ok, im really confused with ALL the ignition systems out there.. Who makes better ignitions? Im thinking about getting the MSD 6A system, how much does that cost with EVERYTHING i need? and what do u guys use and recomend? all or any information you can give will help me out ALOT!! ------------------ - David 88' GTA 5.7L TPI MODS---> air foil, K&N, Shift Kit, 180* therm, TB bypass, Gutted CAT, Flowmaster 80 Series Muffler added to Unkown CatBack, Ported Intake http://www.geocities.com/david_angel_16

ok i did some research, and i see that the MSD is just a little bit better, more primary voltage, and it seems they are very simular on other aspects such as multiple sparks each lasting 20*. however i think the Crane set up says that it delivers multiple sparks under 2000 RPMS, (???) while MSD has multiple sparks under 3000? is this correct, if so then wouldn't that mean MSD is better. but is it worth the extra money on a almost stock engine, and soon to be moderatly modified?

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- David
88' GTA 5.7L TPI MODS---> air foil, K&N, Shift Kit, 180* therm, TB bypass, Gutted CAT, Flowmaster 80 Series Muffler added to Unkown CatBack, Ported Intake

http://www.geocities.com/david_angel_16

Yeah, I think MSD is the best ignition.Do you need it on a stock engine? Probably not.I mean, you probably won't notice any difference in performance, as long as the original ignition is in good shape.
I would get the good aftermarket distributor (MSD,Accel,Mallory,Etc)and wait until later to add an MSD6 or whatever.(The MSD6AL is nice,with rev limiter)
My 2cents
-Rich-

Well, I've had two Crane HI-6s quit on me. The only reason I'm still using one is that they keep giving me new ones.

Hey Maccanahay
How many did you go through?I've
had mine sence 97 and have not had
one problem at all.I like how the rev
limiter works better than the MSD's.

I had two up and die. The first somehow got water in it and the second crapped out for no reason after only 4 months. It's surprising to me. I went with Crane, because the majority of people I knew werre running them instead of MSD and had had no trouble with them. I also like how easy the rev limiter works.

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Feel free to donate to the Matt Needs An Engine That Runs fund
82 Camaroead 350
TH350 tranny with 2500 stall, Eibach Pro Kit, SLP 1 3/4" headers with 3" Flowmaster exhaust

I like how the HI-6S has two rev limiters...one for staging and one for upper limit. I also hooked up my new TRC-2 timing retard knob for nitrous. I think this box is better simply because it is packaged with two rev limiters, requires only a simple addition for boost retard, and it has the ability to hold limits with more precision. I run a MSD ProBillet Distributor and an Accel Super Coil, so obviously I'm not very partial.

I have the Crane box too and I am also very heppy with it. I also liked their installation kit. Came with everything to make it easy.

I run the Crane Hi-6 on my '88, never had any problems at all. And like said, the rev limiter is about the easiest and is very smooth. I like it alot and will probobly buy another one for my '92.

the best part about the crane is its digital, and inexpensive.....thats the one thing that i hate about MSD....everything they make is analog

i've had bolth systems on my car and made no difference I'm making 400+hp:lala:

The accel 300+ claims to be more powerfull then the MSD and comes with a super coil. Is it as good as they claim? I need an ignition and have decided on 4 to choose from, Holly, Accel, MSD or Crane. Any help on narowing down my choiceswould be great.

Add me to the list of those that dislike the Crane box. I had the 1st one work for over a year trouble free. Then the rev limiter kept kicking in way early. I had it set on 7200 and it would bounce off the limiter around 5500-5700 RPM. They gave me a new box w/ an "improved" rev limiter. That box lasted 4 months, the car was idling in the shop... all of a sudden I had smoke billowing out from under the hood. They gave me a 3rd one, the power LED lit up - but the car would not start until I unhooked the box. I went over the wiring several times... at that point I had enough - and went back to the old faithful MSD box.

msd specializes in ignitions as we all know. this tells me that they are the best. i have a 6A box and it is great. better than any other ignititon i've ever had. i got mine for 120$$ and all i needed was an extra long wire to go from the box to the cap.

No offense to anyone that has 'em...

But BESIDES the built in rev-limiter, what's the benefit to running an MSD or other aftermarket ignition box? I don't see it...

I've run just HEI for years, and the last few years, I've run DUI stuff from Performance Distributors... I figured if anyone would make or recommend an ignition box, they would...call their tech guys and talk with 'em... Bet you'll end up ordering their stuff and no box

Hell, he even talked me OUT of ordering a totally new distributor from him... I told him I recently replaced my distributor, and he said it would be wasted money!! I used their coil / cap / rotor and module...and he said I would definitely notice a difference, and if I wasn't satisfied, send it back.

I AM, and so I'm keepin' it.


Not affiliated with them in anyway...it's just nice to find a company that isn't solely concerned with making a $ and will actually back their products....



Later

there are several benefits.....MSD stands for multiple spark discharge, below 3000rpm each plug fires multiple times on every power stroke.....this leads to better throttle response and a cleaner more complete burn...above 3000 rpm there is only one spark, but its much longer and hotter than you could get without a capacitive discharge box. they provide much better spark at high rpm as well over an HEI setup aftermarket or not, and most other ignition systems (except a magneto)

also, they are easy to add things to, like additional rev limiters, retards, and other controls. when used with a high quality distributor they are also alot more accurate.

they are also extremely reliable

Okay...now maybe I posted wrong..I'm not a newbie looking for a "technical" explanation. I understand the THEORY of why a MSD type box is better.

However, I've yet to EVER SEE any HP or TQ benefits to them. And to be honest, most of the experiences I've seen, where someone bolted on a MSD, Crane etc ignition box, and WERE pleased...they usually did a full tune up, and were replacing high mileage factory parts.

I remember a dyno test one of the major mags did a few years back...they tested a rebuilt stock HEI, DUI HEI, MSD distributor, ignition box etc on the same engine...

The difference between each was nowhere near enough to justify the cost of the parts on a $$ for HP basis.


The HEI has a rep for not firing well at higher RPM's...well my HEI w/ DUI coil and module will rev with ease to 6500 RPM ...well past what the TPI HP peak is...


Now the main benefit of the box ignitions I see is rev limiters...to be honest, if I was running nitrous like I did in several previous project cars, I could see the benefits of the box....

But for a street driven car?


No flame... just wondering if these are like alot of other mods...we spend $$$ and time to install them and of course we feel like we gained something...we anticipate the gain.

After getting the IROC back to the track after the T5 swap, I may swap in a MSD box / setup just to see if there are any differences in performance....would be interesting to me anyway.



Just my 2 cents

look at this way,

people are not retarded (in general) and if the boxes werent any better than stock ignition then no one would use them. Not only is this not the case, but quite the opposite. Besides the fact that alot of race teams use these boxes. Race teams dont do things because someone told them it was good, they use high quality proven parts that are reliable and perform very well. so theres nothing wrong with wanting to use the same parts on your car (street driven or not) that the professionals use.

with a higher compression motor a CD ignition is also much more effective than it would be on a lower compression engine.
if it would fit under my firewall id have a magneto just like the one on our 482ci blown alcohol chevy. there is no more powerful ignition you can get, and its extremely accurate....as well as it doesnt require any external controls or power to operate.....all it needs is a ground. the higher the RPM the more powerful the spark.

I use an MSD 6al box, and i will tell you that it fires alot hotter and stronger than an HEI does. as long as you use a good coil. hook both up on an oscilliscope and see for yourself. its not like no ones ever checked before, lets be realistic.

so to answer your question......

is it better or worthwhile for you to use an msd box or other brand??? on a 350tpi motor probably not. there isnt enough radical things going there to justify the need for a multiple spark, really hot spark or long spark duration. And that type of engine is never gonna see enough revs to run out of spark on an HEI.

does it matter on my 383 with 11.4:1 compression at 6800rpm? it sure does. The compression makes it difficult to get a good burn without a really good spark, especially at higher RPM. A more accurate ignition (and distributor) is also helpful to keep timing in check and prevent detonation with higher RPM.

Keep in mind that these boxes are primarily intended for carb engines...with computer control in an EFI setup you wont benefit as much from it.

Okay, good points. And yup, been around racin' for awhile too...and sure crank fired stuff is great...if it's a full out race car, like you stated.

As for roundy round racers...they must be good huh? That's why they wire two of 'em in series in case one fails? Sorry couldn't resist...


I see your point, but it looks like we're agreed... on anything street driven, and say anything that does not regularly rev over say 6500 RPM, then are we agreed, that all the other ignition components being in good shape, the CD boxes are not big in gains vs. $$ spent.


And I also agree that higher compression ratio engine require a better, if not stronger, spark to light the mixture than a comparable low compression engine.... but the race car I helped build never has a problem with HEI, but that's just opinion I guess. Does a 13.5:1 426 small block count?


We actually tried an MSD box...it looks like now, since it's torn down and looks like it may be getting a 4 stage nitrous hit, we're looking at a direct fire system....no distributor is cool



Later
Chris

Ill stick with MSD. My plugs would always foul using the crane, with no changed to the motor or jetting i installed my new MSD ignition box and now my plugs are always white.

I went with a blower and it has no trouble keeping up. It seems to be very reliable, and if it DOES fail, you can send it to MSD to be fixed and re-furbished for like $40.

They also have great customer support. I accidently screwed up the wiring on my box and they sent me a free set of wires for it. I lost my rev limiter chips and they sent me a free one. I got the wrong magnetic pickup extension with mine and they sent me a free one. I found an old rusty Pro-billet in a trash can, sent it to them, they charged $67 to refurbish it and I sold it on ebay for $220.

Msd has been great to me.

msd is a litle more money but i think its worth plus i have a red car, i know how dumb that sounds

A benefit I see to it is kinda odd...

My dad's 95 Mustang GT got stolen last year. He got it back, but the motor was destroyed. T5 tranny, and the idiot that robbed it took it for a joyride and overrevved the living heck out of it. If he had a rev limiter, the engine would've been fine.

Also... that's the car I learned how to drive stick on. I overrevved a few times with the clutch down. Fortunately, I didn't get past 4500RPM, but still... That's only cuz I know how a throttle in a real car works. Imagine a newbie 16 year old kid driving dad's muscle car and learning stick? Eeeeek...

my dad taught me how to drive stick on a 40,000 lb registered GMC 7000 series.....he said here, drive. lol

so i'm not theonly one who learned how to drive a sick on a truck.
i learned on na 94 ford boom truck w/ 435cat+12spd

I learned on a 70-somthing caddilacc fleetwood with a 500 CI
during the winter, with one of those cast iron house radiators in the trunk
for weight (like it needed more sheesh) and a 93 mercury minivan.
Big wheels for a beginner

but since you guys are bringing out the big guns

ill have you know i was running full size caterpillars at
the age of 6 (bulldozers/dump trucks/ backhoes)

its good to have a cool uncle who works for the highway dept.

so to bring this back on topic, basically on a stock 350tpi what should be replaced? ive been wanting to do ignition work so i was thinking a new distributer, coil and wires from MSD. so whats this "box" that doesnt improve anything all about?


hah just realised this is from 2003...

MSD till i die