89camaroRSV6

these are the pictures of camaro_hunters headers...

more pictures to come very soon...

these are the preliminary pictures without the collectors on

89camaroRSV6

one more picture

89camaroRSV6

and another...

Xenodrgn

Hmm, interesting.

I have an idea to make these equal length...

the shortest one... bend it in a little bit... lemme ilustrate...

. . .
| / /
| / becomes...
| /

. . .
\ / /
) /
/ /
Do that to the middle one also.. bend it back toward the longest one... then run the longest one in as straight to collector as possible and play with it a little... it should theoretically work to make these equal length...

Xenodrgn

Ok, so my pictures didn't come out... either way.. looking good... I'm looking forward to seeing some perfected production models...

89camaroRSV6

well the main problem is the diameter of the bend ...

for eg 90* bend will take almost like 4" to acheive the bend

im sure hunter can make that clear to ya ...

he tried a lot before he got these ... theres lot of scrap pieces in his place wasted pieces

anyways xeno i dont understand what ur tryin to show there..can u make it a little bit more cleaerer

Xenodrgn

Yeah... I can be a little clearer... and I'm sure CHD has been working hard, I fully understand what he's been doing. I'm trying to help out.

Let me whip up some paint pictures and show ya'll what I'm talkin' 'bout here...

Camaro_hunter_d

I have ideas on how to get them closer to equal length but it also becomes a hornets nest. You can't weld tube in a hornets nest. I am tring to get them reverse priority.

Meaning the last one to fire has the shorest length. and it moves forward from that. So in theory(I have been told) the last cylinder to fire will evacuate first, create vacuum for the middle, the middle will create vacuum for first and so on. But untill I get a set on a car I do not know how close these are to that. I plan on bying more tube on monday. And I will mess around with it a little more.

Though keep in mind that my die will only do a 4.5 inch center line 180 bend.

loomdog32

good goin so far on the headers!! did u hear anything from the epa? keep up the good work!!

mike (oomdog)

Xenodrgn

I suck at paint... I'm a programmer not a graphic artist...

Anywho... this is my rough idea... I understand about the bend radius and all, but some of that should be possible...

I'm going to cut up some string tonight and sit with my fathers french curve and see if I can come up with some other designs to throw on the table... I'm no engineer or architech, and I'm certainly not in charge. Just gettin' the stuff on the table.

Xenodrgn

And then...

89camaroRSV6

hey xeno thats exactly what we tried earlier ... but that bend is not possible with the bender that camaro_hunter has ...cos that bend that u changed in the picture is more like a >90* bend and the diameter (center line) of that bend will be 4.5 inches and there is not enough place to clear that bend ...

the die is more like a circle with a diameter of about 5" so the bends will all be a 4.5" radius bend ...

89camaroRSV6

and in ur first modified picture ... ur showing 2 bends ... the minimum distance between 2 bends should be atleast 3" or more...
the bender cant bend 2 angles within 2" of each other...

KED85

Quoting from the Chevrolet Power Serivice Manual, 1984 page 1-20
Exhaust system
"A well designed & constructed open exhaust system with similar length primary pipes of the correct length and diameter is mandatory for a racing engine. The correct dimensions for such a system are 1 5/8" OD by 26" long primary pips converging into a 2 1/2" collector at least 33" long. These dimensions describe a 3 into 1 system to be run on each bank of the 60* engine. If engine operating range will be 4000 and up, a 2 1/4" diameter crossover pipe between the two collectors will be beneficial."
The LH7 exhaust system of the Citation body style is the least restrictive (circa 1984).
The modified picture shown by Xeno is the Chevy Power book exhaust "pictured".
How that bend is made.
IT ISN'T.
It's a pre-made "U-Bend" pipe, cut & flopped.
Hope this helps.
You can't find a solid flange base?

Xenodrgn

:shrug: It looked good... right guys?... right...? Heh... oh well.

SSC

:rockon:Looks like a great start!

I can see where Xeno and Ked are comming from. If its not possible to bend them that way with the current collector setup, is it possible to increase the angle if you were to step up to a larger type of collector? Flowtech Afterburners Have a large collector area and it looks like if you were to XXXy ( scrambled for law suite pourposes) that design it would give you more flexability with the bends your current bender is able to produce.
The 3 piece flange area looks like it (could) be prone to flex and distortion over an extended period of time.


SSC

Camaro_hunter_d

I can get a solid flange, but theres gonna be a **** load of cutting so you can get access to your spark plugs. I estimate that tto cut out 1 flange like that would eat through at least 4 cutting disks. Not to mention all that cutting can possibly warp the metal.

People You asked for headers, this is about what I can get. As I said I will TRY to work with them a little, but thats about gonna be it. I am NOT, REPEAT NOT, GOING TO DO FULL LENGTH. THEY ARE JUST TOO MUCH TROUBLE. AND I NEED THE ENGINE MOUNTED IN THE CAR TO DO THEM RIGHT. My car is a daily driver. I NEED IT ON THE ROAD. Meaning I am not going to yank the exhaust system from the cat forward to make these headers.

KED, not to flame or anything, but I have seen that page before and I have been told by many a people its means bupkis. That is written for full out RACE ENGINES. Not street driven cars. A well designed set of headers will make a BIG difference. I am trying to keep them short and sweet for ease of install AND ease of the Fabber of the Y pipe.

I see now that I made a mistake in spending well over $1200 bucks on this project (I shoulda paid off my car instead). I will mess around some more and thats it people. If the next 2 designs are not good enought for you TOUGH, thats gonna be it.

This is eating up WAY TOO much of my free time that I could be using for other things(rather things that I NEED to get done). I am not meaning to sound like an *** or anything people but enough is enough. I said I would come up woth something, I did. Then you complain about it and tell me I need to do this, do that. I cannot make compound bends with this bender. It is the cheapest bender I could get. It was STILL $300!. Die $200. stand(Homemade) $80+ Welder $200 engine to use as mold to make headers around $100 Original headmans that were a waste $256! Drill press and cut off machine $90 Odd tools(drill bits, hole cutters $70 Tubes for the bending $60 Flange material $30. You add it up people. That is what I have invested.
And yes I can use alot of it for ore then just the headers, and trust me I will. I will mess around with them some more on my FREE time that I can afford to waste. But keep ion mind that may not be untill next weekend, so untill then... I will post pics of what I come up with and that will be it. nothing else. If nothing more I have a small machine shop in my garage that I can make just about any part for my car.

Another thing, if you do not like what I come up with you can always keep looking on Ebay and pray.

Jaren Bon Jovi

Hunter, I see you put alot of cash and time on these headers. I hope the people who said they'll buy them actually come through with there promise. I think they look good. If the people on this site dont buy them I'm sure you can put them on ebay and people will buy them. Good job on the headers and I was wrong about you coming through........ you did and they look good.

Camaro_hunter_d

Thanks..

Xenodrgn

Jaren, that was the last thing I expected to come out of your mouth considering previous events... Welcome back...

CHD: I was never critical of your design. I always tried to be careful of what I said so I didn't anger you. I was merely presenting ideas. You're the boss.

Camaro_hunter_d

Your not the only one Xeno.. I was surprissed too...


I realize your not TRING to be critical... I am just well.... quess...

Project: 85 2.8 bird

well I got the cat back, just waiting on everything else
I do think you will have the headers done before I get the engine though

keep up the good work

KED85

Hi Camaro Hunter D
THANKS FOR UNDERSTANDING that I wasn't flaming ya.
I'm pleased you know about that page I typed.
I threw out some facts to help you modify what you have produced so far.
I've seen flanges for these 60* V-6 and I've also seen premade bends. I figure add those two items into the mix and you are onto something.
But, the design, passing the CARB, no, NOT YET.
You have the foundation, make it stronger.
I highly endorse what you're attempting!
PERHAPS what may be REAL WISE is to just create a "Y" pipe for us with factory manifolds.
Have us chop off our current pipe ends (exhaust manifolds & CC), attach to your "custom made" "Y" pipe.
PS NO EPA regulations to deal with.
You keep the CC in same location and make hole for O2 sensor.
Sell them on ebay and here.
A thought.

Camaro_hunter_d

Yet again those Y pipes require me buying another $200+ die, AND taking my daily driver off the road. Not gonna happen. What I have started with here is about whats its gonna be. I bought 6 more tubes today. I might get to it friday, at the earliest. I will see what I can work with and what I can't. I DO NOT WANT TO INCLUDE separate tight bend tubes and have to weld them onto the tubes I made. It creates distrubance in the tube and hampers good flow. Not to mention looks ugly as hell, as the 2 tubes would be made of 2 seperate metals and they would have different finishes. Yes they would be painted but I still think they would look ugly as hell. As I said I have a few ideas, but they WILL REMAIN SHORT TUBE.

And as I also said in a privious post I have wasted to much time AND money on this and its getting basically no where.

DEAD YOU WILL GET THE BEST SET THAT I CAN MAKE, I GIVE YOU MY WORD ON THAT.

To the rest of you guys... no such promise. Sorry. I have too many things I want(and HAVE) to get done that take priority over these headers.

Hell not to sound selfish, but I got a turbo on the way and I want to get a set ready for that install...

And I freely endourse any of you that have an extra $1300 burning a hole in your pocket to go get the stuff and try.

Peace out.

DeadHero8

hey guys, i actually like the header tubes just the way thay are, i like the idea of each cylinder creating a vaccume for the next. that makes perfect sence. by the way camaro hunter, will these fit a 95' with a 3.4 in it? im goin to look at one tomorrow (grandpa loves me very much). i like thes the way they are man no need to change them.


-Bruce

Xenodrgn

So wait, now we don't get 'em because we put idea's out there?

DeadHero8

hey camaro hunter, you aint pissed at me are ya? i was just sayin that i like the way your headers came out. nice job man. sorry if it sounded different(to tell you the truth i was a little stoned earlier).

hey man, by the way, you dont know what stock horsepower on a 95 3.4 camaro with a 5sp. and they dont ahve forged pistons do they?

Camaro_hunter_d

No. IF, AND ONLY IF I GET ALOT OF FREE TIME TO WASTE THEN I WILL PUT IN THE EFFORT FOR THE REST.

I have said many a time that Dead HAS PRIORITY cause he IS THE ONLY ONE THAT HAS PAID FOR THEM. That is the facts. Period. AT THIS TIME I am only obligated to 1 AND ONLY 1 person, Dead. THATS IT.

I am not saying that the rest of you guys are SOL, I am saying that DEAD IS THE ONLY PERSON THAT I HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO.

As it stands right now I have over 70 feet of tubing in my garage that can be used to make headers. AFTER I GET DEADS SET OUT AND A SET FOR MY TURBO PROJECT THEN I WILL THINK ABOUT HEADERS FOR THE MASSES AGAIN. I ALSO PLAN ON MAKING A SET FOR 89CAMARORSV6, AS HE HAS HELPED WITH THIS PROJECT. So if you want to get technical I have 2 orders. BUT only 1 is paid for.



And no Dead I am not pissed at ya. I am extremetly appriciative at how patient you have been. As far as the 95? 3.4 they are rated at 160/194? I believe.

Camaro_hunter_d

Yes these will fit a 95 3.4.

If you like this design I will keep them around and work on the next a little this week for ya when I get time. I will try to have 1-2 more ready for you to choose from this weekend. I will not weld up the collectors untill you pick out the set you want. I will email you pics as they are completed.

As I said before I am tring to keep them short for the easy of installation... no need to have a lift for the car just to get headers on right?, LOL Though you may need somthing so you can get the stock Y pipe off... oh well can't have everything can ya? LOL

DeadHero8

i like them the way that they are. i have acces to a lift anyways(im a student tech at a ford dealership).

-Bruce

89camaroRSV6

thanx a lot hunter ... but most of the credit must go to U ... u spend most of the time playing with those pipes i wont be surprised it ya had nightmares of pipes strangling ya lol

i have to thank ya for helping me port my intake ... i finally got them ported and ready to be installed ....

as far as i seee it ... his idea of vacuum beign created is correct and will work ...

and one more thing is that to acheive a smaller bend the pipe will devleop frills unless u put a roller thingy in there to keep the pipe from doing that

Camaro_hunter_d

get on yahoo and IM me

DeadHero8

ive only got aol, is yahoo easy to use

DeadHero8

either way, im downloading it now, what is your yahho messenger name?

Camaro_hunter_d

Yahoo is the same as AOL, No prob I am getting AOL now

Camaro_hunter_d

GenerationXracing Yahoo... Tring to get GenXRacing AOL

DeadHero8

im gonna try and get deadhero8 for yahoo, it probably take me longer to download cause i only have a 56k modem, no cable or dsl.

Camaro_hunter_d

AOL RSCamaroTurbo


Downloading now.....

Camaro_hunter_d

Thats ok I am 56K too... only connect at 52000BPS though so at least its a good connection... 30% AOL

Camaro_hunter_d

you want a slow system? try running an Atholon 1700+XP system with ONLY 128Megs of ram... NOT DDR either standard PC100.... THATS SLOW!. Have to hit memory cleaner every 30 sec's!.

DeadHero8

dude yahoo isnt workin, it says connection cannot be established with server at this time, thats alright ill jsut talk toyou on aol, and get yahoo later on or tomrrow or somethin

Camaro_hunter_d

almost there... 93 %

TomP

Well I'm glad you finally got a set done. Hopefully you can come through for the guys here.

WaynesRS

Look guys , Im not trying to start a flame but ; Think about it like this , it wil be better than the stock manifolds that we have on there now . I doubt hunter is ganna make these and make us loose hp/trq .I think he's a pretty honest guy . I myself , I am satisfied with the way they look , and I think Camaro Hunter knows what he's doing .Lord knows If I took on this project I would not even know where to start ! And $150 is a damn good price . I think the headers Summit sells , the 3.4 ones (pacesetter) have gone up to $200 bucks .They use to be like 170 I think . Heck , you can buy these headers from Hunter for 150 and you dont have to go threw the agravation of making them fit ! (thats what hunter is for ) AND you can spend $50 extra dollers and get the y-pipe . Pretty damn good deal to me guys ! and yeah , even if they dont flow the best , its still better than stocker manifolds !

I wont be buying any headers from you soon hunter .Tranny went out , 1300 bucks there and I have to re-build my distributor .But , in the next year I will be !!!

89camaroRSV6

trust me ... i can tell ya that these manifolds are definitely bigger than teh stock ones...

u can still port the exhausts if u need and still these headers will do just fine...

Camaro_hunter_d

Actually you can port the exhaust openings 1/8" all the way around and they will match the openings of these headers...

stuart69427

Ok, i need to rebuild my distibutor, and and get my timing right first, maybe two or four weeks, ill order your headers and y-pipe, $200 is a good price, i like them the way they are, cuase they are better than nothing.

btw - I have not heard anything of how they sound?

Project: 85 2.8 bird

they'll sound like like a 2.8w/headers

C_H_D, how far away are you from elburn? I'm gonna have to pick up the motor now instead of meeting 1/2 way ( oh well, longer road trip )

89camaroRSV6

thats cos we havent put it on an engine yet ... these are preliminary headers ... CHD still has to get the collectors and weld them on and try to put a pair on an engine to test how they sound...

but its not very far away .....very soon he will have them on

Camaro_hunter_d

I got a motor now... but I am close to 6 hours south of chicago. 3 hours south of springfield.