi again. If it keeps headgaskets in it and is reliable but down 20 hp, I would detune it to make it reliable.
Im at 10.8:1 on e85 and have headstuds and so far so good. My timing is around 13 degrees on 10 lbs. I normally run 10 psi but I have pushed it more on occasion just to see what would happen so my timing on higher boost is just under 10 degrees
Well since i decided to just stick with the V6( btw i still have quite a bit of lsx stuff laying arround so im looking for a roller camaro preferably a 1991 1992 auto to build up and do the lsx thing to that) I figure id might as well take the car arround the block. I laugh because even with my tune trying to smooth the idle out the cam still gives it a nice lope. Rough idle for sure but its definitly a mean V6.
I may try turning the boost down to 5psi and taking more timing out but my wastegate suxs the lowest it will go even with a 3 psi spring is 6-8psi and that varries a bit. I need a much bigger gate to relieve all that exhaust from a T4 turbo. I have a 44mm mini gate. I may have to add another gate or something to calm it down.
I definitly am ditching the n20. It worked great but damm has it caused me alot of work over the last year. I know that engine is putting out power all the way up to the 6500rpm I run exspcicially with that big cam. I think i need a loser converter. 3500-4k. The freakshow one i have is great but stalls at 3000-3100 tops without n20 behind it and trust me that big turbo falls on its face. Im curious if i just have too big of a turbo or what.
Also im noticing that my oil pressure is lower then normal after the last lifted gasket so it may be a time where i have to check out the bearings anyways this fall winter. I didnt know I lifted them last time till I checked the oil as it resealed up after I let off the boost. So I have no idea how long I was driving with that nasty oil in there. I already have arp studs on the heads but am still running cheepo felpro gaskets. They only lift under boost but didnt latley since i turned it down to the bare minumum it goes. Thats alot of compression but i will say one thing i dont get any KR. I only saw it one time and that was in my first tune.
So what head gasket do you all recommend that isnt a mls one? I dont want mls because I want that headgasket to blow if it needs to as It has before and saved my engine im sure of that.(remember the one from over a year ago that I blew at the racetrack at WOT?)
Also what ARP hardware would you all reccomend for the guts of this engine because I know me I will be taking it out to check the bearings and such. I really want forged pistons but I dont say that i can pull the trigger on that yet.
Best rings to get? Moly coated...exc.
Any tips on lower price wategates or even high price ones that will be able to blow off all of that exhaust gas from that big turbo to let it run 6-8psi consistantly? And is running that low of boost bad for that borg warner? Because I still have it for sale on the website because I honestly think its too big. It works great at 5-7k rpm but down low its so laggy my GT35 was so much better and that got me mid 11s too but also 1.6x 60 foots with all motor. The best I ever got with the 366 is 1.68 60 foot with a 100 shot of n20..lol
Everyone I had fun pushing it hard, but Ill be honest I just want the damm car to run 11.50 each week out and not have all of these little problems because I was a cheep skate. I know it would easily throw down a 10.99 pass right now with like 8 or 9 psi but it would also be a flip of the coin if it would blow head gaskets because of all the cylinder pressure.
I have run as low as a 5 psi spring on my setup, with a similarly sized turbo as you, except that I am running a 38mm gate (Tial MVS), and I have no boost creep at all with that 5 psi spring. it holds rock steady all the way to redline. I am dumping to atmosphere.
I noticed on page 18 of this thread or 17 that you posted pics of your wastegate routing back into your downpipe. I am not sure if you changed things since, but if not, what diameter pipe did you use for the wastegate outlet?
If the diameter is too small, the exhaust could be backing up through the wastegate as it can't get out fast enough being dumped into the downpipe. The exh backing up will cause the boost to creep as it can't bypass the turbo through the wastegate anymore. you should be using a 1-3/4 inch pipe on the wastegate outlet
I have run as low as a 5 psi spring on my setup, with a similarly sized turbo as you, except that I am running a 38mm gate (Tial MVS), and I have no boost creep at all with that 5 psi spring. it holds rock steady all the way to redline. I am dumping to atmosphere.
I noticed on page 18 of this thread or 17 that you posted pics of your wastegate routing back into your downpipe. I am not sure if you changed things since, but if not, what diameter pipe did you use for the wastegate outlet?
If the diameter is too small, the exhaust could be backing up through the wastegate as it can't get out fast enough being dumped into the downpipe. The exh backing up will cause the boost to creep as it can't bypass the turbo through the wastegate anymore. you should be using a 1-3/4 inch pipe on the wastegate outlet
Its 1 1/2 od pipe into a 3 inch down pipe. Dumping back on about 12 past the turbo.
But i swear this godspeed wg is just crap.. lol ive never been able to run less then 8psi consistantly since i got it. No matter the spring. But this is also when i piped the wastegate dump into the down pipe as well so you now have me thinking. usually i wouldnt care as i always ran 12 15 psi. But now it's crutial with high compression.
add another mini gate , or the srping in ur wastegate isnt what u think it is , u should be able to buy a 1 size smaller ex housing for that turbo.
u also have an antilag system .................... use it
Yea i could switch up the s366. Id have to buy a new housing and wheel. My housing is just too big imo. The compressor is fine.
The anti lag 3 step works but still comes to he a problem because yes i can build boost at the line. 3-5psi but then as soon as i let off the rpm sicks at 3000 or so rpm and voost goes away and falls on its face. Im sure it could worl but id need a tracl rental for 10 passes to do that at the least...
Changine the converter and palaying with the big .91 ar open housing would work best i think or just get a smaller turbo all together.
I still have my gt3582 just needs a new seal bearing kit and turbine wheel.
add another mini gate , or the srping in ur wastegate isnt what u think it is , u should be able to buy a 1 size smaller ex housing for that turbo.
u also have an antilag system .................... use it
True but ive bought 3 springs now and not on ebay either...lol i think its the gate or piping issues.
Did some more driving. No matter what I do the boost wont say low. Floor it and it goes to 10 psi no matter what.. hold steady but I want to run 7psi so I had to just half throttle it....lmao
Also my oil pressure suxs and its not the sensor as I have a external mechanical guage. Time to take it apart this winter. I think the times i floated the head gasket and mixed up the oil I didnt relize i did so till many miles on the road later.... messed up my clearnences in my bearings.
wow look how fast that e-85 starts cooling down the motor , u need to pull 2-3* of timing .
how much oil presure do u have? i dorve mine for a year with 5 psi hot at idle , its also a brand new motor so bearings may have not been setup with the proper clearances to begin with , are u running a modified relief valve in ur pump ?
wow look how fast that e-85 starts cooling down the motor , u need to pull 2-3* of timing .
how much oil presure do u have? i dorve mine for a year with 5 psi hot at idle , its also a brand new motor so bearings may have not been setup with the proper clearances to begin with , are u running a modified relief valve in ur pump ?
Thats about what i have. 5psi at hot idle..lol 40-50at wot. But before i lofted the head gasket the pressure was 25 hot idle 70-80 wot. Yea inmodified the pump same one inhad on my 3.1l before.
you running a thin weight oil? I usually go with a 20/50 in my turbo setups. you change it since you lifted the head? If your clearances are messed up than the damage is done. You can try to offset it by using a thicker weight oil.
Also if you are at 5 psi at idle, thats way too low. I wouldn't drive it anymore until you get that straightened that. you are asking for it otherwise. That bottom end won't last another 200 miles in stop and go traffic with that oil pressure that low especially if the oil gets hot. thats my opinion. The 60 degrees are known to wipe rod bearings on stock engines. They need more oil pressure than a SBC to keep the bottom end from dying.
I like 30-40 hot at idle, and 60-70 at wot. I don't ever like seeing it below 20.
Also my opinion to your boost creep is the wastegate outlet. its backing up. Again im using a 38mm gate with no issues on a 5 psi spring.
If you lower yoru timing to 10-12 degrees you can get away with the higher boost of 8psi. granted you aren't at WOT in that screenshot, but at 19-20 degrees at 8 psi is prob too much to start with. I would drop it by 8-9 degrees if that 19 degrees is accurate even at WOT.
Also stock head bolts are junk anyways in a performance build especially with boost. Once the studs are in, that will make a difference with gasket sealing.
Last edited by Shaun41178; 08-17-2016 at 05:24 PM.
you running a thin weight oil? I usually go with a 20/50 in my turbo setups. you change it since you lifted the head? If your clearances are messed up than the damage is done. You can try to offset it by using a thicker weight oil.
Also if you are at 5 psi at idle, thats way too low. I wouldn't drive it anymore until you get that straightened that. you are asking for it otherwise. That bottom end won't last another 200 miles in stop and go traffic with that oil pressure that low especially if the oil gets hot. thats my opinion. The 60 degrees are known to wipe rod bearings on stock engines. They need more oil pressure than a SBC to keep the bottom end from dying.
I like 30-40 hot at idle, and 60-70 at wot. I don't ever like seeing it below 20.
Also my opinion to your boost creep is the wastegate outlet. its backing up. Again im using a 38mm gate with no issues on a 5 psi spring.
If you lower yoru timing to 10-12 degrees you can get away with the higher boost of 8psi. granted you aren't at WOT in that screenshot, but at 19-20 degrees at 8 psi is prob too much to start with. I would drop it by 8-9 degrees if that 19 degrees is accurate even at WOT.
Also stock head bolts are junk anyways in a performance build especially with boost. Once the studs are in, that will make a difference with gasket sealing.
I changed to 20 50w oil yea it rased up the pressure a bit but as soon as the cars hot its back down there.thoae bearings are junk.. lol
The cars on jack stands. I agree to not run it. I need to take it out and fix all the bearings.
Im going to put fwd pistons though but still run e85. I want forged badly but damm 800 bucks.... i wish i could find them cheeper. I had speed pro in my 3.1 3100. Are kieth black any better? Im quite certain the 100hp shot i gave the 3.1l is what killed that piston in the 3100. No more n20 for me..lol craps addictive. But at least it made a 11.23@123mph pass... I like the compression but for me im so much better tuning 10-15psi and having compression that is more friendly.
Im headed to go racing today. But a friend owes me a favor. So im wheeling his 1986 mustang. Full baracket car not street legal. 11.90 car in the 1/4. Last points race of the year. Id take the v6 but when someone says hay you can come get my car and race it.... you just do it. Lol
u just need more time tuning the high cr setup , if give it one more shot , not only did u change fuel type u changed compression along with the cam so u had alot of things to tune for all at once
iirc u said ur using a mini gate? if so i bet u swaping to the same size full size wastegate would solve ur issue
u just need more time tuning the high cr setup , if give it one more shot , not only did u change fuel type u changed compression along with the cam so u had alot of things to tune for all at once
iirc u said ur using a mini gate? if so i bet u swaping to the same size full size wastegate would solve ur issue
Well right now I am installing a roll cage. And also I am putting a parts list together for this winter I am putting front wheel drive piston back in that car. I went three years without having any problems at all anf i did beat the living hell out of it. That's just too much compression with a turbo for a street car at least in my opinion. What I am stuck on it should I just dish out the money for forged pistons and rods or just buy some Keith Black pistons. Huge difference in price then I start to wonder what will the block handle and what will the crank handle LOL but I only plan this car to run about 11 flat to 11.50 in the quarter mile. That's about 450-475hp ish. Dont forget my car oly weighted as of now 3120 with me in it. But the cage will add to that.
As for the wastegate I just bought a new turbosmart Ultra gate 38 with a 7 PSI spring already in it. It wasn't cheap but I am tired of having eBay cheap wastegate I also plan to change up the placement snd outlet a little bit
just get some kiethblack hypers or enginetech ones , the engine techs are reboxed kb's
i wouldnt waste any money on forged the block and crank wont take what kind of power the rest will hold anyways , ur prolly good to around 500-550hp on the stock stuff
If you do 3500 heads it will drop your compression about 1/2 a point and make it a little more safe for you. But if you do the Fwd pistons with 3500 heads you will be around 9.1:1 cr.
Going to go back to what i know best. Turbo 3.4/3400 with 9.5:1 comp.
I got lake wood shocks and struts coming thanks to a friend thats a vendor. Also got my turbosmart wastegate. And alot of other goodies all new bearings timing set..exc. I want to get a tubular k member but wasent sure yet the difference with my v6. Is it as easy as bolting on my engine mounts or do i have to fabricate the new k member. Also getting a th350 trans x member with a built in d shaft loop with a adjustable tq arm.
Cars costing me alot but its slowly turning into a straight drag car
Waiting to pull engine to get pistons rings. I do have a 320 gritt 3.25-3.75 ball hone if cylinders look good.
Going to go back to what i know best. Turbo 3.4/3400 with 9.5:1 comp.
I got lake wood shocks and struts coming thanks to a friend thats a vendor. Also got my turbosmart wastegate. And alot of other goodies all new bearings timing set..exc. I want to get a tubular k member but wasent sure yet the difference with my v6. Is it as easy as bolting on my engine mounts or do i have to fabricate the new k member. Also getting a th350 trans x member with a built in d shaft loop with a adjustable tq arm.
Cars costing me alot but its slowly turning into a straight drag car
Waiting to pull engine to get pistons rings. I do have a 320 gritt 3.25-3.75 ball hone if cylinders look good.
Well lets just say i spent plenty on this car now. Turbo smart wastegate. electric WP(i plan to mabey start trailoring the car since i now have a truck that can pull it) mls head gaskets just for the hell of it...hopefully that doesnt kill me in the end. the struts and shocks(lake wood) new arp lifters(antipump up ones) as im tossing the delta 270 cam back in as its much better suited for my set up when running 9.5:1 comp
new braided 4an and 10an oil lines(my 5 year old rubber ones have seen better days..lol, a new harmonic balancer as i sold my old WOT dis kit one, a lockar oil dip stick to hopefully fit in between my headers...new rad hoses, timing set, cam bearings, rod bearings, main bearings, break in add, assembly lube, a fancy timing positioner for our tiny harmonic ballancer, and thats it for now.
Im checking the cylinders with a bore indicator and they look to be good so a fast hone and ill be tossing in hyper pistons. Im not going to push this engine. I just want to dial it into 11.50 and let it run. I also got a few other things in the process but let me say my wallet hurts...lol its amazing how fast all of that crap adds up.
I have lots of work between that and the roll cage and the RCI 5 point harness stuff i have already.
Cylinders are honed and ready to roll. I also checked the cylinders shape. Comes into spec with factory.
I have all my parts except pistons and rings as i was waiting to use a bore indicator to make sure the bore ahape was ok and that it was a std. Bore still.
I have a custom stall converter on yhe way. Should stall at 5500 and have good Street mannors. Im excited for that. Should help my spool up... ptc torque converter. Cost too much but should work well.
By the way the bearings were trashed for sure. I knew they were when it was only pumping 10psi max at warm idle.. thankfully journals and mains are ok on the crank. Smooth and still in spec. But ill plastiguage everything to make sure my clearences are good.
I know you aren't going to do it, but I am going to say it so I can make myself feel important.
put the high compression pistons back in and give it another shot, lower your timing to around 13-14 degrees instead of the near 20 you are at now. spend a little more time dialing it in.
with your lower compression, you are going to go back to a cam with less overlap too right? I think I read where you mentioned doing that.
I know you aren't going to do it, but I am going to say it so I can make myself feel important.
put the high compression pistons back in and give it another shot, lower your timing to around 13-14 degrees instead of the near 20 you are at now. spend a little more time dialing it in.
with your lower compression, you are going to go back to a cam with less overlap too right? I think I read where you mentioned doing that.
Yea back to my delta 270 split cam. 112lsa. Its a good cam for the 4000-6500 power range and the lsa is nice as well.
I would love to go high compression again... trust me but i just like the low/mid compression i had before. So much easier to tune and just overall more reliable for me. Believe me ive given it alot of thought.
Im using clevite bettings. I have the main rod and cam bearings already
hard to go wrong with those either , next time u need bearings for something give the king's a try , i soley use kings in everything now , damn most durable bearings i have ever used.
hard to go wrong with those either , next time u need bearings for something give the king's a try , i soley use kings in everything now , damn most durable bearings i have ever used.
Ive never tried them but will keep that in mind. I always used clevite bearnings and hastings rings in my V6s and never had any issues. Have you ever used hastings moly rings? I like them although they can be pricey considering.
I got my custom 4500 stall converter today. im excited to see if its more efficient and if it spools up better....
Finally replaced the wastegate with a turbosmart one and tossing my 25 year old struts. Keep in mind ive had this car since it had 33k on it.. trust me they were stock.
I mist admit im excited to run a ptc converter. This will be the first full custom converter ive ever had. Lane reccomended 5500 stall and im going with. 9.5 inch converter. Supposidly the slip will be 4-6%. Loose down low to spool it up tight as a rock up top. I gave him ever ounce of info on the car. Cam profile. Trans 1 st gear. Weight. Tire size. Boost level. Wjere i shift. Weight of car.. and much more. This is a new experience for me but they are very helpful to say the least.
Driving it on the road scares me becaude of slippage but he assures me it will be normal on the street untill you floor it.. then youll feel it instantly. Better be for 1000 bucks.. lol
I plan to find a open bed trailior this winter hopefully so i can haul the car but i still want the car to remain streetable. Driving a 450hp ish car is always fun
Ive never tried them but will keep that in mind. I always used clevite bearnings and hastings rings in my V6s and never had any issues. Have you ever used hastings moly rings? I like them although they can be pricey considering.
I got my custom 4500 stall converter today. im excited to see if its more efficient and if it spools up better....
sealed power perfect circle and hastings rings are all good
More goodies. Along with a new red top battery and trans cooler and braided lines for it..ignition coils..exc i got alot of work to do on this car over the winter.
Update. I have both the new struts and shocks on the car. I can tell that it will be a better launch already.... Also Im starting to plan on the roll cage. I would like to get that puppy welded in before the snow flys.
Also I got ahold of a msd dis4 plus ignition box..... not sure if its really a upgrade but when i had a msd 6plus before i really did like it, exspecially the timing retard option in case you want to run n20 on a tune that isnt taking that in consideration. My th350 will be built this winter with a trans brake. My tranny guy i know that has helped me said it'll be a 750Hp max transmission. I trust him. Hes knows his th350s and 400s. Of course he also said a th400 would be best but when we are talking 500hp regularly, a th350 built right will last fine all day long. Too bad i spent all my money on head studs, gaskets, PTC conveter, roll cage exc....or id toss in a 8.8 or 12 bolt and run the brake and do wheelies in the lil v6..lmao
Itll be cool having a V6 with a roll cage, turbo, and all of those goodies. I really need to get a 8.8 or 12 bolt in this car so i can shoot for those 1.4x 60 foots.....
I'd say thats a little tight. spec calls for 0.028-0.094. Although .094 sounds ridiculous too. I am guessing its supposed to be .0028-.0094. I can't see how nearly a tenth of an inch is ok for a crank bearing.
if you are at .002 than thats only .0008 tighter than tightest spec. You are prob ok but it is on the tighter side of things. which might not be bad, should loosen up with mileage a smidge.
Last edited by Shaun41178; 09-06-2016 at 08:30 PM.
08-13-2016, 07:06 PM
