omnipotentgoku

iTrader: (1)

Anyone had experience with Scissor doors on third gens ? I've seen these scissor doors on the Evoluzione II kit car ( http://www.k1-styling.sk/default2.htm) , but id like to see them on a third gen, not... that. I can only assume that lighter doors are made, with hella shocks for em too... anyone know anything about this ?

jobryan26

I saw a picture of one from a car show that was floating around online so it's possible. To try that type of modification would require alot of time, money, and patience. As you might have noticed thirdgen's doors are very heavy (hence them being well known for sagging doors) so a fiberglass, carbon fiber, or etc. lightweight replacement door would be required. Because of the square edges around the lower part of the door this would require that the new lighter weight door have alot more curve along the bottom outer edge to compensate for the new opening angle of the door and the body of the car of course would have to be modified around the doors to fill gaps. These are just a few things that would have to be done not including designing the pivot point, and modifing the door latching mechanism. I hope this helps to answer your question.

John

omnipotentgoku

iTrader: (1)

I've seen a few ricers in town with these doors, but obviously the door on an eclipse will be a lot lighter than that of a camaro. I've tried to contact K1 about it, but they have yet to reply. I wish I could just get the door kit without the rest of the car. The mod looks tight , and I was truly considering it as well but I put some 2000 C5 rims on my 87 IROC and that spoke louder than hell for me. At any rate, anyone else have any ideas on this ?

IROC350TPI

I would think it would be easier to make a reverse opening hood than to convert our doors to scissor style...

Ryan

Jza

Except you can't get into the car through the hood.

omnipotentgoku

iTrader: (1)

Suicide doors on a camaro... thats almost sacreligious . Somethings need not be explored, that is one of them

theSteve

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TTA155

Soon???? Inquiring minds want to know!

theSteve

.

omnipotentgoku

iTrader: (1)

I't seems simple honestly, but biggest problem might be the lift . Hydraulic ? Electric? I found a guy locally who says he can do it for 1500. He's done it on hondas with difficulty due to the top door frame. Don't see why he couldn't do it on a thirdgen.

Metalifann

I'm pretty sure that there are structural members within the doors which is what makes them so heavy. If you want lighter doors, you may sacrifice much need structural integrity of the whole car.

scauffiel

Get fiberglass door skins and transfer manual window stuff into them if that's possible. If not, replace the glass with Lexan or something.

S.

FLYNLOW92rs

iTrader: (53)

I have a question.......

When your window is rolled up and you try to lift the doors up won't it cause problems?????

logikal6785

yes, so keep them down an inch =D

omnipotentgoku

iTrader: (1)

Despite what has been said, the door will need to pull out a little before it lifts. It cannot lift as it is now.

theSteve

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Matto'85TA

I contacted Euroworks to see if was possible to do it without the entire kit. All I got was a "No, no way."

theSteve

.

BAK12484

Really?? I always thought it was much harder to do this on cars without window frames. I remember back when I had my avenger, I was looking into doing something like this, and the main problem was that it didn't have a frame over the window, which caused a lot of stress to be put on the door itself, and the hydraulic lifts themselves.

Filip

I'm new here but I somehow stumbled on this thread and thought I could contribute. I've also read the other threads on the site about this topic so some of my comments might be related to other posters.

Door Types:
Scissor - Found on Lambo Diablos, Roadsters and other exotics. They just swing straight up, some as much as 75º. SIngle or dual shocks.

Butterfly - Found on McLaren F1 and others. Doors open to the 10 and 2 o'clock positions (when viewed from front). Sometimes the doors ave 2 hinge points, one close to the roof and one at the traditional place. The doors are almost like gull-wings

Door Weight:
Fully assembled Lambo doors are about 65lbs or so. If you could make a fiberglass copy of your doors it would help. I wouldn't use Lexan instead of glass because of DOT street legal rules and it scratches easily (from my experience). I know many of you are worried about structural support / impact bracing. Kevlar has a tensile strength of about 44,000psi and you can use woven sheets when fiberglassing your door (should be at least 3 ply). It's not cheap but it will be very strong. They run around $35 per sq yard. I don't know how much of a clearance you have between your window glass and your door skins but when making a fiberglass door you should also attach support framing - usually square tubed mild-steel stock. Two bars across the middle act as intrusion bars and the rest of the doors is built on a frame. I don't want to start a battle but if this is done right you can have a stronger door than you have now. Naturally it will cost you some. Of course you don't have to go fiberglass but I don't know how much your doors weigh.

Door hardware:
All you really need is a single hinge and a strut. There are a few Lambo kit car companies that will make you hinges for about $100-150 a piece. Personally I like this company's design:
http://www.iserv.net/~strdream/fiero.html

You can get struts at RV shops and off of certain cars. You will need to know your compressed and extended lengths as well as the force required, which will be more than the door's weight (especially if you locate the sturt at some weird point). If you look you can find 100lb struts. If not there are other mechanical and hydraulic options but they will cost you as well.

I think the biggest problem for you will be your door shape. Like someone posted earlier I think the bottom corner will hit the pillar when it tries to rotate. However, you might be able to find hinges that throw the door forward as it rotates up. You can see this on the new Cadillac concept car. Other than that, I don't know much about setting up a door to pop out before it opens up. Sorry I can't help you here. IMO I wouldn't use the "half door" approach for aesthetic reasons.

Here's a good link to see how the lambo guy's do it:
http://lambolounge.com/Body/Door/hin...door-hinge.htm

I know it's not exactly what you want but perhaps it can give you some ideas.

You can also find some good rubber boots to cover your whole assembly to give it a clean look.
http://www.minorrubber.com/

I plan to do a detailed writeup on this and post it on my site in a week or so - I just need to workout the math. If anyone has other info on this (I've seen the eclipse post) then please let me know.

JKmotoJoe22

found these pics in the outragious car topic.

JKmotoJoe22

here's the other one that I found

Filip

IMO suicide doors like above have no place on this type of car. I'm sure that these people spent some time on the conversion so I respect that but i don't think it serves any practical purpose. At least the scissor doors will let you open your door in tight places.

FLYNLOW92rs

iTrader: (53)

Here it is.....

A camaro with scissor doors...............it looks BAD@SS IMO.....

FLYNLOW92rs

iTrader: (53)

I know it's early in the morning and what not.......

so i might still be messed up from the EminEm concert i just got home from........who knows......but i noticed a few things about that pic............

But is half the door missing....... ........

and look at that wing.......

omnipotentgoku

iTrader: (1)

that car is barely distinguishable as a third gen imo

MetalliCamaroRS

iTrader: (15)

Looks like they cut the door in half though. Thats another way to save weight I guess

Filip

Actually they cut the door because of the pillar that is behind it. If you don't cut the door it will not be able to rotate. The bottom corner catches. I imagine it saves weight too but this was the primary reason. That's why in my earlier post I said it didn't look very good an shouldn't be an option.

A possibility is reshaping the doors - round them out at the bottom. You would then need to build up the pillars at the bottom to match.

D M N

why dont you cut it in half but vetricaly like staturns and make the back half suicide and the front lambo style that would be very original and eliminate alot of the problems or suicide lambo the whole door so when it goes up in opens backwards

pat12spe

Yuck, that's looks way too ghetto. I have too many seals as it is to worry about another one on the door like that.

blacksheep-1

try Autoloc, 1281 NE 25th #N, dept PHR, Hillsboro, OR 97124
1-800-873-4038
or: www.autoloc.com
I'm not a big fan of this, but at least these look like a well engineered piece.

LowCamaro

i think adding something custom to a thirdgens door is awesome! Be it shaved, lambo, butterfly or suicide. I was planning on going suicide with my doors. As just posted, autoloc makes a suicide kit, you just need to do alot of re-enforcing with suicides.

gearhead0384

iTrader: (7)

All I have to say is :nono: !! Its that simple.

Kevin

anubiscougar

ok... i thought you couldn't really do lambo style doors on a 3rd gen, i wanna know how that guy did it....

if anyone knwos that person, have them contact me, rofl.

anubiscougar

good links on the lambo style door stuff btw, thx. & autolock makes a stronger 250 lbs motor thingy, so add the two.. i see why not..

one thing i thought about though, the windows.. they'd really get in the way, but, BUT!!! solution.!!!!

if any of you have seen the new ford thunderbirds, they have the type of window setup we do... and when you open the door, the window goes down a bit, close it, it goes back up!.. why not get some electronics, to do this, like, unlock the car, windows go down, voom!, an inch.. and then, open/shut doors, lock, VOOM! back up!..

It's all very possibly, now that i've seen some of these hinges, and that autolock makes a powerful pushy thingy.

MrDude_1

theres a trick im amazed noone here mentioned.


how they do it with all the ricers and other cars:


its not just one arc... the door moves OUT then rotates upward...


and the weight has nothing to do with it..... you can always use a gas strut to counter the weight, then use either a light electric motor, or your hand.... just like fiero lambo kits.


movie of the door opening so you see what i mean:

http://www.autoloc.com/quicktime/LamboCOM.mov



their kits:
http://www.autoloc.com/products/lambo.lasso

D M N

Interesting

anubiscougar

ya, i know, it just swings out like normal, then goes up... sorry, but that's too cheap for me.. if it goes out then up, i want it to do it by itself, not me push it out. & you can tell that's what he did, espically when he pulled it back in.. pfft.

JeffW

sounds like a job for Monster Garage

get jesse on the phone!

i would think that hydralic pistons since they can be custom made for length and are adjustable with placement would be able to lift a stock door if the hinges are done right. simple electric hyd pump would run em sweet.

as for the hinge i would guess that the top hinge would have to fall away from the car when released so the top of the door goes out away from the roof line. the hydralics coule pull em back in tight and then need a latch system.

sounds like it would be fun to do anyway.

MrDude_1

that would be waay overkill


a simple electrical linear actuator coudl do it.


however, i HATE the idea of relying on a powered device (regardless of the power type) to get out of the car.

and i like to be out of my car in less then a sec... i dont like waiting for the door to open. and a automatic system couldnt open fast for saftey reasons.

anubiscougar

agreed, i want it to be fast & quick, painless, simple... But.. :-/ duno how you could, less the motor would let it go up fast.. talk w/ the guys at autoloc and see if they could make one go faster & support the weight still...

Also, instead of having it go out & then up.. how about do the windows thing like i said, til the hing this way \car/ (the \ /'s being the hinges).. and then have the doors go up & out like that..?.. fix the lock on the door & all that.. so it could work like that.. i see no reason why you couldn't do that with enough time & effort...$$..

MrDude_1

if it was a extremely easy bolt in thing, id do it on the vert just because it would mean that i could get out of the car easier without hitting the car next to me with my door.



but i cant see me putting in the time to do somthing like that....

anubiscougar

it's quite alot of time, ya.. i agree. BUt.. that's why autoloc has you swing the door out first, rofl... so it's just bolt on, do a few wires & go.. ya know?

armac

One thing that I do think is being overlooked and could be very important is the alignment of the door with the body. The counter weight of the door would take alot of time and work and would not be over come by just a gas shock it would almost have to have some kind of motor or torsion bar to take most of the weight. Being a Delorean owner I can tell you gullwing door are neat but are alot of work and tend to have alot of alignment problems. I would tend to think a make shift set up would suffer from the same problems but would make a great show stopper car.

Matto'85TA

What if the door sorta popped outward while remaining parallel, or slid out some then rotated. Sorta like this:
l=car I=door > = slides out
Door closed:
l
l
I
l
l

door open:

l
l
> I Then rotates at this point
l
l

Basically the door stays parallel with the side of the car. It it slides/pops out enough to clear the fender(while remaining parallel), then rotates up.

Then to close it will rotate down then you pull it closed.

If this would work, I dont think the hinge will be the problem, I think the a way to support the door would be.

I think a car actually uses this method, some new exotic, not sure though, maybe its all in my head:lala:

anubiscougar

it does, the egerzo something... *looks up name*

Koenigsegg, that's it.. it pops out, then goes up by turning.

BUT!! those doors are very light, gotta take that into consideration, the hing would be a problem for us. all that weight... gonna bend something somewhere.

MrDude_1

why is everyone so paronoid by door weight!?

does anyone here even know the actual weight of the door?

MasterEvilAce

it's heavier than average, that's for sure

less than a 2nd gen.. more than a 1st gen (in my experience)

MrDude_1

streached fireo kit car doors are "heavier then avg" too...


my steel hood weighs alot more then my 82s SMC hood.
however, because the gas shocks used to match them were correct, they offset the weight and they seemed to weigh the same.


weight is not a issue. the design is.



in anycase, its pointless unless you design the door not to stick out more then about 3" or so.... because then i could open it in a parking spot easier...


anything more, and it REALLY would be just for show.