F-Body Int

Hello thirdgen forum members,

This is actually my first post on the forum but I am interested to find out about the R15 Firehawk wheels. I noticed that Hawks Third Gen has them for sale on their website but when I research around on the forum I find that there a lot of statements over a number of years saying that they aren't being produced.

Are these wheels available anywhere?

I'm actually thinking about this wheel for my '79 Trans Am.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Yes, Hawks, classic and others are selling repops.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Be aware the barrel is much smaller than modern 17" wheels and requires stock brakes. I don't even think LS1 brakes fit.

I would have a set in a heart beat if I could use my brakes.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

On the original R15s, 13" 4 piston Brembos fit and so do 12" 1LE brakes.

F-Body Int

Thanks for the responses guys. I might just order 1 wheel to test fit on my car at this point. I know there's some interchange parts for 2nd-3rd gen but it's probably better safe than sorry. I plan on installing either the 12" or 13" front brake kit from Pro-Touring F-Body. The 12" is a lightweight setup geared for autocross and the 13" rotor is more for high speed road course.

http://pro-touringf-body.com/brakes.html

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

They've been in and out of production several times over the years. ...I do believe that as of now, Hawk's has em.

...as for Brakes, I'm sure Hawk's will know. Just give them a buzz and let them know what your plans are. ...and read here:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/brak...ronal-r15.html




......on a side note, WELCOME to TGO! .....when you mentioned you just joined, I couldn't help noticing that the rest of us posting in this thread have been here for FIFTEEN YEARS!!!!!! OMG!

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

"......on a side note, WELCOME to TGO! .....when you mentioned you just joined, I couldn't help noticing that the rest of us posting in this thread have been here for FIFTEEN YEARS!!!!!! OMG!"

I noticed that too and chuckled!
The "new guy" got some great info from some "older guys!"

F-Body Int

Thanks again for the welcome. I actually just ordered one the R15 wheels from Jegs this past weekend to test fit. It's showing that they haven't shipped so I'll keep you guys updated soon enough. I'm definitely anxious and hope that this wheel will fit my car correcty and look good.

Again, this is hopefully going on my 2nd gen '79 Trans Am.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I have seen several 2nd gen birds with those wheels so you should be good

paul_huryk

You can fit those wheels on a 2nd gen, but you will need aftermarket upper control arms to clear without having clearance issues. A while back I had a 74 Camaro with those wheels come in and the control arms were barely touching the wheels, "machining" the wheels as steel is much harder than aluminum. Aftermarket would have fixed the problem completely. CTW Motorsports wheels fit perfect as the have " less BS and do not hi the CA up front.

F-Body Int

I was holding off on details with my car but I'll bring it up since you mention control arms. Right now my subframe is getting work done at a shop called Pro-Touring F-Body (www.pro-touringf-body.com). Some on this forum probably haven't heard of them because Dave, the owner, has specialized in 1st/2nd gen F-Body. He has, however, been considering getting into the 3rd/4th gen market recently. I'm basically installing everything PTFB makes. I'll mention the rear suspension parts later but here's a list of what's getting done to my front subframe.

PTFB upper control arms
PTFB lower control arms specifically made for a coil-over spring
PTFB coil-over conversion mounts
PTFB high clearance adjustable sway bar
PTFB HD steering rebuild kit
PTFB True-Steer upgrade
PTFB modified solid body mounts
PTFB Pro G-Braces
Viking double adjustable coil-over's
Turn One Performance Plus model steering box (12:1) with 235 T-bar
Prothane polyurethane motor mounts
John Paige lower control arm mount reinforcements
John Paige body mount reinforcements
John Paige upper control arm reinforcement brackets
John Paige cowl reinforcement for PTFB G-Braces
John Paige sway bar mount upgrade



I'm still waiting on my test wheel to show up but my main concern at this point will be the brake and hub clearance. I notice he R15 wheel has a special center cap on it. The current plan is to use PTFB's 12" or possibly 13" brake kit. Dave uses a Wilwood hub and caliper but he has a specially made caliper bracket and picks out his own rotor.



Some on this forum will probably find this interesting and now partially see why I just joined this forum. I found a pair of red '87 GTA front seats on my local craigslist last year and recently picked up a set of matching rear GTA seats. In '79 and '87, Pontiac offered carmine red interior so this ended up being a perfect match for my car. I just have to build a custom seat bracket for the front seats and also hinge mounts for the rear because the later style is a fold-down seat.

F-Body Int

Got some pictures posted today of the wheel I just purchased. Dave at the Pro-Touring F-Body shop got to test out his 13" brake bracket and caliper on this wheel. That setup fits in the wheel but it's extremely tight! I'm still up in the air on brake choice. I want the 13" brakes but 12" is lighter, cheaper, fits better, etc.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

We have a 89-92) 13" rear PBR brake setup in those wheels and the fins took off the stickon wheel weights. Jus have to move them a bit and good to go.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

No it was a 73.......

scooter

iTrader: (11)

I am sorry you went with Dave, I hope you actually get the parts you pay for. I have heard a LOT of horror stories about Dave and his business practices.

paul_huryk

I stand corrected!

F-Body Int

I'm not sorry. Dave's parts are some of the best out there and much of it is exclusive. No one else makes adjustable g-braces, adjustable sway bars and other parts like he does. Many of his parts are well thought out and have been well designed.

Since I live near Dave's shop, I've actually gotten to spend a lot of time there lately. I would even call him a friend of mine because I've known him since 2008-2009. I've talked him numerous times about the issue you bring up. Dave can build subframe connectors, control arms, g-braces and many other parts rather quickly. The problem PTFB and many other vendors face is getting their supply from others. Sometimes parts are done and fabricated but the holdup can simply be waiting for someone to do the powder coating. This is a reason why many companies in many industries have products go on backorder.

Recently Dave at Pro-Touring F-Body has been pretty busy so I've been spending my free time helping him keep up with orders before we start working on my subframe. Every time I go to the shop he is shipping parts so I can attest to seeing parts going out. Last weekend I helped package 5 sets of subframe connectors and fabricate a 4 point roll bar.

Look at another issue all of us early GM guys face. GM 600/670 and 800 steering boxes have sometimes been hard to get a hold of recently. Lee went out of business and now many suppliers simply don't have stock. Yes, you have AGR and some others but much of the time, vendors like this are issuing remanufactured boxes.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Yeah, I know some first hand experiences about Dave, and it has nothing to do with vendor issues, lol.

Good luck with all that

F-Body Int

I've had my experiences with Dave as well. I just don't post online complaints before contacting him. Everytime there has been an "issue" he's backed up his parts and corrected anything. I'm sorry you have to take a thread about wheels and make negative comments about my suspension.


Good luck with your builds. I see you have a lot in your signature.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Just trying to help out and make sure someone else doesn't get burned by someone with extremely poor business practices

F-Body Int

That's fine and I understand where you're coming from. The internet car forums are polluted with a lot of bogus information. Some forums unfortunately are heavily influenced by sponsorship. A lot of people are quick to publish issues that are actually their own mistakes. I hear and see the opposite side of the story with regards to PTFB.

Dave takes care of his customers as best as he possibly can. Again, I know this from experience. Last Saturday, I brought my spindles over to the shop since I live nearby. Without question, he took the spindles and had them modified within 20 minutes for a big brake kit. Later on that day, I helped with fabricate and install of a 4 point roll bar for another customer. Again, this was all day on a Saturday until dark. Now it's on me to pay him money for the front brake kit...next weekend.

I actually spoke with him yesterday. He's currently in Indiana until Sunday helping and supporting two customers at an autocross championship event. Going into the race, the car he sponsors that is driven by Travis Hartwell is in the points lead for the class championship. The other customer is a 19 year old kid with a '79 Camaro that is racing his first ever autocross.

I can go on and tell you more about stories he's told me from being on an ARCA pit crew or in racing engine shops but I'm not here to write his life story. Hopefully this paints a better view on that subject for you.






Back to the wheel subject. I just ordered another wheel yesterday. I'm on a budget so I'm pretty much doing one at a time. My next debate will be what tire size to go with. Here are some of my options...

1) 285/40 17 all around
-Small selection of summer performance tires only.
-Tallest tire of this group.

2) 275/40 17 all around
-Cheaper prices available.
-More tire types available (all season, summer, racing slicks)

3) 275/40 17 in front with 315/35 17 rear
-Requires spacers and wheel widening in the rear.
-Can be cheap or can be expensive depending on rear tire selection.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Well, I am glad you have had positive experiences with Dave, but unfortunately he has burned people really bad in the past.


I'd go with the 275/40-17 all the way around, but that is from experience. Those wheels are cast, so I don't know I would trust them to be widened in a racing situation. Mine were made in Germany, those were made in China, I got mine in the last run from Ronal

F-Body Int

True story and I am now +1 on this list...

Hate to bring this up now but it's been a year since I started paying PTFB for my suspension parts and the business has moved to Tennesse. He supplied me a few parts here and there over the past year but has not finished what I paid him for. I have yet to receive, coilovers, lower control arms, g-braces, sway bar brace, and other parts from Dave at PTFB. It's just a shame at this point because I know him personally and I've even helped him work in his shop. Every week is another excuse or story as to why suspension never gets finished. I'm just done waiting and listening to all the nonsense at this point.

I am now going with Global West for suspension.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Before you do, or if you haven't already. I would give Keith at http://customworksproducts.com/index.html the business first. He is almost always around and he will tell you straight up what he has in stock. He has also been racing his second gen for over 10 years.

F-Body Int

Like mentioned before, I ended up going with Global West this time around. They've been around a long time and were able to send upper control arms same day. The coil-overs and lower arms were on back order for a few days but they did not charge me. Right before they were able to ship the lowers and coil overs, my credit card information was stolen. I will post it on my build thread once I get get my new card and parts delivered. At this point it's just about having a good setup to assemble from a company that is able to provide like normal. It may not be newest or best thing out there but I have more faith in actually getting my parts at this point.

It's a shame because PTFB actually has great designs but Dave fails at providing people what they pay for on time. I stay away from Customworks for other rumored issues I've heard around the aftermarket supplier scene...no need for me to start drama without any personal experience there though.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Keith does not have supplier issues, I talk to him on a regular basis. Dave screwed him on a lot of stuff in the past, so his "issues" may have just been Dave in the first place. Keith makes most of what he sells now, or gets the parts made locally with a few exceptions. I have been to the shop (and I live in NJ) and helped out with some stuff there. I think the "rumors" are just that, I am not sure I have read anywhere that anyone has had issue with anything Customworks sells. Dave has had problems after problems for YEARS. You can ask just about any admin at NastyZ28.com about Dave and they can tell you horror story after story. It is a shame because I met Dave and hung out with him at SEMA for 3 or 4 days, like I saw him 16 hours a day for 3 days. He is a nice guy and has some great ideas he just has issues following through.

F-Body Int

Trust me, I know Dave more than most people. I worked at the PTFB shop this whole year up until he moved the business to Tennessee. I've heard his side of the story for issues. Besides the stories I've heard about, one of my biggest aggravations was showing up to do work at the shop but literally having nothing to do. Most of the time we would hang out rather than build or put together parts and that would really have me bothered. It would really bother me to see tubing I bent or cut up for assembly sit around on a bench untouched for weeks.

Most of my parts I have received from Dave weren't actually made by him unfortunately. He did give me upper control arms and they are badass but that took forever and a day to finish. I suspect the stuff he is supposed to make like my g-braces, sway bar brace, lower control arms, coilover hardware and other stuff will never be finished. I'm just done waiting and pushing for Dave to finish. I've called and sent text messages over the past couple weeks but get no response. It's aggravating when I know other people have been able to get in contact with him.

Because I'm a Firebird guy, I go on TAC and other Pontiac forums. I don't go on NastyZ28 or other Chevy only sites so I'm sure there's a whole other story you are familiar with that I don't know. On the Pontiac forums, Customworks doesn't get much, if any, attention while everyone praises Pro-Touring F-Body.

Keith has sold PTFB and I'm pretty sure Speedtech as well. I don't know why he doesn't have their stuff posted on his page anymore but I'm sure there's reasons for each of them. With regards to Dave at PTFB, I have heard his side of the story there but have not heard Keith...it's pretty bad. I just checked the Customworks website and see that he supplies Global West, Ridetech and SPC now. Either way, I see Keith and Dave's websites are pretty much copies of each other. Anyone can infer that there's a copy cat or failed business relationship there.

I hate that it has gotten personal at this point but I don't want to gamble anymore of my hard earned money on PTFB or the Chevy version of it (Customworks). Making $15/hr and working a second job to pay for my parts is a big loss for me to not receive my full $3k+ investment.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

I am not saying Dave copy's Keith or Keith copies Dave (not really sure why you're saying that at all), Dave likes to boast how he invented the G Braces, and that other people have copied him, well I think Mr Gouldstrand or someone made them in the 70s, so I don't know why Dave says it at all.

I know Customworks has sold other manufacturers parts and stopped selling for various reasons, some are quality related, some are cost or lead time related. Some parts the liability is too high for Keith to want to make. I get all that, but when YOU (PTFB) is supposed to be making and selling the parts and people don't get them, a LOT OF PEOPLE, it is a completely different story. Keith used to sell Daves parts up until it started costing Customworks money when Dave would not deliver parts. I know Keith had to pay for replacement parts from other vendors because Dave was taking too long, or not at all, there is no he said/she said here, it is customers complaining. I personally had to ship parts to Europe and there were supposed to be parts from Dave that never showed up. There is only ONE failed business model here, lol, and it's not Customworks.
I am sure you hear what Dave wants you to hear, but now you've seen first hand what happens when you buy from him. It is a sad state of affairs because people like that can kill a whole related business line among a specific car. I can't believe you're defending Dave at all after what you are saying about what you've seen, lol
Dave used to have his own sub-forum over at Nastyz28. but it appears that it has been removed, but Customworks and several other vendors have forums, that has to say something, and they don't even have to pay!

F-Body Int

Herb Adams made the original firewall "g-braces" that were a part of VSE...Alston made them for some time...Dave has since done an improved version...Hotchkis probably copied Dave's lead there. I've actually helped bend the tubes for Dave to build g-braces so he can supply customers this past year but he never gave me mine that I paid for. Again it'd be a shame when I'd see a bunch of bends sit in a bucket unfinished.

You can "lol" and say whatever you want. I'm not defending Dave or PTFB anymore. You recommended I go with Keith at Customworks started defending him after I already posted that I switched to Global West.

Also, please don't post "YOU (PTFB)" making it look like I am a employee. I have not received any money from him for my labor and I've paid full price for all my parts. I helped him this past year thinking it make him more motivated to finish my stuff. I'm just getting ripped off of time and money at this point.

Here you can see the same product pictures and formatting. Maybe both Dave and Keith, on their own, actually came up with black websites with green letters and the same product picture for 2nd gen f-body steering kits? Hopefully now you can see my point.

PTFB...


Customworks...