Im gonna be buying new heads within the next week or so and I was wondering if any one had any info on the patriot freedom series heads.. theyre fuly assembled aluminumheads for 700 a pair! for 190cc heads with 2.02/1.60 stainless valves that sounds like a damn good deal to me.. anyone got some input?? thanks

Dans87GTA bought a set from someone off of ebay. He told me they look great, and his dad agreed(and he does cylinder head work for a living). They're not on the car yet, but if you do a search there's a pretty good thread on here about them.

Hey I'm thinking about the exact set! Would you let me know how they workout for ya? Also, who are you buying them from for $700? Thanks!-Alex

i sell em at my work, very nice looking head!

Patriot carries a good name in respects to the LSX croud, I would assume the same quality for gen 1 products as well.

assumption is questionable, as their CNC ported 4.6 2valve ford heads suck, but that's a completely different engine of which most companies haven't figured out yet.

whats the flow numbers. shouldn't just buy a head for the way it looks make sure it has the flow numbers to back them up

the flow numbers are:
Flow Figures taken on Our(patriot's) Superflow 1020 Bench 4.060" Bore



.100" 70 52

.200"132 94

.300"180 127

.400"220 162

.500"244 183

.550"250 190

.600"260 195

I'd really like to know where these Patriot "Assembled" heads are being sold for $700, cause I've been lookin at heads the last couple days and when I checked on the Patriot heads, the prices I found were in the range of $1300 range.

Are you sure they are assembled, or is the price 700 each and you mistook it as a pair. Anyway if you know where to get Patriot heads at $700 pair Assembled, please let the rest of us know, I know I would certainly be interested since I am also in the market for a set.

http://www.patriot-performance.com/w...p?x=1&DID=1225

Here's a pretty good price for a set of them. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PATRI...mZ260142747431

Are these heads emissions legal for our cars or would we have to modify our egr with the scoggin-dickeys kit (that runs it to the header like the l98 corvettes)?

I have those heads i got them from white performance from ebay along with other parts as well thay look excellent and are very clean in the bowl area and their tech support was very knowledgeable and helpful I got them with 7/16 screw in studs and am very happy with them

I just bought a fully assembled set of Dart's new platinum series Pro1s assembled for $1060 shipped. something to consider. I was looking at patriots, but they only run about the same as a good vortec from what ive heard

flow numbers are questionable too. We don't race flow benches.
Dart's new wet flow process is a much more acurate testing, but again, we don't race test results.

Flow bench numbers are great to have for selection of the cam/intake/gearing/etc, but they are not even close to the end-all.

Wet flow testing is different from normal airflow testing.
Wet flow bench testiing is to evaluate how fuel,(and air) will flow thru the head.
It is evaluated as a qualitative result as opposed to a quantitative result. It is not used to show airflow. Dart is one of the worst offenders when it comes to inflating published flowbench results. From what I've seen the head you buy does not flow near what they publish.

These are probably the ones you were researching then:

http://www.patriot-performance.com/w...05238&DID=1225

The flow numbers and 795$ price quoted above were for the "Freedom Series" heads which are their lowest grade 23* SBC head. For 1295$ those are some pretty sweet heads with some nice parts. Standard springs good to .650" lift and titanium retainers with 10* locks, no other heads in that price range offer that.

they are not smog legal i called about them.

I dont care, I'm in Michigan, we still get to destroy the environment all we want around here....lol....j/k...actually we have emmissions laws here but no testing, which basically comes down to no enforcement.

Check out CHP, no better than regular vortec's.

Which Patriot heads, the 795$ "Freedom Series" or the 1295$ "Super Street" heads?

That would be the cheapies that started out this thread. It's amazing what a bood job GM did with 1.94/1.5 or how bad other companies do with their 2.02/1.6. Personally I just bought a pair of RHS iron vortec 2.02's they needed some clean up and blending and hope they are at least as good as the GM vortec. I considered these Patriot's too but there wasn't enough info at the time and since I am already committed to the vortec base really don't know how their dual pattern bolt works with intake port sizing, why buy a new pair of heads just to modify other components- CHP didn't even try a vortec intake on those- even though the article said they had one.

What about

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PROCO...QQcmdZViewItem

i was looking at those same heads 19kilo, let me know what your thinking about them. I'm running a xe268h xtreme energy comp cam, Edelbrock performer RPM intake,Vs Holley 650, on a 350 4 bolt main

pro comp? ew. at least the patriots are better quality.

lol i take it pro comp isn't smiled upon here on TGO.... damn, it sucks not having money!

i get CHP and didnt see the patriot head vs vortec head article.

now if all they did was a head swap on the same motor, then i can see why a vortec head motor would win. same compression ratio but one head is iron and one is aluminum. with aluminum you want .5-1 point higher compression to make same power as iron heads since aluminum dissappates heat more than iron.

also the vortecs are i believe a 170 cc head while the patriots are 190. that will slow air velocity down on a motor that has a small cam and/or lower compression.
I'd like to see the mag article. Let me know what issue date it was and i'll see if i can find it. I'm curious if they just had a case of a mismatched combination. i wouldnt expect a mild 350 with a head swap to gain performance. I'm curious to see how much power each head is capable of making, thats the only way to see how good a head is. I'm willing to bet just by the size of the runner, the valve sizes, and advertised flow numbers, the patriot will support more power. But i know advertised numbers dont count for jack

I'm working at one of the diamond mines in the Canadian Arctic, so I need to buy all the car mags I can lay my hands on- Car Craft, August- Dirt Cheap Aluminum Heads From Patriot. I'm not saying they are junk- but like the vortecs they're going to need some work to really shine- or maybe you just need aluminum. I thought that with 2.02's they should work better than the article states. I actually inspected a pair and they looked clean need a little clean up around the valve stems- I don't know what they use for hardware- I would order bare and put Comp and Manley in there. I suppose you get what you pay for.

damn i just need better heads than my "Made in Mexico" POS

and a new carb, and nitrous, and a transgo shiftkit, and subframe connectors,and my engine swap done....

I'm like the frickin Energizer bunny.... the list just keeps going and going and going

set of Camel humps for sale less than 1000 miles on them set up for screw in studs, comp 4800 guide plates, comp springs and retainers up to a .500 lift cam.
casting # 8762461
date code: K664

for 250 bucks worth it?

Not too bad on the flow. Especially for $700....but why not just save the $$$ and get some AFR 195s? Ebay for $1500 shipped was the last price I saw. Which if you think about the insane flow your getting. Its not that bad.

Here's some pictures of the patriots as sold through white performance. These are the 2.05/1.60 valves, angle plug, 68cc (I think), and "274" dual springs w/ dampers for hydraulic roller.

More pics. Springs and exhaust ports.

now, get some real numbers from em!

Thats what i'm running, but be weary of Skip White Performance. I bought a whole head/rocker arm setup from them, and today when I was breaking in the cam the thing started missing and backfiring like crazy. Well to make a long story short they sent me the wrong rocker arm studs that are too short. After pulling my valve covers off I found a bent pushrod, three rouge rocker arms, and three lifters out of their bores. The heads look beautiful but like I said, Skip White Performance sucks.

how is it skip white's fault that you didn't pay attention when you put your top end together?

This was my first build, I expected to recieve the parts that I ordered.

you know you need to run .100" longer than stock pushrods with these heads, right? also explain how the studs were too short. if the rocker and nut fit over the stud and you can tighten said nut/polylock (which you obviously did to get it running) there shouldn't be a problem. did you forget to install the guide plates? wrong pushrods?

i ordered these heads from skip white and i was sent 14 3/8 studs and 2 7/16 studs. i called and they sent me the 2 correct studs express mail. no harm, no foul. and all my lifters stayed right where i left them.

as far as your first build goes...nothing goes as expected.

The rocker arm studs were supposed to have a 1 5/8" thread length, the ones i got have a 1 3/8" thread length. The rocker arms fit the studs, even with the +.100" valves and pushrods, but with the valves adjusted there were only about three threads of the polylock biting the stud. It held together until the last few threads of the polylock finally stripped. I can't complain too much about Skip White performance, I called them up and they said this is the third set they sent out that was too short. They were quick to box up new studs, new poly locks new intake gaskets, and a new pushrod.

2.05 valves? - Many head companies bump the intake seats up to 2.05 on heads that they release as "blemish" heads. Usually, it's only a cosmetic or casting flash, but you really don't want over a 2.02 valve until you hit the point of needing the extra flow. I don't step up valve sizes until it's needed, because it can easily hurt performance when it's not.

Yes, aluminum heads need more compression to benefit equally to iron heads. All heads benefit from the proper compression and the proper cam/components, that's where the real tricky part comes in. One set of heads may work great in one application, and may suck in another. Your entire package has to be designed around your application. - That's why the magazine articles tend to add up to only slightly useful info.

Bottom line. Decide what you want from the vehicle, what you use it for and what is required from it. Call the manufacturers, talk to people who have used the products, talk to engine builders and then make an educated guess as to what suits your wants/needs and what suits your budget. - This board is great help for this, but none of us are the one who drives your car, in your town, to and from, etc, etc as you do.
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No arguement from me. - Many manufacturers' inflate their numbers. All claim they don't. All I'm saying is that the performance you get out of an engine depends upon the entire package. Any unmatched component costs you performance, no matter how great the numbers are for that component.

a 2.02 valve has long been the small block performance standard...please elaborate how the slightly larger 2.05 valve would in any way hinder performance on an otherwise optimized combo.

if a larger valve is not needed, then it is costing you velocity. Less responsive ness, less power under the curve. - All I was pointing out is that many manufacturers' punch the seats to 2.05 on blemish heads as a way of keeping track of them. As I stated, these heads are not usually "bad" heads, they're just not up to full quality control standards. - The only real problem is when a dealer sells bleemish heads w/o telling the consumer. You may buy them slightly cheaper from one source than another, but you may not get as good of quality product.

I don't know about their quality, but you could have ordered good quality parts from Patriot themselves. White Performance buys the bare castings, and then builds the heads themselves(probably using the cheapest parts to make even more profit). Like I said I'm not sure of the quality, just when we called them, they didn't seem very professional, the workers didn't seem to know as much as they should. So, we went down to Alabama and had a little tour of their place, they look pretty professional, and knew what they were talking about and were nice people.

These heads seem good so far, ran the motor numerous times, but haven't put any real stress on the motor yet. They seem to flow really well, although we gasket matched everything. So far, I have no complaints so far. for Patriot Performance.

I would think that unless you actually need the larger valve, it's hurting you more than helping. It's harder to get a volume of air moving through a larger space. A 2.05 valve is going to flow well at high RPM ranges, but the 2.02 will provide slightly better throttle response.

my car actually has better manners in town than i expected, even running on a safe start up tune. i don't plan on buying new heads for quite a long time, but who's to say that 355 i've got won't be replaced with a 406 or something bigger a year or two from now? not to mention the car has a .525 290 dur. cam and a 2500 stall with 3.73 gears and a locker. so creature comforts and ultimate driveability aren't that great of a concern of mine. all in all i don't think the larger valve will become a glaring driveability issue on the street.

Fuel injected? That's alot of duration for the street, how's that cam match the 2500 stall?

yup it's injected. and like i said the car has good pretty manners all things considered. it idles at 700, and the converter works well with the cam and gears.

Hello,

I purchased these heads last summer bare and took them to a local head shop, Mexico performance motors to have them checked on a superflow bench. They flowed:intake .150-98 .200-129 .300-178 .400-219 .450-252 .500-261 .600-262. Exhaust With tube .500-179 .600-189. These were checked with a ferrea backcut valve so that might explain the good numbers. I was very impressed. After looking at them larry(the technician) said that it would be very easy to improve flow with minor porting. I spent 200$ on the porting and came up with: .300-188 .400-230 .450-260 .500-262 .600-261.I will be putting these on my 11.5 cr 383 this summer, I will let you know how it runs.