Quote: Originally Posted by Uglybronco Well there's an explanation. NO DUH A 455 IN A FIERO GOT MORE RESPONSE... Holy crap, I've never heard such a thing but that gets my seed makers all tingly just thinking of the concept... Also, umm I don't know why a pontiac specific mag would expect much out of 3rd (or 4th) gens.. There's not much of anything too pontiac specific about them. Oh & Car Craft does some pretty good coverage of our cars also... Not trying to knock this, but after reading your last post it got me thinking a bit, & I do plan on searching for the magazine next time I'm in a store & have my bills paid. Thanks guys, I really appreciate the kind words. Regarding the Fiero, there are a number of V8 conversions running around, but few are magazine quality. The letters/emails came from Fiero owners. Keeping in mind that Fiero production was 5 yrs/350,000 cars (most going directly to the junkyard) vs 10 yrs of 3rd gens and over 2 MILLION cars total, being schooled by Fiero owners is embarrassing. There is also equally little Pontiac-specific about the 4th gens, but the HPP editor and every other editor that covers GM cars gets constant response on 4th gens, thus we do lots of tech and features on them, several in EVERY ISSUE, and sales of aftermarket products for those cars is very strong, so new products are constantly being developed and introduced. That would not be the case with the 3rd-gens, which were produced in almost three times greater numbers than 4th gens. Our silence sends a message. So, if you liked the Car Craft coverage, or want to see them do something specific with it, send the editor an email or a letter. Regarding the LS-1 swap, the major source of info on that would be Hawks. Doing that swap in CA is problematic because of smog laws (it can be done, but is a MASSIVE pita to get approved). I'll mention it to him when we talk and see what he thinks. I understand it makes an awesome car and is cleaner than the TPIs, but in CA it causes problems with the smog Nazis. Thanks again guys. I knew if I whined, you'd come around. TA

First off, Thirdgens kick a$$. I am passionate enough about the platform that when I moved to Japan for four years, I entrenched myself into an abandoned 1989 T/A. Forget about Skyline GTR's and 3 rotor Cosmo's. I relish every chance to read Thirdgen stuff in print!!! CHEERS to HPP about this article. The (redundant) stuff that is in it, is only that way to the truest of F-body junkies. So what if it's a glance over for the 20-25 year veterans, the newbie’s need food too. Lastly, I have scanned the article, 12.5 meg worth. If it is legal, I can share ASAP.
Shawn "wishin' I had sent pics into HPP with my Japanese plates on"


Shawn "wishin' I had sent pics into HPP with my Japanese plates on"

Regarding the new BBk TPI intake system. It may turn out not to be to bad of a design. I think the key is how they have designed the intake manifold itself. We know the inside of the runners are 1.70" in diameter. Not to bad for your average performance motor. The plenum is said to be able to accept a 58mm throttle body. That should get it done.

One of the keys to the intake manifold will be what they did with the port entry/exit to the head. The other will be the minimum cross sectional area of the runners and how easy it will be to open it up some if need be. Mate the system to the new AFR 195 Eliminators or say the Dart Pro One Platinum series heads and you could have a real winner for our cars that everyone can buy.

We will have to wait and see. Looks like TA will get an opportunity for an in depth report. Hey TA if you need an assistant let me know.

Could someone place a link to a place one can buy this magazine online, when and if it comes availiable?

I don't know copyright law, and have no authority to approve posting the information, I just know I can't do it.

The article will be posted on http://www.highperformancepontiac.com when the magazine comes off the newsstand, but they're getting backed up.

You can order "back issues" (single issues) at www.primediabackissues.com
go under "high performance Pontiac" and it's the May '08 issue, all back issues appear to be listed for $6, and I'm guessing that shipping is extra.

The BBK intake runners are formed tube, with machined grooves and O-rings instead of gaskets. It will be lightweight and I expect fit and finish will be excellent, but those manufacturing methods will not lend themselves to being ported or modified like a thicker casting. That information was from Brian (CEO), I haven't seen anything but the base yet.

TA

hey TA was that youre gta that they did the exhaust on a while back in hpp? hooker 2055's and 4" mufflex to a spin tech?

...at least someone read it!!

Yes, trying to figure out how to get some juice out of that GTA has resulted in several "basic" articles, but it just doesn't respond to bolt-ons like the old school muscle cars, but they have become so expensive and are so gas-hungry that I think the 3rd-gen is well worth a bit more effort.

I guess I'm being challenged to come up with something that you guys on this site will find more newsworthy, and that involves experimentation, breaking things, and wasting time and money finding out what doesn't work. Basic stuff can be done reasonably quickly, but the more intense "experimentation" stuff takes huge amounts of time, especially when things go very wrong.

TA

Hi,
I'm new to the forum, but I wanted to say I like hpp and as someone who is younger, it gives me ideas. I also knew pretty much everything in the article but it was still a good article. The one thing I would have added is to look for the ac delete plates and their respective parts. I picked up everything inside and out for $20 out of an 83 v6 car. Even if you don't use it on your car they are worth saving. Hpp published two of my letters ("No go third gen formula"). Keep the third gen stuff coming. Tks

I personally would LOVE a article on either a procharged or turbo third gen.

Now, take a bone stock L98 or LB9 and throw a procharger on it. Dyno before and after. Then do basic bolt ons and redyno showing the improvements with headers, exhaust, MSD, custom intake, smaller pulley, stealth ram, SC cam, etc etc etc.

Check out www.hawksthirdgenparts.com Bruce's teal firebird is cool. There was a video up too. Its a supercharged ls1. I know its not a l98 but its still at third gen and it gave me all sorts of ideas.

TA,

I bought the magazine and read the article.........it was great as far as I was concerned. I've liked these cars for years and there was new info for me.

Lets see some more stuff on third gens.............looking forward to it!

Thanks for the article, I'll have to go out to B&N this week and see if I can find it. I only subscribe to GMHT and Hot Rod, but I may start looking at HPP. I've been thinking about article ideas, and a couple may be relevent to HPP too.

Like mentioned above, in depth LSx swap articles, maybe do one on a Mega Squirt build/install/tune.

I was also happy that Troy did the article. Seems like there's fewer and fewer options for these cars and thanks to those who do what they can to keep them alive. I was honored to be able to contribute to the mag.

Ed

Wow, wish I had read this sooner. Now I have to go out and see if there are any issues still on the stands.

I'm glad that there is someone involved in writing thirdgen articles for magazines, and trying to increase editorial interest in the cars. Even if the info is all on this site, I'd still enjoy seeing it cleaned up and condensed in a magazine. Besides, TGO does not get people interested in these cars, nor does TGO prompt manufacturers to market thirdgen related parts. But, magazines can do both of those things.

As for future tech articles, one might consider a balance between maintenance and performance articles. Common trouble codes, how to retrieve them, what they mean. Using a datalogger to diagnose and tune your car. What to do if you fail emissions. Engine bay clean-up (both cosmetic freshening as well as ideas for removing/relocating/replacing items to make a cleaner apperance). 10 bolt vs. 9 bolt breakdowns. Bodywork: how to repair a urethane nosecone, repair a rusty floor, holes in the body. Brake upgrades, from mild and cheap to wild. T-56 swaps done right.

How about a large paintjob shootout article? Three cars are painted. One is treated to a high-dollar professional spray job, the other a budget self-spray in the garage, and the last gets one of the super-budget rolled-on Rustoleum/Brightside jobs. The cars are compared side by side, cruised, or shown together to gauge how much more respect (if any) the more expensive paint jobs command compared to the budget work.

There are a ton more ideas. Of course MOST of these topics will have been brought up here on TGO because the site is so old and huge. But again, that doesn't matter. How many times have '69 camaros been covered in magazines over the past forty years? Too many, but readers still demand them so magazines still print them.

I know that whenever I see a Third Gen article I buy the mag. TA is right, we vote with our dollars, Capitalism at it's finest! Keep the faith!

TA i hope youre reading these positive responses.. keep the thirdgens related articles and tech coming.. i actually went to a new stand yesterday. and piked up the new hpp, and nothing on thirdgens. so i didnt buy it. although i prob have a 3ft high stack of them at home.

i just picked up the newest camaro performers mag yesterday, on the thirdpage they have readers comments on the article with the member here's car. i think his name is jeckyl and hide?? its the two tone orange and black z28. anyway theres a few great pieces of mail in there about thirdgens and there reputation. but at the end the editor writes " this is the best mail ive gotten since ive been here, the thirdgenners have spoken" so i guess theyll be puting lots more in it for us. not to mention they did a spread on another thirdgen z. awesome car.. and finished there 383 tpi build. so a good amount of thirdgen reading pleasure in the new camaro performers. i just wanted to give all a heads up..

Any idea where that would be?? Barns and Noble, Borders??

Excellent news about Camaro Performers, they have been somewhat 3rd-gen resistant in the past, but letters and emails really work guys! When I worked on that magazine, it was only 4 times a year, and only on newsstands, so it sits on the newsstand longer, but is on fewer and is a bit harder to find. I've seen 'em at Barnes and Noble and Wal Mart, but not all of them.

Wade Rannery won the best of show with his '84 TA at the Trans Am nationals in '07 (feature, Feb '09 HPP), and that kind of quality of car also makes a big impact on the rest of the car hobby. The best thing you can do for the value and classic status of your own car is take it out and race it, show it or just show up at events and let people see that real car people can make awesome rides with them.

Thank you everyone for the kind words. Some of the responses really made me wonder if I was wasting my time, money and energy, so all the supporters out there, thank you and I'll try and do something worthy of the support. I really liked a lot of the ideas of possible stories, although many are just not possible in California, not so much because of the emissions, but because the way the laws are written, they would prefer an owner NEVER looks under his own hood, let alone touches anything.

TA

Thats another reason not to live in CA

You can make an arguement for or against every state in the union. Lets not do that in this thread.

I think y'all hit on something earlier. Alot of 3rd gen owners don't have a lot of cash to throw at their cars. Being one of those people I'm trying to find the biggest hp road blocks and upgrading as necessary. Also I want to take my family cruisin' and go to the track as much as possible, so I don't want my car to be out of commision for extended periods of time. I'm planning on adding headers and hi-flow cat to my cat-back exhaust. Then I will be yanking the 2.73 gears for 3.73s and so on. I would like to see an article or series of articles about pinpointing 3rd gens' weaknesses and what to do about them. Not everyone has a place or the necessary tools for engine swaps. So I would really love to see some 305s get hopped up. Personally, every dollar I spend on my car will be going to making it faster...so I'm not to interested in seeing interior or cosmetic articles. My car is one day going to end up being pretty quick but will still be looking like an old rust bucket, and I'm ok with that.

anyone see the new camaro performers??? they have a thirdgen z28. with a 335 stroker, everything else stock, car ran 13.4's.. wow, it was a great article and a good story as well, thats what i call "real world" i also find it funny that you can stroke out a 305, leave everthing else stock. and run more than a second faster than a stock 350..

Can someone e-mail me scans of the article... I can't find it on their website.

And you can stroke a 350 and run more than a half a second faster than that stroked 305. Its been beaten to death more than a dead horse.

hhmm duh!!! why the hell are you so negative.. i was just pointing something out.. a smaller motor with less cubes comparing to a larger cube motor is still faster.. whats youre point? whats youre l98 run a 14.8?.. i just dont get some of you people, im just pointing something out for people, something people may be interested in, and you MUST leave a negative comment????? jack**************.

^ Bandit, Kevin's been around the block quite a few times, and is a true Third Gen enthusiast. Don't take it so personally man, we all have our opinions, even those pesky moderator's....

I don't know what he currently runs, but his profile says: 12.803 @ 108.50 MPH (1.923 60') . I know I've seen a few videos of his runs, too.

Now calm down with your "jack**************" words or you'll receive another infraction which you're fairly accustomed to. Kevin did not treat you disrespectfully he merely made a point he and many others believe in. Nothing personal. Drop it now, this is a FINAL warning. Just stay on topic of the thread as you did previously.

ok dude..

keep up the good work