Quote: Originally posted by AllGoNoShow Corvette- Whose brand of valves did you install? Ferra.

Sorry I missed this one. No the tranny was fine before the heads swap. and get this I have a Hi flow cat Random tech and the first layer of honey cone was broken and sitting in there side ways.. Now the new tranny is in the car and a new Pro Tourqe 2800 custom built converter. New Random tech cat is on the way. I expect to see a low 12 run. That 12.5 was with a slipping tranny a cheap convertor and a messed up cat. Oh and a big speaker box in the back. That will come out before I race it on Friday. Oh and for tires. I will need some drag radials.

Did you get .100" longer valves, Corvette0096? What did you pay for the Ferreas?

Here is the part # the shop used f5025-f5027 $69-$67 + .100 on the height.

I went to get spark plugs today. Luckily I am good friends with the guys at the parts store. He said that the C59C is a very cold race plug they usually run in alcohol engines. He said that with 10:1 I needed a hotter plug. I ended up getting a NGK plug, BKR6E, its a standard plug, only thing special about it is it's a long reach plug. I got home and looked at the heads and they look like they take a tapered plug not a plug with a washer. On protopline's website they recomend a V59C champion plug. I called to see what the difference was and the V59C is a short reach plug. I emailed protopling again and asked them what was going on. I need to know which one I need before I crank the engine over.

I run the aluminum pro heads part # 123 4000 00S - K2. The plugs suggested are a soon to be discontinued part #'s from champion: C57C to a C59C. The info at pro lists a C57C as a start for alky engines and the C59C as a start for gas. Those are both a 14mm thread, long reach (.750" + -), washer seat, 5/8 hex (wrench) plug. I crossed the C59C (the hotter of the two) to a NGK 5238 (R5671A-9). They are 1.79 each from NAPA which has the best price on them. I do not know if these are the right heat range yet. While researching plugs I came accross some info which lists the plug for a ZR-1 corvette, it uses a plug which is dimensionally the same, but I am wondering if its heat range would be better. One can only guess that ZR-1 plugs are expensive. I may buy a set as an experiment to see how they run in my 9.9:1 motored B4C with the 412 (see sig). This information represents a weeks worth of research online and in part store plug books. Please be sure your heads are the ones that use a C59C sized plug.

Note: The aluminum 200cc Pro, and the cast iron 200cc Pro call for 2 different plugs.


-The Aluminum calls for what is above, the C57C.
14mm, 3/4" reach, 5/8" hex head, copper core racing plug


-The Cast Iron calls for a V59C.
14mm, .460 " reach, taper seat, 5/8" hex head, copper core racing plug


-A standard Autolite 25 is a:
Resistor plug, 14mm, .460 " reach, taper seat, 5/8" hex head, projected tip, copper core


If you aren't running nitrous, and you want to hear your stereo, *and other drivers on the road want to hear theirs* Use a standard Autolite type plug that has a resistor. All street plugs have resistors since like the 60's.

I don't know what you aluminum guys will have to do. I've got the Irons!

I am running the NGK FR5. These are a common plug that you can find at any parts store.

For a small plug reference guide to ProTopline heads go to www.proshaver.com and download the Proshaver catalog it is in pdf format and look at page 68, it has a spark plug cross reference for 7 different plugs. Example

5/8 Champion NGK AC Delco Autolite
Taper V59C 5763-9 AC44TS 132

3/4
Flat C57C R-5118-M-10.5 none 3933

I tried to cut and paste it but only got garbage.

Jeff

LilJay, I originally went with a different plug, but ordered the V59C's. When compared the two plugs, there is a big difference in reach. The V59C plug's electrode is almost inset in the threaded body. You need to make sure the reach is exactly what Pro Topline recommends otherwise the intake charge will not light off right over the plug it may be off center and you may not acieve full combustion.

Good research work any how. The link he showed (page 68) shows the conversion to other brands for C = washer seats and V = taper seats as well.

I have a friend that is really screwed. I told him my spark plug story and he out did me! He has heads that take a washer seat just like our aluminum ones (14mm/.750" long reach/ 5/8 hex/ washer seat). But when he put his huge domed pistons in they destroyed his electrodes while turning it over by hand. His current solution is to use a bunch of indexing washers stacked together because currently he (and now I) cannot find any shorter reach, 14mm, 5/8 hex, washer seat plugs. Remove any one of those requirements and BAM lots of plugs. Sucks to be him.

B4Ctom, did you figure out if those NGKs were the correct heat range?

For those using 200cc heads has any one measured the intake port opening? In the Proshaver catalog they list the opening of the intake port as 1.230 x 2.100. From reading posts here and else where, the Felpro 1206 will work on 200cc heads but is much larger than the port. Mr Gasket lists a 1.25 x 2.130 intake gasket, part #5821 in their Ultraseal line that sounds like a better fit. Anyone tried the Ultraseal gasket or found a better fitting gasket for the 200cc heads?

Also, has anyone cc'd their chambers when you had the heads flowed? I am curious to see what kind of variance there is.

Thanks
Jeff

For what its worth, I am using a 1206 felpro gasket on my 220cc heads and the gasket is bigger than the port. I hope the intake seals against them. I have a set of 1205 but am going to take back because I didn't use them.

Jason

On my Iron 200cc heads, a felpro 1205 fits almost perfect with only a tiny little bit of gasket in the intake port.

I had to use a felpro 1205 for the HSR, if my free digital camera can squeek out a decent pic of the gasket on the head I'll post it.

I little info on NGK plugs.

Stock L98 heat range is a 4.
LT1, L31, LS1 heat range is 5.

The greater the number the colder the plug, NGK standards.

For any of you guys running alluminum heads in a NA motor that is near stock to mild performance build run the FR5, level 5 heat range.

For those who are beyond mild: stroked, big cam, higher compression, etc... start with the BKR6E-11, level 6 heat range.

Both of the above are 14mm, 3/4" reach, 5/8" hex, gasket seat, ISO length, resistor, projected tip, V-power (v-grooved center electrode)

For other then NA get a colder plug with the above specs.

What about our Cast Iron guys running an NA Bigger cam, higher compression motors?

In an Autolite or Delco number perferably.

I put a set of NGKs in my '87's old 305 and got worse gas milage than with a set of autolite 24platinums.

I should be getting my 195 AFR heads within the next couple weeks.... gawd the waiting sucks!!! Be interesting to see what they look like after reading through all this hehe. They're not going on the 305, I'm getting parts together for a 350 build up Only 1,800 more dollars to go before the new engine is in the car! lol

My 190cc AFR's work great, I managed to kill a new Lightning with ease at 9.4:1CR and I am still running the stock TPI intake/runners and a small cam (XE256H-10) to match them. I cant wait to see how things change when I put in the LPE intake/runners and the XR276HR-14 cam next year, or when the ATI charger go's on the following year after that.

Corvette- Which series of Ferra valves did you use? The real expensive COmpetition Plus valves($25 each), the 6000 series Competition ($15) or the 5000 Series Hi- Performance ($11).

TTT....Look Above

Cheers! Good choice on switching to the 350 and using the AFR's, you'll be happy. Let us know how your buildup comes along.

Joe

5000 series..Sorry for the delay..

Thanks Corvette. I may just have to copy what you did. I'm realizing more and more valves can make or break head flow charactersitics. They have to flow more then my world stock replacment small valved heads. Plugging your flow numbers into DDyno with my tiny 203/212 cam I see almost a 30hp gain with the 180cc Pro Toplines...hmmmm for 750 bucks or so.

I might just have to buy another set except this time bare and build them myself like you did, sounds like the right way to go to ensure high quality.

PS- Did you use the +.100 valves like Pro Topline does when you assembled them? The only reason I can think of that they do that is to get more available lift before coil bind but my cam only has like .440 lift so I don't think i would need them???

The numbers I have on the build sheet are f-5027 and f-5027 I think they are +.100

Yep they are, I checked into it. Did you use the f-5025 for the exhaust valve?

Sorry I just want to recreate exactly what you did so I can see similiar results.

ttt ^

I like this alot! it was emailed to me because this is like a N/A version of my blower motor!

http://www.airflowresearch.com/artic...le03/A3-P1.htm

They just did a polish on the chambers and that was about it. Ran the valves posted above. and they cc the heads and milled them to 60cc. And they used a spring locators.. Nothing magic..

They still haven't got here, the AFR machine shop took last week off So maybe this week or next grrr. Just bought some Pro Magnum roller rockers and main studs for the new engine so it's getting closer Shooting for next month to be driving around with the 350 in but anything can and probably will happen.

i have a set of pro 200cc. i tried a 1205 but it was to short. the 1206 was the right height but to wide so i port matched the 1206 to the head and blew threw the sides of the runners. patched them up with lab metal and going on the dyno today. after the break in on autolite AR3932 iam going to try ngk R5671A-10 and champion c75cx. engine is a 383 10.5:1 forged pistons, air gap itake, demon 750, msd digital 6, hvc coi,l pro biliet dis. , msd 8.8 wires, comp hd roller lifters push rods rocker arms and guide plates. i will post results of plug test.

I know what you mean. I ended up just using 1206 gaskets but I made the heads as wide as a 1205 like the edelbrock I used for a superram lower and made the edelbrock as tall as the proaction 200cc. They are now matched, and the intake gasket cant cause any blockage by slipping into place, but they will need to remain together from now on due to the odd sizing, and it left allowable but minimal material at the tops of the ports on the edel lower.

Note: this may only be the case with the aluminums, there have been many with no such problems with the irons.

I wish I would have known how tall the ProTopline ports were before I bought them, its going to be almost impossible to match them to the StealthRam ports.

I still don't know what you guys are talking about. My 200cc Iron Pros Fit the stealth ram beautifully.

Don't have a picture of the 1205 gasket on the HSR but here is one of it on the heads:

New Times with the Protolines and 219, S/R. 350 CID. 12.300@113 MPH. 383 build up on the way. Broke 4 pistons in my ZZ4 Crate...

its not the irons its the aluminums I will change my post to reflect that.


edelbrock lower and proaction 200cc (ports are the height they were delivered with)
http://outlawperformance.com/images/B4Cstuff/

Oh that sucks. How did you break four pistons?

I was racing the car with a helmet on and I thought I was getting some pinging, Well after the race I noticed some smoke coming out of the engine bay. I opened the hood and there was my PVC valve out of the valve cover. I thought did I leave that out and put her back in and raced it again, Same thing after the race, PVC valve was out again. I started the car with the Valve out and it was like a frieght train, The air could be felt from 3 feet away. Here the funny part of the whole thing, I raced a so called modfied 03 Cobra. I still ran a 12.4 and spanked him. On 4 broked pistons

Now the new build up is going all 4340 383 6 " rods Srp Forged pistons. Same heads. Should be in the mid 11's. The reason why this happen is the ZZ4 Came with a 8" Damper and the timing marks are fixed on the timing chain cover, I had to run a 6-3/4 Dampner. Timing the car was always a guessing game when the pointer is that far away.

I have a new timing cover now and a billet pointer with a ATI Super dampner. This will not happen again and yes I will tap the knock sensor and make sure it pulls timing out when she is back together.

Why did you have to run a different dampner? You could have put it at TDC and used timing tape, after you know TDC the rest is cake.
Good luck on your new build up.

The whole rotaing asembley is getting balanced and the owner of the shop siad that the Fluid dampers are Junk. This is a local shop that is well known in the area.

This was taken of fluid dampers web site.

Why can't Fluidampr or Streetdampr be spun on a balance machine?
Balancing a crankshaft with the Fluidampr or Streetdampr is not recommended. The Fluidampr (or its damper ring) and the Streetdampr contain an inertia ring that can rotate inside. This inertia ring is balanced to very close tolerance specifications at the factory but may not be to perfect "zero" balance. When the damper is spun on a balance machine, this inertia ring may rotate inside the damper and the operator may be chasing this small imbalance while attempting to balance the crankshaft.

When the damper is installed and run on a combustion engine, the shear forces on the silicone fluid inside the damper from the torsional moments of the engine crankshaft, centers the inertia ring on its bearings. A balance machine does not generate torsional shear forces and the inertia ring may not be completely centered in its bearing clearance gaps. ( IT WILL BE CENTERED AND IN BALANCE WHILE RUNNING ON AN ENGINE )

Where did you guys get your topline heads? website/phone number would be great. thanks.

I got mine bare off of eBay from a company called Yoder Racing. Sorry, no website. I see sets for sale in the classified section of this website from time to time.

I just pulled a set of AFR 195's out of the box that are CNC ported and they really are some of the ugliest things have have ever seen. The invoice was there too.......$1976.00 for supposedly street heads. Now I grant you they would be very pretty after they were reworked, but for that money I would expect to see beauty. Not ripple wall ports.
(Just my observation)
Sorry if this disturbs anyone.
Don>>>

Ditto, havent port matched it yet. My protopline(200cc)/HSR was off by 1/16 to a full 1/8" on more then a few cylinders. The 1206 gasket barely seals the intake to my heads at the top. I was down right scared to try and get it to match, probably have someone else do it.

dont gasket match the 1206 to the pro 200 head. it wont seal and leak. i had a set of pro 200 aluminum lightings. they were complete garbage. with the money it cost me to get those heads right i could of got afr 210 cnc ported. which i ended up with anyways because the pros were junk. pay once or twice.

Please elaborate.

exhaust guides blew out after 15 dyno pulls. had bronze guide material in the oil. intake runner blew out after gasket matching to 1206 ( not enough material inside the runner). had to patch them with jb weld. valve train geometery was so far off due to poor casting and aligment that the pushrod fell off on one dyno pull.

There really isn't a point to running aluminum unless you are changing your compression way high or have a knock problem.... or are REALLY into weight saving.

My Pro 200cc Irons were BEAUTIFUL and the HSR/IRON combo with a Felpro 1205 is PERFECT.

Don't know what you guys are talkin about with the aluminums, they are the same style casting.

I got my from Summit fully assembled.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...all/index.html

Chevy High Performance did an article on the Pro Lightning 180cc Irons, dynoed w/383 10.4cr motor and flow tested the heads. They made 411hp @ 5,400 rpm. Stock vortec's could do that.



on the intake side at .400-inch lift they flow 203cfm compared to the advertised 243cfm.

hmm 40cfm just disappeared...

Curiously, Pro Topline own Vortec 906's do better than the 180's. I would think you have to attribute some to the Vortec high port design.