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Figured I would make another post with a problem I have run into:
As I let off the pedal the car starts to run rich. Talking about 100-104 in the history table. I have tried removing fuel from the main VE table and also the VE Idle table. I even tried flashing the stock tune back onto the chip and it still had this problem. Attached is a screenshot. This happens on deceleration and idle at stop lights. When the TPS hits 1/% the fueling mode goes into idle and it causes the car to go into open loop. Can someone shed some light here for me? Sorry for my lack of knowledge, I'm still learning my way around and have a long way to go.
Rich conditions on decel or throttle lift should, for the most part, be ignored. The engine isn't under power (obviously), nor in a situation where going rich is unexpected or even problematic. Changing VE tables to try and compensate for this can cause problems with other aspects of the engine running. Concentrate on how the engine runs, under power, idle and transitions up in RPM, and then use some of the other settings for decel and return to idle that are meant to control mixture for that.
DFCO (Decel Fuel Cut Off) should be engaged under decel throttle lift conditions, but I have found in many automatica calibrations, DFCO is either disabled or has settings that don't allow it to be enabled during everyday driving.
Also unless you reset the ECM, the same BLM will be used, even when flashing a completely different calibration to the ECM. BLM gets stored in a long term, but still volatile memory (main power disconnect clears it), so these same values are used until it relearns for those cells which can take minutes to months, depending on whether the learn enable criteria is met enough to change those cells.
I'm not sure which calibration you are using, but there should be an idle VE table, that would be used for most cases below about 2% throttle and about 3 MPH.
I have almost every part in my possession now, just gathering the small things. Also picking up some parts from mark this weekend like the t3 flange, BOV, oil bung, etc etc. Besides that my 36lb injectors are in the mail from Southbay and I need to get some oil lines and heat wrap. Excited to get this project going!
Ok else then the fittings and stuff i got for ya, you need these items for your oil lines still:
4an feed line hose. Im not sure how much I got when I got it. 7-8 Foot should be more then enough to route it correctly. Rather too much then not enough. This line is much cheeper so rather over spend.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-4-AN-1-4-Push-Lok-Loc-Lock-Hose-250-PSI-Use-With-Fuel-Oil-Coolant-/331216949280?hash=item4d1e119020&vxp=mtr
10an return line
Same applies I cant recal the exact amount I got but 7-8 Foot should do it. This line is crutal that you route so that it slopes the whole way. It cost more but the oil stuff cost me like 100 bucks easy when i initally did my set up. The last 2 brass fittings(the T and the close nipple can be had at a local hardware store)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-10-AN-Push-Lok-Loc-Lock-Hose-Line-Fuel-Coolant-5-8-Blue-Synthetic-Rubber-/330375722784?hash=item4cebed7720&vxp=mtr
4 an fittings you need that i dont already have for you.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Straight-4-AN-Male-to-1-8-Inch-NPT-Male-Adapter-Fitting-Free-Shipping-/281779259110?hash=item419b5a46e6&vxp=mtr
and
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brass-Tee-1-8-Inch-NPT-Female-2-Outlets-1000-PSI-FP22T-/360846486379?hash=item5404206b6b
and
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-8-NPT-close-brass-pipe-nipple-fitting-3-4-inch-long-/360338566184?hash=item53e5da2c28&vxp=mtr
Now the items for the 4an that i dont have for you....
2 of these... and trust me youll want these 90 degree style ones.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRE-20690-6-AN-90-Degree-Swivel-Push-Lock-Hose-End-Fitting-Red-Blue-/330378279814?hash=item4cec147b86&vxp=mtr
I have all this stuff for ya already. Youll still need one of the t3 exhaust flanges.. this one will do.
Mild steel
http://www.ebay.com/itm/T3-GT30-GT35R-GTX30-GT3582R-T3-T4-Turbo-Inlet-FLANGE-Mild-Steel-1-2-w-SS-Gasket-/181848991219?hash=item2a570b65f3&vxp=mtr
Im just happy someone can use some of this stuff....its just taking up room really and i want someone to use it, that actually needs the stuff.
I got that 700r trans if you want... free! lol it has a vette servo, bigger boost and inter valves..It made that 11 second pass last year then i ripped it out because i didnt wana completely ruin it. Its just missing the vss sensor but you already have the one outta it.
Still plan on doing this, but I pushed it back to the winter. I want to do everything right and not have to go back too fix by mistakes. Mark has been a great help and I can't wait until spring rolls around. Picking up a 4th gen rear with 3.73 gears and a t/a girdle, and hopefully some 3 way adj drag shocks for the rear. Excited to get this project rolling!
Deciding to do logs or just go with the forward racing headers like what mark has... any input? Obviously the car isnt an all out race car, but if I have the time and ability to do it should I? Pros vs Cons?
I can help you with your headers if you want. I will say though log headers are just easier to do and cheeper. But imo your goal will be easliy exceeded with log headers on the 3.1L iron head set up. Project89 may chime in, he ran logs on different set ups more then me.
But if you want the looks of the full tube headers and the change in sound...ill help guide ya on building a set.
- Managed wire harness
- Pulled driveshaft
- Pulled torque arm
- Radiator fan
- Radiator
- A/C lines & misc.
- Shift linkage
- Exhaust mount on trans
Getting closer, have a few more things to go then it is all coming out. Should I pull it out together or separately? I have a cherry picker but my main concern is the arm length, plus everything is pushed so far back.
Should I make a new thread or just continue updating this one?
Might as well just keep going on the same thread. You can always go back and edit it and clean up the posts.
I've done it both ways. But I feel its just easier to pull the engine seperate. And considering how you have a nice paint job.... I would pull them seperate. Pull the Trans then take the motor out. Just my 2 cents.
Dave he's pulling the motor to work on it a bit. Mabey add a new cam. Clean it all up and swap trans and tq converter.
Yep, just cleaning it all up. Need to paint the bay and engine, re-loom the harness, and give everything a good cleaning. I also decided on a delta 260 cam and it will be easier to fab up the hot side on the stand since I really have no experience. My car is more or less s daily driver that I take to 2-3 car shows a week. So I'm just taking my time and making everything look good.
Might as well just keep going on the same thread. You can always go back and edit it and clean up the posts.
I've done it both ways. But I feel its just easier to pull the engine seperate. And considering how you have a nice paint job.... I would pull them seperate. Pull the Trans then take the motor out. Just my 2 cents.
Dave he's pulling the motor to work on it a bit. Mabey add a new cam. Clean it all up and swap trans and tq converter.
ahh i thought he hurt the motor or something and i missed the post
Originally Posted by C2YT
Thanks mark, that was my train of thought too.
Yep, just cleaning it all up. Need to paint the bay and engine, re-loom the harness, and give everything a good cleaning. I also decided on a delta 260 cam and it will be easier to fab up the hot side on the stand since I really have no experience. My car is more or less s daily driver that I take to 2-3 car shows a week. So I'm just taking my time and making everything look good.
u going to do it black? if so throwing in a set of founders reds camber/castor plates would deff make it look nice
opps...lol Those can be a bugger. Is it at least one of the lower ones? They do sell these puppys that work wonders. They are rounded bolt/nut socket extractors. They sell them at autozone, lowes, home depot...exc. Make sure to get ones that fit 15mm as thats what those bolts are. But trust me these things work. Depending on the brand look to spend 20-40 bucks for a good set. I have used them many times and its a great tool to have in the shop.
I think I might have to get one of those. I'm going to try a wrench first, I can see it from the top. It's not the very top set, but he middle ones. I got the converter unbolted and the crossmember loose. Just a matter of time...
Got the transmission out, but I think I may have damaged the TV cable and the trans cooler lines. It was hanging by them for about 5 minutes, I had the jack under it, but obviously there was quite a bit of resistance. My main worry is the TV cable as it might of stretched. I guess we will see when it all goes back together.
Overall not bad for doing it all myself. Definately a learning experience that's for sure.
John thankfully you do have a spare trans now. Did I give you another tv cable with the trans you got from me? If there wasn't then I probly still have it in the shop with the other trans I have. Let me know, I'll look anyways for another one. If I have one I'll give it to ya. I have no use for it.
As for the trans cooler lines... for how little they cost i would reccommend getting a external trans cooler while your messing with the lines. I actually use high pressure fuel line (made for efi) with spin barb fittings on the trans itself then the same spin barb fittings on the trans cooler. Makes it slightly easier to take on and off. But I bet I spent 50 bucks on that high pressure line. But it works good and is easier to manuver.
John thankfully you do have a spare trans now. Did I give you another tv cable with the trans you got from me? If there wasn't then I probly still have it in the shop with the other trans I have. Let me know, I'll look anyways for another one. If I have one I'll give it to ya. I have no use for it.
As for the trans cooler lines... for how little they cost i would reccommend getting a external trans cooler while your messing with the lines. I actually use high pressure fuel line (made for efi) with spin barb fittings on the trans itself then the same spin barb fittings on the trans cooler. Makes it slightly easier to take on and off. But I bet I spent 50 bucks on that high pressure line. But it works good and is easier to manuver.
he can grab the trans to -6 an adapters , and use the push loc hose for the trans cooler much cheaper then using reg trans cooler line ,
u can get trans coolers on ebay fr 20$ that have the -6 an fittings on them already
Got the engine out today, will add phone pictures later tonight. Came out pretty easy, but of course it had to put up a fight. Forgot to take off trans cooler lines, and the throttle cable. Also cracked the wiper motor I believe. Everything should clean up pretty nice... I hope.
Let me help you tune it... it wont blow up. Just gotta tune it slowly and carefully. Ill show you a few hints and tricks to make sure you don't wound it.
Stock rear end... the trans i gave you with the stall converter, stock heads, delta 260 cam. Shouldnt have a problem getting into the 13s easy on 12,13ish psi of boost. Might need to borrow my drag radials though if you race it. I never got below 14.20s with street tires but then again yours are pretty wide so they might get you there. The stock heads are going to hold you back but still to get a mid 13 second car is nice to drive arround weather its a v6 or v8. So im sure youll have a fun time.
If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't bother porting the heads, and when I want more power I'd swap to a gen3 top end (3100/3400). Even the most "race ported" Gen1 heads don't even flow what a stock gen2 head does, let alone the gen 3 heads.
That was my thought process also. I can do the intake relatively easily and free up some airflow, but the heads would be much more work. I plan to tear the engine apart somewhat to clean it up anyways. I would like to take the intake off and shot blast it then clear it for a factory look. Nothing is going back in dirty, that is for sure.
I plan to run this setup for probably 2 years then look at the top end swap and follow Mark's build. Honestly 250 rwhp is my goal. Would porting heads make that big of a difference? It would make it slightly easier, I know that much. Are the castings really that terrible?
I plan to run this setup for probably 2 years then look at the top end swap and follow Mark's build. Honestly 250 rwhp is my goal. Would porting heads make that big of a difference? It would make it slightly easier, I know that much. Are the castings really that terrible?
that gt3582 will propably surge without the heads ported specially with the 260 cam
u dont have to go crazy with it but heres how a stock head is .
pull out an intake and ex valve , now place the much smaller ex valve into the intake side. the ex valve will not fit threw the seat of the intake .
thats how bad the intake valve is choked off
even if u only fix that it will make a big difference
ur going to have to change the valve springs anyways so just do it while ur in there
Honestly, for how much time is involved on porting heads, I don't think the gains are worth it. I know the car will perform to my goals with or without ported heads, and I could spend the time on fabbing up the headers or getting the engine cleaned up and ready for reinstall. Maybe down the road, but I don't think I'm going to do it this build.
I really don't see how stock port heads would cause the turbo to surge, especially where the 60 degree iron head is concerned vs a ported set of heads. The gains are minimal at best.
I really don't see how stock port heads would cause the turbo to surge, especially where the 60 degree iron head is concerned vs a ported set of heads. The gains are minimal at best.
no they arent , properly done they will knock 1 second off et on a stock engine
on a turbo engine boost levels will go from 15 si to 9 psi to make the same power
that 61mm turbo is to large for a stock port top end its going to surge at part throttle .
but hey dont listen to me just put it together and do it later when it starts surging on u
The iron heads are junk flowing no matter what imo. When i went hybrid i droped .50 second off my 1/4 mile with 4 less psi from the swap on the first time at the track. Stock non ported gen 3 heads. No other mods else then the top end swap and a rebuilt engine. I don't Wana get wrapped up into this arguing mess. It's been agrued time and time again. Best ported gen 1 heads in the world won't come close to outflowing gen 3 large port heads period.
Yea ported and polished heads on the 3.1l will help. 1 second off the 1/4 mile though with 6psi or so boost drop is a stretch though. I spent a good 40-60 hrs on my heads back in the day. I'm sure it helped a bit but no way could someone argue that my car would have only went 13.88 instead of 12.88 if I wouldn't have ported them. I did a pissess poor job as it was when I was porting them to be honest.
The iron heads are junk flowing no matter what imo. When i went hybrid i droped .50 second off my 1/4 mile with 4 less psi from the swap on the first time at the track. Stock non ported gen 3 heads. No other mods else then the top end swap and a rebuilt engine. I don't Wana get wrapped up into this arguing mess. It's been agrued time and time again. Best ported gen 1 heads in the world won't come close to outflowing gen 3 large port heads period.
Yea ported and polished heads on the 3.1l will help. 1 second off the 1/4 mile though with 6psi or so boost drop is a stretch though. I spent a good 40-60 hrs on my heads back in the day. I'm sure it helped a bit but no way could someone argue that my car would have only went 13.88 instead of 12.88 if I wouldn't have ported them. I did a pissess poor job as it was when I was porting them to be honest.
its not a stretch at all , i have the dyno results and timeslips to prove it
car went from high 13's to high 12's after with less boost and no other changes
the point is 3.1 with stock heads , 260 cam, converter and a gt3582 will be left of the surge line at part throttle
either do it right or do it halfassed and fix it later
he already has to pull the heads to open the rings up or atleast check the ring gaps to make sure they arent to tight
08-08-2015, 01:55 PM
