OK ... wow alright right now on my engine...i THINK these are the heads i have.... "cylinder heads: cast iron with 64cc chambers. this head include 1.94" intake and 1.50" exhaust valves, with straight type spark plug holes. they are non-swirl heads.." that came with a sheet when i bought my car about my engine.....and i was just looking at jegs online...and i looked at the cast iron vortec heads and this is wat is said abuot them..... "Material: Cast Iron Intake Port Volume: 170cc Combustion Chamber Volume: 64cc Vale Diameter: 1.94'' Int./ 1.50'' Exh. Spark Plugs: Straight" so im assuming i could very well have vortec heads???? could this be true?

when i get home im going to check the casting numbers and all that im just kinda looking for reassurance because i wana know i have some decent parts on my 350

i don't think you have vortec heads, i've seen pics of your motor before and i if i recall correctly, the intake you have is a standard small block intake manifold with the 12 bolts. two in front, two in the middle and two in back on each side. a vortec intake only has 8 that go in straight down as opposed to perpendicular with the cylinder head as the old style do.

fair enough...even though your bustin my balls...lol im jk..nice seeing u havent talked to u ina while...ill post the best pics of my intake so u can take another close look....BUT lets say i dont have "vortec" heads, would mine be close to the performance of them since everything basically matches? or does the name vortec give it the extra HP? lol sorry had to give that smart a55 comment..... but here are pics of the intake...

and the other ...

i hope to the sweet lord i have vortecs

Boring old stock 23 degree cast iron heads.

thats no good.....damnit.....so their still crappy even tho they match the vortec heads combustion chambers and valve diameters? that sucks for me

Despite having a few similar dimensions, vortecs are a completely different animal, with raised intake ports.

i feel like crying....well whateeeva....plenty fast for me right now....once i get a job and stuff.....ill rebuild it....OR even better....geta nice BEAST under the hood....i dont even know if im guna even bother putting a new intake/carb on it

i still have a little hope.!!!! my uncle who bought the car whose also a very good mechanic is positive their aluminum heads..and he talked to the owner about it and everything and he keeps telling me to take care of that engine because their aluminum heads....so i guess when i get back home ill take the valve covers off and take a peak at the casting numbers....i hope their lil stock heads

If the sheet that came with your car says cast-iron, it doesn't sound like they'd be aluminum.

i knooooow...i hope my uncles right though...i have a mild enough cam....i think the heads are holding me back on the real performance...i probably wont even bother buying the intake/carb now....grr

if there is rust ANYWHERE at all on the heads, they are not aluminum. cast iron, when clean and rust free is a much darker gray then aluminum, but when exposed to the elements without engine paint of some sort, it begins to rust almost immedietly.

oh, and good to see you too bro! hope your doing well...i'm alright for the moment, just workin' alot. really thinkin about giving up on all this small block chevy business and going on to bigger and better things.

Power comes from the heads. The cam will determine the shape of the power curve. Every other part loses power. The trick is to pick the parts that will lose the least.

That's not to say that you need to change the heads first though.

for sheez nova...u should get a nice *** 383 or something if u wana talk about power u should see my bros mustang....331 stroker supercharged put like 520 hp to the rear and like 415 torque its a bad *** motor...but yah i think im guna start savin up for an LS1 swap that would be niceeeee. what u thinking of getting?

im not completely lost on my 350 just cause the heads, in the future i may just completely rebuild it! the engine only has about 30k on it, so its fairly new...i could always rebuild it again?

BUT i will check the casting numbers as many of you have told me to do....and i will get back to u on these mysterious heads! ill hope for the best

no way dude. a 383 is still a small block.

i'm thinkin' more along the lines of my buddies 396 bbc he has sittin in his shop...

oh, and the 350 can be made to have big power. i might look into some dart iron eagle heads w/ 200cc intake runner, a holley street dominator intake/750 double pumper and an xe274 cam. that would easily net you low 12's.

If you're going to go through the trouble of doing a BBC swap, why a 396? That's like swapping in an SBC 262 to replace a V6.

cause it's available and i want a basically stock bbc. a bit more cam, a bit of head work and we're looking at around 450hp that is totally streetable. i want to be able to drive the car everyday still...not necessarilly a daily driver, but something that could still drive everday if i wanted to.

and i think it would be cool to have a 396. the can be made to produce big power with little effort. not buidling a 9 sec car here, just something in the low 12's, high 11's.

for sure that would be bad ***! i dont know still 17 here i have plenty of time to make my mind up! i think it would be fun to rebuild the 350...but LS1's are the sha-bang these days i guess....good luck with the 396 u gotta make a thread and show pics if ur guna swap it!

Like Apeiron said. The 396BBC is like the SBC equivalent to a 262. It's the motor the BBC guys refer to as the "why bother"

You could easily make more power with a stroked SBC than a 396.

396= the bastard child of the BBC

just like 305-307.. bastards of the small blocks

Why build a heavy 396 big block, when you can build a 400 small block for less money?

I have never cared much for the 396 either. I sure love our 427 though! Big block, big power, and it will still spin quick!

ok i need a little explanation 396 = BB....400 = SB ???????? how? i know thats what their called just why is it like that

It comes down to cylinder bore .vs. stroke=cubic inches

"Big block" and "small block" refer to the size of the block, not the displacement of the cylinders.

Big blocks have 4.840" bore spacing and a 9.8" or 10.2" deck height.

Small blocks have 4.400" bore spacing and a 9.025" deck height.

very wellllll then. lets say in the near future...a few years...i get some $$$ and decide to rebuild my 350 (only ~31,000 mi) on the whole engine right now......would it be worth it to pull it out take it all apart, get it stroked, bored or what ever, and completely rebuild it to make a good and safe 400 hp to the rear? it would probably cost less to do that then buy and build a whole new engine i assume....

Probably the only part of the engine you'd be reusing in a 400 RWHP engine would be the block, which is worth about $50. Everything else would be changed.

well, a 396 cause i want to. how bout that for a reason?

no problem for me have fun

Cause I want to? Come on ,I 've read you other posts, your smarter that that. If your gonna go big block, Go BIIIIIG block. Why take the weight penalty of that anchor? Is it a money issue? You can buy a pretty potent BBC crate motor reasonably enough nowadays. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the BBC ( my previous car, 67 Acadian-468 BBC bowtie aluminum heads-833 hemi crash box-456 dana 60-620 hp-610ft.lbs-10:50@130mph) nothing pulls like cubic inches but if you have to change everything over( springs-headers-exhaust-pulleys-brackets-waterpump etc) will it be cheaper? Are you just bored of the small block thing?

i was really tired last night and so i just answered to answer.

here is the idea:
yes, money is always an issue, just to answer that question right off the bat.
-the 396 is available
-a big block is cool, not matter WHAT size it is.
-to have a old school rat "power house" in the car for a reasonable amount of money
-can be made to make big power without too much work
-only weighs 100lbs. more than my sbc and it's not like i have a heavy car anyways (3080# with full interior and sub), i'll be shaving more off with the lack of powersteering and some other things
-can be made to run low 12's/high 11's n/a without killing the motor
-a "mild" 396 is what i'll be running, 450hp-ish, about 500ftlbs., still not really cranking the motor hard
-a set of forged pistons will go in making low 10's easy with a 250shot if i get the itch to.
-i am bored of the sbc...that's all you see in these things. a bbc is frickin' cool and not everyone has them. yes, i can make just as much power from a sbc that i'm talking about from the 396, but they will never look as cool as or sound as incredible as the bbc.
-i won't have to change the springs as i still plan to drag race this on a regular basis and weight transfer is key.

i just want a cool street car. this is not an end-all to race cars. i still want to be able to drive the car whenever, wherever.

But even something as simple as a new set of headers for the BBC. What is a set of conversion headers worth to fit a BBC in the f-body? Then you have to retool your old exhaust to match up to them. BBC's tend to run quite a bit warmer so cooling capacity could be an issue. Hood clearance an issue? Not being a dick, I just know all the issues I ran into with mine, and sometimes I wished I had stayed with the "simple" SBC. That is until I stomped on it and watched who ever was in the pass. seats's head snap clean off!! HEE HEE ok so not clean off, but if I stuck a $100 on the dash and told them they had 4 shifts in which to reach it it was their's, it sure was fun pulling the next gear every time they got close. Ahhhh, good times!

see! yes it is worth it!

i can rebuild the exhaust no problem
the headers are about $450. don't need to be coated...could care less about that. the 700r4 is already built to handle the power so that's not an issue. it's got an ati converter in it too, so that's good to go. the rear may see issues, but again, it's going to be a relatively mild build up. and because of that, the headers are about the only big $$ item that has to be bought for the swap. just gonna use some speedpro power forged pistons and be done with it. the heads will need some work, but not much, probably gonna run an xs274 cam and some comp pro-magnum roller rockers. a 750 double pumper should feed it without issues, and if it does have issues, the pro-form carb body will probably make up for it. cooling may be an issue, but i really believe that my cooling system will be up to par. i have a 3" cowl hood already so, hood clearance isn't an issue either. again, the idea here is basically to have a badass street-driven car. the bbc should help obtain that status. i kinda let the cat outta the bag on this one, i was planning on just doing the swap and letting people know later, but, that's ok, cause i can use all the advise i can take.

once it starts....U BEST make a thread with pics cause i wana see!!!!! i cant wait now for a couple years once i yank my 350 out and give it a make over!! good luck

Ya I picked up on the cowl hood after I posted that part. Doh! What rear is in the car now? It may survive with an automatic. Depends on how hard you stick it I guess. Now on the other hand we have a 95 SS camaro here in town running 9.80's with a 6 speed 396 small block! 396 small block, 396 big block, 427 big block, 427 small block Ahhhh. I'm so confused!! I solved my cooling issue with the biggest griffin aluminum rad (not that aluminum is any more efficient) and two gm electric fans from a cavalier custom mounted side by each. I only needed one except for the hottest days in stop and go traffic or days at the track when I wanted to cool it down quickly between rounds. I found it was the added capacity of the larger rad that did the trick. As you know its all it the combination. Are you looking at oval port heads or rectangular. Oval might make a better street motor for more runner velocity. Kind of the same principal behind long tube runners! Ironic isn't it?

the rear right now is a gm 7.5 out of an 85 z28. it has a set of 4.10 richmond gears with an eaton 28 spline posi with a set of axles from a 91 rs with 28 splines. it will be recieving a set of moser axles and a support cover before the bbc goes in. probably before i take it back to the track even with the 305! i'd like to get the support cover with the brace kit to ensure the rear isn't going to flex any. this all will only set be back about $500, which is far better than the $2500 in a 9" and will weigh a ton less.

*side note* aluminum is more efficient as it can't hold heat in as well...and it's lighter too!

as far as the heads...not sure exactly. kinda limited to stock 396 heads only cause of the bore size...kinda like the 305...hmmm...i need to get the casting numbers off of the heads and block from my buddy.

im excited once u get the block lets see some pics ...wana get some NAAAAAAAAAASTY heads....get AFRs my bro has them on his engine. their bad *** heads, did i mention his fox body has 565 rwhp? its quiet a beast

Hmmmm.... AFR heads. Kind of defeats the "on a budget" doesn't it? You can probably put together a slick set of oval port heads and put a nice camshaft combination together and make some staggering torque numbers. Add a 1 7/8 primary header and you'll be able to pull the world out of orbit from an idle. Oval port parts are quite plentiful and cheap. The 4:10 gear with a 28-28.5 tall tire should work nicely.

well, that's pretty much what i'm running! the street tires are beastly 295/50/16's on a set of 85-87 irocs and the drag tires are a 275/60/15 mt et street radial. the street tires sit about 27.6" tall and the d/r's are right at 28" tall.

on the 396, you can't run anything but the 396 heads cause of the valve size. you run into shrouding problems like you do on small bore sbc's. that's why nobody wants me to build it. so factory heads with a port job and some bowl blending is what will happen. and i want torque! 500fllbs. AT LEAST!

Yes but if you look around the 396 "375" horse L78 did come with rectangular port heads that will breathe way past the oval ports. But your knocking the wind out of the bottom end. My "bowtie "aluminums pulled like a mother trucker out the back door but the lower rpm torque #'s suffered a bit. I was able to get by with a stick car (variable stall torque converter!!) and a 456 gear and a custom 304 first gear in the trans.

lol i was just throwing that out there

well, i'd like power between 2500-5500/6000 rpms, nothing too crazy.

Oval ports are for you. Cheaper too. The rectangular ports start making good power around 3500-4000 and up.

check ebay for headers,i've seen several sets lately for less than small block headers!last set i saw went for less than $100!
You'll also need different motor(frame)mounts and some real low valve covers.as well as what was listed above.oh,and don't forget lots of patience and a big ole shoe horn!
why not a 420 or 472 smallblock or a 502 bigblock? my reason was simply gas mileage.bigger motors always use more fuel to get from point a to point b.but the old saying "no replacement for displacement"also comes to mind.
hey,this is your ride!whatever you decide to run,you'll get support here.unless it's a f*$%,of course!
Eric B

well, i've got solid motor mounts, and from what i'm to understand, they work fine, but i'll give moroso a call and ask if they'll work.

deletin AC monday !!!! time to lose some calories

i'm sure i'll get an argument,but from what i understand solid motor mounts can cause enough cylinder wall distortion.i think summit has poly clamshell mounts assembled(not like energy suspension).not sure if they have both heights,i'll check tomorrow.
Eric B

Here is your argument. You really should be running a solid mount in any car making a serious amount of horsepower. The rubber mounts will fracture under heavy torque (ie BBC) loads AND more importantly allow the driveline angles to change under heavy loads. A big block in a heavy car will have no problem ripping the d/s mount and the trans mount to pieces if a rubber mount is used. Add to that the load already on the trans from the torque arm and it won't be long before the trans mount fails and hopefully doesn't cause a nasty driveshaft incident!