Quote: Originally Posted by firstfirebird Again, I'm a GM fan but the 'Vette vs. GT40? You have entirely missed the point of the discussion. This isn't about Chevy vs. Ford, but the cost effectiveness of DOHC 4V technology vs OHV 2V and what GM has accomplished with "old school" tech. But since you bring it up, the GT40 is slower than the Vette. Here's a test article between the Vette, GT40 and Viper. The Vette did the 1/4 in 12.0 secs while the GT40 did it in 12.2 sec. I found it on Ford's website. 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 vs. Ford GT vs. Dodge Viper SRT10 Coupe Stats - Automobile Magazine But, back to those Arao Heads. For the money they cost, I can spend my money elsewhere modifying my engine and be far faster. I'm into modifying a car to make it as quick as possible for the LEAST amount of money.

GM is well into junk status and in as much financial trouble as Ford.

I wouldnt fault either engine, make a big deal of a 4.6 needing boost to keep up with a 5.7 is silly. They both took different paths, one went 4 valves, one went two. Of the two, I'd probably choose the 5.7 for the cubes and simple but effective design. As for the Arao/Dominion heads, total waste of money. That type of setup would be reserved for ooooh ahhhh factor only by someone with more money than brains. A well built SBC or bolt on LS1 would lay a Arao head SBC to waste and probably last longer.

I'm a chevy person, but there's nothing wrong with Ford. I used to get spanked by my buddies GT regularily until I got wild(not just bolt-ons).

- there's good and bad in ALL brands, but that has nothing to do with multi-valve heads........
^^^^^^^ I'm running 11's with less than the cost of those heads in my whole package. - I can't justify anything just for OOOOOHHHH/AAAAHHHH

Hey Willie...

Im not trying to be a d*ck or anything. Please dont take it like that.

My arguement is this...

All of my Ford buddies yell and scream about how you can get a S/C Cobra, slap on a lightning pulley, headers, exhaust, intake, tune the PCM, and go 11's. My arguement is... Get a 98 LS1 F body. Install headers, exhaust, Procharger, and go EASY 11's. Now, port the heads, change the cam, blah blah blah. How fast can you go then? How much did it cost? Less than the Cobra and mods put together.

The Ford modular motors are OK, I guess. I used to wrench at a Ford dealer back in the day. The 4.6 police cruisers were CONSTANTLY in the shop getting the engines replaced. I dont know about the reliability of the 5.4 engines though.

Cobra mods COST! So do LSX mods. Complexity? The Ford modular motors are COMPLEX! What exactly do you have to do to swap cams on a 5.4 DOHC motor? Compare that to the GenI, GenII, OR GenIII SBC motors. And how much does 4 cams cost?

I know we are WAY off the topic of this thread. Sure, if I wanna buy the fastest AMERICAN BUILT V-8 powered car sports car for the least amount of money, I will buy the Mustang GT500. If money is no object, Z06 vette! Since I dont exactly like Fords, and since I cant afford the Z06 (right now ), I will build up my RS.

Now, I wonder what would happen if someone put a turbo or supercharger on a Z06 vette.

P.S. Yes, I know that a vette is not the best choice for a daily driver. Yes, the Mustang better suited to be a daily driver. I will admit that!

To each his own but I will never own a ford product. As far as stock you have to realise that since 1973 or so gm has been nothing about performance. Fords have always been better off the shelf and probably always will. I mean look at the 5.0 stangs they were putting out. The goverment said hey you guys need to tone down your engine because your stock 5.0's are out running our police cars by a mile. Youd never see that said about a 350TPI in an IROC but the 350 is just as good of a motor, it just takes more work. IMO GM's will always take more money to make em as fast as a ford. As far as 32v goes I'm all in for old school screw technology and computers bandwagon!

GM motor's don't take any more work to make power than Fords. The 5.0's stock for stock didn't really run much, if any faster than a 350tpi. They also don't respond any better to the general bolt on than a GM motor. - The thing is they're completely different motors. If gm's exhaust and intake was better suited factory than fords factory, then it may look as though they respond better, but no. To make "x" hp with "x" cubic inches takes "x' air/fuel. - Brand makes no difference, the more fuel you can burn, the more power you're gonna make. Thats the whole point of chargers/nitrous. By forcing(be it pressure or spray) more fuel into a motor, you raise the efficiency of that engine, thus it makes more power.
- now back to the point of this thread -
That's why 4 valve heads don't really have any gain over 2 valve heads. No matter the number of valves, the cubic inch, the bore size, the induction type, the brand, etc, the more fuel you can make it burn, the more power you will make. If the cfm of a 2 valve head is equal to the cfm of a 4 valve head, on the same engine they will make the same power. The curves will usually be different, but the peaks will be the same.

-also, the 4.6's have had issues with ring seal, which is probably why they we're being replaced in the past. Ford has yet to put a quality piston ring in these motors(other than the sc cobra's, which ford out-sourced the internals), everyone I know working seriously on them changes the rings and beats hell out of them. stock cranks, stock rods, stock pistons, 99+ "p.i." heads, no issues. - My buddies got over 40k on his, running 12's, he even changes the oil and the plugs on occassion.....

edit: also, the governmentn doesn't really have a say in the "allowed" power of a vehicle. The only thing the government has say is in safety/impact ratings. The insurance companies have more say in power levels of a vehicle, because who would by a 1000hp car if no insurance company would insure it? - The only "tone down" the manufacturer's had was trying to figure out how to make power and meet emissions requirements. Look through the years, it's easy to see.

how about the ford 4.6L with it's ingenious "composite" intake manifold? Yea, thats a bright idea, make a 4lb intake manifold out of mexican plastic, save a lb of weight, maybe make it cheaper. oh wait, coolant under pressure goes through these, a slight PLASTIC casting irregularity, and the thing cracks. (ooh ooh, ask me how I know this.... $1300 for repair by a non-dealership... $800 intake, design version #2... )
yea, cop cars recalled it, but civilian crown vics didn't get the recall so...
ahem, anyway...

the pre-99's had the intake problem, Ford never did correct it, you have to get the Dorman aftermarket to properly fix the problem. (it's cheaper anyhow)On the 99 and later(p.i. heads) the intake is plastic, but the coolant cross-over is cast aluminum. - And finally there are a couple performance aftermarket options available...that gt of my buddies should get close to 400rwhp with a decent intake.

- How about Gm with the craptastic plastic intake on the 3.8's, the 3.4's, etc? They have the same problems with them that ford had with the early 4.6 intake. Ever see an LS1 pop the factory mexican plastic piece off? I have.

- sorry to be off topic -

Go ask cops about the 9C1 caprices, and what they've been replaced with be it GM or ford. Cop cars are pigs, no way around it. Even the interceptors that are F-bodies or stangs have a few hundred pounds of radios, lights shotgun etc. etc. in them.