willexoIX

Ok, let me put this bluntly. My thread, I said end of discussion. I have nothing against adaptor plates other than I DON'T NEED ONE.

I didn't say you were arguing, but when I have made up MY mind, in MY thread, with MY build, then when I say stop, it means stop.

I have a 700r4, that will bolt right the **** in, why the hell would I want to dish out for ANOTHER transmission. Then have to use an adaptor plate and make modifications to put it in? How does that make any sense?

THE ONLY REASON THEY KEEP BREAKING IS BECAUSE THEY ARE STOCK! What part of that goes in one ear and out the other?

Sorry that I'm a bit pissed that a STOCK, USED transmission is on its way out, like I didn't see it coming? I knew it would happen, so now I get to save for a 700r4 rebuild, big whoop.

Don't tell me that this trans is better than that. But you need an adaptor plate, shorten the driveshaft, modify the crossmember or whatever has to be done. I won't see over 400hp, a built 700 will last YEARS. And it will, *cough* bolt right in, whodathunk?

At any rate, Six, the turbo build thread is finished, there is no more information to share about it. If I have questions about the trans, I will post in the trans section. If someone has a question for me then they can send a PM.

My thread, and I am asking you to lock it.

willexoIX

You said it yourself right there. Small investment. This will be a FULL REBUILD including all hard parts on the best core of a 700 there is. It WILL last. Thats not a small investment.

willexoIX

Also what did I say in the very first post in this thread? I am not drag racing the car. Which means it will last EVEN LONGER than if I was.

350hp. As if that will actually make a properly built 700r4 fail unless that person doesn't know what the **** they are doing.

willexoIX

I'm getting pissy because it seems nobody can read between the lines. How many times did I say I'm keeping the 700?

How many times did I say end of discussion?

How many times did I make it clear I don't need a trans that will hold 1000hp?

How many times did I say I'm not drag racing the car?

And last but not least. How many times did I say LOCK THE ****ING THREAD!

project89

iTrader: (1)

yup my first 2 lasted with minimal parts , but evertime i got on the throttle it was eating itself alive . the first 2 were just shiftkits/servo boost valves.
after that i went to good clutches and steel kits in them with a few other mods and it would still burn the clutches , at 250$ a pop it gets old fast , specially when u kept a spare built ready to go trans in the shop so u could swap them and have a good one while u rebuilt the burnt one

small turbo,lots of low rpm tq and stock converter = death to the 700

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

I think you all are just mad and should buy a V8.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i have a v8 it costs 10x more then the v6 car parts wise lol

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

That's the truth.

willexoIX

Hmm, guess you havent been paying attention. I havent had a stock converter since I blew the first trans.

How many clutches and steels did you put in it? Did you do the corresponding separator plate mods? Did you match the boost valves to the revision of valve body you had? Did you get the right clutch pack clearance to match the separator plate mods? Did you upgrade the servo AND the 4th gear piston?

If you don't match everything together yes it wont live. It also wont last if you use the POS alto clutches.

But hey, what do I care...

Gfunkill

Well that escalated quickly...

project89

iTrader: (1)

yes i did , didnt use altos i used the blue clutch plates which are really good

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Sorry to hear you are having problems with the trans again.

All I can add is that my trans (700r) has held up great to a amazing amount of beating. Im not sure if its a freak 700r that can just take the beating or what. The trans before this one was starting to slip a little but not that bad, and is still in my garage waiting on a rebuild one day.

All I have on mine is the boost valve, int valve, vette servo, and bm shift kit. Its got about 130K miles on the rest of the guts in it.

I constantly check the trans fluid and the TV cable adjustment basically before each pass at the track.

Ill add one more thing, if i had the money........id throw my 700r away in a heartbeat, and go with a TH350 all day long.

willexoIX

I like my overdrive. Everyone keeps forgetting I am not building a racecar, so the get this trans or get this trans **** needs to stop. Am I clear on that?

In other news, the servo was the problem. The cover that I ground the oil return notches in I swapped for the one without notches. Also swapped the 89 servo pin in, it didnt have the scarf cut orings, and has a larger feed/return passage. I pulled one of the 2 gold washers out (the instructions were not clear on whether you use one or both gold washers included with the vette servo), and used the springs from the 89 servo.

The 3-4 clutches are still the weak spot, but much less lag between the shift and it doesn't slip in gear anymore.

The misfire is actually a backfire in the intake, which is muffled by the turbo, which is why I couldn't narrow it down. Its the timing set.

I have also backed off the wastegate adjustment to 6psi, cooler charge and surprisingly more pull. This turbo has a higher efficiency at 6psi compared to 10.

I am also not putting my foot into it as much anymore and its doing fine.

Really this will be the last update for awhile, or for this build thread. I have achieved what I set out to accomplish; an ECM swap and Turbo swap. I may update this thread from time to time, though there will be no dyno numbers, and no 1/4 or 1/8 mile passes with this car.

I will be starting a new thread soon for the hybrid motor build, the 3.4 is already partially disassembled, and I am also saving to rebuild the other 700. The hybrid build will be slow going.

Thanks for all the help and pointers, I appreciate the part that everyone has played in this build since the beginning, and thanks to your help I am now driving a turbocharged Camaro.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

I think you're mad your car is sloooooooooooooooooow.

willexoIX

Faster than yours.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Did you say hybrid?




I just talked to dana far a half hour myself about these trans. Hes a smart guy. I think its time to rebuild mine before it dies on my. Freak trans or not..ive gotten lucky on stock clutch packs and such.

willexoIX

Dana is awesome.

I know I need to grab another pillar pod, cause the FL heat cracked this one plus I had to modify it for the mini gauges. But it looks awesome with the new sunpro gauges. I paid $16 for each gauge. Need to pick up the oil pressure gauge to finish the look on friday.

The water temp is electrical, so I can get rid of that stupid thermocouple wire going across the engine bay and run the lead through the wire harness. The boost gauge is mechanical, but thats fine because the nylon line will be in the passenger compartment and not the engine bay.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

Mine is REAL slow.

You added so much horsepower with that.

willexoIX

Yup. +50hp.

willexoIX

Halfway done. Dont mind me I've had a couple few beers, lol.

willexoIX

Damnit.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

Lololol, at least your dash is installed.

willexoIX

Done and working. I likey.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Gauges look great Will, nice job...!

Glad you decided to stick with the 700R4...

willexoIX

All done with the gauges. Need to drill the oil feed restrictor from .063 to .090; its starving the turbo, put the new valve cover gaskets on. Retorqued the headers and collector, found 2 bell housing bolts backed out after putting them in with an impact on 5.

Got a bunch done today, not much left to do. I will be rebuilding the trans next month, working a 7 day job thats gonna pay close to $1000 at the end. Going to go with the street/strip kit from Dana. That'll hold behind the 2.8 and the hybrid with plenty to spare.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Yea I'm sure your 700 will be good to go after the kit gets installed. There good transmissions when built right.

When you do that be sure to get a decent converter to match. Freakshow wanted 399 shipped for a 3200-3500 stall. I'm sure with a lower stall it would be cheeper. Just something to think about. That's pretty cheep for a good solid converter considering our 60 degree engine choices.

I can't wait to see your hybrid build come together. You'll love it I assure you.

willexoIX

120 in 3rd. Yea I'll say 3rd gear slips a bit. Im sure the tune could get more out of the top end considering I have done 129 before the turbo.

Course it doesnt help that the newest Tunerstudio update broke tunerstudio, so I couldn't even tune that area.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Mine would only do 116mph in 3rd and that was at 6300 rpm..... now that's some slipping drivetrain.

willexoIX

Hmm, guess this black and blue trans really isnt too bad then. Lol

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

It was my 100 dollar tq converter more then anything. The trans still shifted hard and really didn't slip During a hard 1/4 mile pull. Still shifted fast. About half a sec 1-2 shift and .25 second on the 2-3 shift.

When I did the math with the slicks rear end gears exc it came out to about 21% tq converter slippage..lmao

Sorry you didn't see the methanol kit I had for sale. I had it up in the for sale section for a good 2 or 3 months.

willexoIX

Oh damn. Yea I forgot I got that 2500 stall in there, thats where all the slip was lol. I still have that same converter your using sitting in the shed; wasn't going to waste $100 if this trans blew with it in there.

Also, the flexplate isnt cracked, it was the bellhousing bolts backing out. Funny cause I loctited them AND put them in with an air impact on 5. Gotta figure out wth is going on there.

willexoIX

Tune had the wrong dwell settings from the beginning. Supposed to be fixed duty and minimum for HEI4. Switched it over and no more misfire.

I can probably put the dizzy back the way it was and set the car back to 10° base timing instead of bandaiding it by moving the dizzy like I did to stop the misfire in the first place. Any difference can be fixed by using the trim angle setting.

Dave check your dwell settings, cause they were wrong in the tune you gave me to start with.

willexoIX

So I was finally able to pickup another RS hood with no dents or rust and a set of hood shocks along with the front bumper emblem for $75 bucks local.

Also looking at a set of 17 inch American Racing Rebel rims with tires. They are on an Iroc, same car also has the corvette C4 HD brakes on the front which I would like to grab too.

Now I just have to get to making the duct from the front grille to the intercooler. No I am still not going to relocate the intercooler to the front unless I go with a bigger turbo.

Next up; Methanol injection.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

You can have the wheels, I want the brakes.

willexoIX

Bring your tools saturday, lol.

camaroyoungster

Does anyone know if you can swap in v8 700r4 internals into the 60* v6 case? That could be a possible solution if you want to keep your 700r4. I know for sure they have some differences but maybe they will fit.

project89

iTrader: (1)

they are basically the same

willexoIX

They will, just have to swap the input and output shafts, and put everything in the v6 case IIRC.

I am rebuilding my 89 700r4, so I'm avoiding that altogether. Trust me, I got it covered...

willexoIX

Anyone have an explanation for this?

Car idles great at 750-800 rpms in park. So I let it warm up, as soon as I blip the throttle, it revs like normal, only it never goes back down to 800; it sits there at 1300-1400 rpms idling. No amount of blipping the throttle does anything to fix it, and if I back the throttle screw out, the idle will be too low to start it.

The IAC is not hooked up, just fully extended to block the passage and doesnt even have the wires run to it. The IAC wouldnt make much sense anyway, as it idles at 800 before I touch the throttle.

TPS also registers 0% after blipping the throttle. Only thing I can think of is a vacuum leak somewhere?

Breakdown; idles fine till throttle is blipped, then high idle no matter what. Let it cool down and start it back up and the idle is back to normal, until the throttle is pressed.

willexoIX

Crickets huh? Cool.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

Buy a V8.

willexoIX

So I have decided to skip the hybrid altogether and sell the 3.4, and the 3100 top end, and buy the 3900. I will even make the VVT functional by upgrading the MS cpu.

The remainder of my questions with this setup will be asked on the MS forums, because this forum is of little help anymore.

I will update the table of contents one last time, then there will be no more updates of this thread. The build is complete.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

VTAK YO.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Lz9! Nice. I think the vvt would be nice but its just as nice to lock that option IMO. Youll love the newer aluminum heads im sure, be it a lx9 or lz9. If I ever toast the hybrid im going 3900 as well...or a V8( i would love to build a turbo 8 one day). But this engine has alot of racing to do still.

I would try to help more on your post sometimes but im lost with MS and what all you have going on. I am in favor of gms 7730 ecm and what it can do. So thats what I know best i suppose.

project89

iTrader: (1)

dwell settings must be used , they were supposed to correct the manual guess they never did.

old manual was used hei4 , look in the ms forums they have all the updated ifo there
the ne winfo states to use dwell settings like i had it , same settings im running on the iroc and its perfect, my miss was actually false ae triggering

willexoIX

Well changing mine to minimal for hei4 completely solved my misfire. Hasnt done it since and runs exactly the same as before...

project89

iTrader: (1)

minimal for hei4 will work but there is aparently the risk of burning up the moudle or somethign. would have to check the forums for exactly what the risk was

willexoIX

Next day off I have Im going to move the dizzy back one tooth, and reset the base timing to 10* and reset the trigger angle to bring everything back to normal.

willexoIX

I'm absolutely amazed that nobody following this thread figured out that the hard starting was because of the base timing being set at 0°…

Simple now that I think about it. The ICM turns off the bypass for cranking, using the base timing as the cranking timing. The ONLY way I figured it out, was when Matt Cramer mentioned that the ICM turns the bypass off for cranking. Then it finally clicked.

So with that behind me, I can officially say there are no issues left with the car or tuning. And my transmission rebuild parts are on the way.

In light of the above, this thread is finally complete. Feel free to post questions if you can't find what you are looking for through the table of contents. That is the only thing left to update.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Hey wille... I guess I'm sort of late to the show. Somehow I got sucked into the thread a short while ago and have been just clicking the " button on things that I felt needed commenting on as I read and now have a great big list that I may or may not post up.

FWIW, I'm not really a V6 guy, just someone that has always thought a turbo 60* V6 in a light 3rd gen would be the ultimate fast driver (I also have V6 fiero sitting in the wings as a future project I guess this thread caught my attention.

There seem to be a few ongoing themes going on through this thread that I would comment on... the first is the transmission.

I know people get hung up on "X is weak, ditch it," and they quite often take it to far. A 700 isn't the most bullet proof thing out there, but there are 2 things that kill them. The first is torque and the second is that there are a lot of junk parts out there and junk rebuilds.

Lets face it you don't really have _that_ much of torque. Yea you have a small quick spooling turbo which makes more cylinder pressure down low, but I'm betting that you're not seeing more than 350lb-ft, and it's from a small engine running boost, so you don't have the bruital, parts breaking hit a big inch engine, or say a V8 spraying N2O out of the hole (and for the most part I don't think you've broken hard parts), you just have that power that builds like a freight train that you get with a turbo setup once it spools.

So to a large extent I'm posting this to tell you that your instincts are right. Tear that sucker down, find anything that is loose/has slop in it that can be causing parts to wear/break, then get good frictions in it and get the valve body working right.

I won't argue with the forum trans pro... he knows what he's doing, but the fastest/most effective way that I've found to get these things to work correctly and live longer is to put a transgo kit in them, it really does eliminate all the weirdness you run into with stock transmissions, different rebuilds, and the misc different parts that people recommend to get them to shift right, get rid of flair... and the dozens of other complaints that people have about them.

If you start hitting it harder you'll have to consider upgraded hard parts, but I don't for the most part think you're there yet. (I've seen a properly built 700 live behind a built up 500inch caddie making tons more torque than your engine in a heavier car, and there have been tons of fast 11second f-bodies running them for years).

Where I think you're having a problem is your converter. Yea, I get being cheap, but in the long run it's not paying off. I'd love to say "run the cheap parts store converter" and I'm even tempted to snag one and see how it does, but the biggest thing that you could do to make this car better is to spend real $$$ on a GOOD converter. If you really asked me for a recommendation (I used to work at a speed shop, and did that kind of thing all the time) I'd say I need more info, but I'd bet that the right converter, probably with a stall over 3000rpm would turn this into a completely different car.

I know that you don't want to hear it (being told you _have_ to spend money on a budget build to make it right sucks), but a nice PI, yank... (one of the premium converters), even in a much higher stall than you're used to would turn the car in to a completely different beast when you're beating on it, and when you're just driving around it would feel stock. They just do stall tuning that much better.

Try to find someone local that has one in their car, and take you for a ride and you'll understand where I'm going with this instantly.