Aftermarket Product ReviewProvide questions and answers about aftermarket parts for the Third Generation F-Body.
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what runners flow better? Arizona S&M LTRs or SLPs?
Arizona Speed and Marine Large Tube Runners stock or some slp runners that have been ported a bit? i see the Arizona Speed and Marine Large Tube Runners sell for a hole lot of money and i want to know why...do they flow more?
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92 fullsize p/u--355 tpi, xr-264-hr-10 cam, hypert flat tops, comp-1.52 rollers, 24lbs, bbk52mm, ported--slps, edelbrock TPI base, coated LT-headers, march pulleys, lookin for a good set of heads, and a good tune!!
ehh to be really honest i have run slp and accel runners and got better gains from the accel runners...accel also has a base plate so it works out plenum porting you can easily do yourself...as&m i know is supposed to be better but i wouldn't spend the money on them personally...
For the money, between TPIS and AS&M, the AS&M are better... GM High tech did an article about a year ago on different TPI components and output difference. The SLP ones did not produce as much peak HP but DID make better power thru the entire RPM range. If you look at test results on dyno and take the HP reading every 500RPM, add them and divide to get an average, SLP beat edelbrock and accel. But the AS&M ones if I remember correctly were the best ones, and still look almost factory. The biggest bottleneck for TPI is the volume in the plenum. The plenum needs alot of grinding and smoothing to make it efficient as possible. If you are on a budget then go with the SLP, try to find some on ebay since SLP just went up almost $100 on their price!!!
For the money, between TPIS and AS&M, the AS&M are better... GM High tech did an article about a year ago on different TPI components and output difference. The SLP ones did not produce as much peak HP but DID make better power thru the entire RPM range. If you look at test results on dyno and take the HP reading every 500RPM, add them and divide to get an average, SLP beat edelbrock and accel. But the AS&M ones if I remember correctly were the best ones, and still look almost factory. The biggest bottleneck for TPI is the volume in the plenum. The plenum needs alot of grinding and smoothing to make it efficient as possible. If you are on a budget then go with the SLP, try to find some on ebay since SLP just went up almost $100 on their price!!!
Wasnt that test done with the AS&M siamesed type runners. Im not sure if Im thinking of the same test though. Everytime I go to the AS&M website I only see the standard runners. Whats the price of the siamesed versions or is it a DIY type thing. I would imagine the siamesed runners would produce different numbers.
My vote goes to the lingenfelter superram runners for tpi but thats not a long tube design.I wrestled around with the best flowing runners debate for too long and just broke down and got the Accel Superram. Even the Ram Jet, Miniram , and Stealth Ram intakes seem more logical. Unless you like useless amounts of torque then consider a different intake.
TPIS runners are ported AS&M's. Accel and Ligenfelter are one in the same as well, Edelbrock and SLP make their own..
I was given alot of advice from people, and did some research,, more or less if you are going to change runners either go with an SLP and port the hell out of it or go with an AS&M style runner.
The Arizona Speed and Marine runners are not of the greatest quality as far as matching up perfectly and TPiS stopped porting their Siamesed Runners because of poor quality. TPiS generally fixes the inconsistanties in the runners when they machine them.
Little advice ,If you cannot afford AS&M/TPiS runners go for SLP's if not stay with your stock runners.
AS far as the comparison between Ligenfelter and SLP, I was told to stay with the SLP for bang for the buck..
HP# for The Super Rod Shootout on a 383...
Stock TPI (410hp, 500lb-ft)
Edelbrock High-Flo (431hp, 501lb-ft)
Extrude Hone base & LTR (451hp, 534lb-ft)
TPIS Big Mouth System (460hp, 534lb-ft)
ASM Siamesed Runners (464hp, 510lb-ft)
SLP T-Ram (466hp, 495lb-ft)
Accel SR (480hp, 506lb-ft)
Holley single plane (493hp, 480lb-ft)
HSR (501hp, 493lb-ft)
MR (505hp, 471lb-ft)
haha dont think they ever posted the flow numbers, but yah... def looks like the TPIS makes the most peak power atleast.
do you guys know what other intakes are possible to get taht are better than a long tube setup, that still allow you to keep your fuel rails, and everything? like the ONLY thing you have to do is take off the base, runners, and plenum, and slap the new intake on, and your done. no other bs??
sorry for stealing this thread, but i think this info would help all of us.
haha dont think they ever posted the flow numbers, but yah... def looks like the TPIS makes the most peak power atleast.
do you guys know what other intakes are possible to get taht are better than a long tube setup, that still allow you to keep your fuel rails, and everything? like the ONLY thing you have to do is take off the base, runners, and plenum, and slap the new intake on, and your done. no other bs??
sorry for stealing this thread, but i think this info would help all of us.
I thought you could keep them, none the less.. here is some more, info I am searching for the flow numbers. I have them.. but I have gone thru about 4 computers since then.
My vote goes to the lingenfelter superram runners for tpi but thats not a long tube design.I wrestled around with the best flowing runners debate for too long and just broke down and got the Accel Superram. Even the Ram Jet, Miniram , and Stealth Ram intakes seem more logical. Unless you like useless amounts of torque then consider a different intake.
I agree. Just add up all the components to upgrade TPI, then compare to what the StealthRam costs, thats how I made my decision.
And the one thing no one makes is a replacement plenum. I had a guy willing to make me one out of sheet aluminum for $300, but the stealth ram was still a better buy.
I agree. Just add up all the components to upgrade TPI, then compare to what the StealthRam costs, thats how I made my decision.
And the one thing no one makes is a replacement plenum. I had a guy willing to make me one out of sheet aluminum for $300, but the stealth ram was still a better buy.
Does anyone even know of a replacement plenum? I have seen a few very old plastic versions but thats about it. Yes TPI parts are expensive as hell!
If you go for nice parts... $500 runners, $500 baseplate, $500 TB, Plenum $???, etc.
I would try to find the parts used. I just bought a Edelbrock intake and runners that are powder coated black and have some gasket matching, and a ported and polished plenum for $475 shipped. I agree that the AS&M runners are the best, but when I read that article about the different tpi intakes it seemed that some of the results were like comparing apples to oranges. What I mean by that is some of the systems had fully ported and matched plenums, and larger throttle bodies while others had the stock plenum and throttle body. I know that the edelbrock one was run with a stock plenum and throttle body with no airfoil if I remember correctly.
yeah im goin to stick with the slps i have...i just need to do more port work on them...but not sure what tools to use to get down in the tubes to open them up more....any thoughts...i cant find a flapper wheel with sandpaper anywere.
So how much do have to spend??? I have vortec heads so that limited my choice right away and not really into major porting finished me off. The best rule of thumb I ran accross was to keep the baseplate and runners from the same manufacturer, so I went with Edelbrock but was still $$ with the vortec intake. ported the plenum and TB nicely and did some minor cleanup that was it- now for a new ecu. The siameseing of the runners as I understand adds top end at the expense of bottom end and being a truck wasn't any use to me although I'm hoping the Hi-Flow makes some ground over stock. What scared me away from working on the SLPs was problems with airflow-leaness which I read somewhere.
Its an '89 k1500 with 700r4 and 4:10's stock vortec cam, rebuilding the engine again soon- if you a choice stay away from the KB pistons unless your machinist is spot on- too noisey. Having some pinging issues right now but every now and again the engine/ecm gets its **** togerther and gives me a glimpse of what the tpi is capable of- lots of power. was using Edelbrocks tbi to mpi conversion kit that still uses the 7747 computer worked well after westers garage redid the chip but for coolness i've always liked the tpi and for a truck thought it a better bet than the hsr. working towards a megaquirt with wb o2 to get this thing working right.
The only thing on the stealthram webpage I dont like is the fact they dont show what an extrude honed complete superram would flow. We can assume 275 cfm. Need some serious heads for that though. Never heard of anyone ever try a vortec superram either.
Arizona Speed and Marine Large Tube Runners stock or some slp runners that have been ported a bit? i see the Arizona Speed and Marine Large Tube Runners sell for a hole lot of money and i want to know why...do they flow more?
Heh... didn't believe me on fullsize?
The AS&M and TPIS LTRs are one and the same. You can't port them, there is nothing there to port.
The SLPs will outflow (but surprisingly I haven't seen them outperform) the AS&M LTRs. The king daddy for LTRs would be the AS&M semi-siamesed runners. I think the only SLPs that came close or comparable to those were the ones cut open, ported and then welded up. Accel and Lingenfelters are the same and for the FYI...
The TPIS Big Mouth is just a port matched edelbrock intake.
There was a really good thread about 3 or 4 years back that covered all this in the TPI forum. Not too sure what your chances are of finding it though.
I lost ET AND MPH with stock SLP runners.... use the stock runners unless you port the hell out of the SLPs then extrudehone them and port them some more..
The AS&M and TPIS LTRs are one and the same. You can't port them, there is nothing there to port.
The SLPs will outflow (but surprisingly I haven't seen them outperform) the AS&M LTRs. The king daddy for LTRs would be the AS&M semi-siamesed runners. I think the only SLPs that came close or comparable to those were the ones cut open, ported and then welded up. Accel and Lingenfelters are the same and for the FYI...
The TPIS Big Mouth is just a port matched edelbrock intake.
There was a really good thread about 3 or 4 years back that covered all this in the TPI forum. Not too sure what your chances are of finding it though.
hth.
RD,
Is this the thread you speak of by any change? If not, I hope it will still prove helpful.
Runners (measured individually)
Stock........................................................................................................................................203.17 cfm
ACCEL.....................................................................................................................................242.02 cfm
Extrude/ACCEL........................................................................................................................275.83 cfm
Super Ram................................................................................................................................289.18 cfm
Intake manifold with 3/8 inch radiused inlet .............................................................................222.45 cfm
Holley stealth ram ………..........................................................................................................275.00 cfm
Stock intake manifold with runner
Stock.........................................................................................................................................198.72 cfm
ACCEL......................................................................................................................................213.52 cfm
Extrude/ACCEL.........................................................................................................................217.11 cfm
Super Ram.................................................................................................................................220.67 cfm
Holley stealth ram ….................................................................................................................275.00 cfm
ACCEL Hi-Flow intake manifold with 3/8 inch radiused inlet.....................................................251.51 cfm
ACCEL Hi-Flow intake manifold with runner Stock...................................................................215.83 cfm
ACCEL......................................................................................................................................232.53 cfm
Extrude/ACCEL.........................................................................................................................243.21 cfm
Super Ram.................................................................................................................................240.24 cfm
Extrude-Honed ACCEL Hi-Flow intake manifold with 3/8 inch radiused inlet.............................275.83 cfm
Extrude-Honed ACCEL Hi-Flow intake manifold with ACCEL runner.......................................266.94 cfm
Edelbrock Performer RPM manifold (Stock)...............................................................................286.51 cfm
Edelbrock Victor Jr....................................................................................................................275.24 cfm
Runner Length
Stock TPI manifold ...................8” ...............runners 11.25”............... cylinder head 6”.............total 25.25”
Accel super ram manifold........ 8”................runners 7.00”............... cylinder head 6”............ total 21.00”
Holley stealth ram manifold .....6.26” ................................................. cylinder head 6”............ total 12.26”
Edelbrock performer RPM ...........................runners 6.00”................ cylinder head 6”............ total 12.00”
Edelbrock Victor Jr .......................................runners 5.50”................ cylinder head 6”............ total 11.50”
