Aftermarket Product ReviewProvide questions and answers about aftermarket parts for the Third Generation F-Body.
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Anyone who would put any sort of Honda powerplant in their Fbody, should have their Fbodies taken away, and condemned to an eternity of driving Hondas.
lol...... but dont knock hondas me and a friend both got vtec v6 accords that are simply bad ***, and still get way high MPG even driving it like you stole it, cant say much for a civic, or 4 cly accord......
but on a serrious note, im sure someone has allready built a hybrd set up in a classic/muscle car..... got to ride in a hybrd tahoe this weekend (6.0 V8 for the gas end) and it was peppy for a soccer mom ride, it would take alot to put one in a car.... i would like to see one, i wouldnt buy it or vote for it best in show, but would like to see
BTW, waiting on my friend with the civic to decide to build this hyd. crap box and see what (if any ) results we get
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I don't have a problem with hondas. They get good mileage, that's a purpose they serve well. I've got a truck, a 'bird, and a cavalier. A hauler, a fun car, and a mileage car. When next the mileage car gets replaced, it may be by a honda.
It would still be sacrilege to put a honda powerplant in an fbody.
QUOTE black89ws6
Not the same thing. That is adding additional fuel. The mileage increased because the propane was not included in the mileage calculation, even though it contributed to the engine output.
Right I agree except it is the similar as you are adding additional fuel...water.
"Quote"
Although this is true, I'm not quite certain what you mean...You're average 105 amp alternator uses an amp or two to maintain the rotor field when at full output.
What I meant is that regaurdless of cars amp draw the alternator is regulating weither its 60 amps or 105 amps its spinning at the same speed and putting the same strain on the engine. So if you tap into the extra 60 amps to run the converter do hicky which from my understanding is only a few amps you haven't lost anything.
"Quote"
If that's the real question, then the real answer is no.
I'm not saying it will but I am open to the idea of "what if"
"Quote"
30 mpg is achievable on gasoline alone, on stock fuel injected thirdgen engines. Read the DIYPROM forum, or do searches for "highway mode". Some of the guys that have enabled that in their proms have gotten 30 hiway mpg with v8's.
I can believe that I regularly knock down 26 with my cruise set at 75 and I haven't changed my plugs cap or rotor in 3 years. Now imagine with a fuel adder maybe we could hit 35, 40 MPG
"Quote"
Great. The problem with that sort of thing is that hydrogen is still not an energy source. You can't refine it from crude. You can't ferment biomattter to produce it. You have to take energy from another (fuel) source, and manufacture it, and there are energy losses in those processes, as well.
Actually you kinda can... You use solar or wind power to produce electricity and use the electrode process "refine" the "crude" rain water to get the hydrogen out it, then use the hydrogen to power cars and make electricity which in turn produces clean water and the cycle begins again.
"Quote"
Anyone who would put any sort of Honda powerplant in their Fbody, should have their Fbodies taken away, and condemned to an eternity of driving Hondas.
OK I do agree with that. I'm just saying if the technology advanced enough to the point where the electric engines were making say 280HP (which has been done) or more and I could use a solar panel and the rain water off my roof to make the fuel for it IE free... Don't tell me if GM made something like that you wouldn't think about it. Also don't kid yourself about import power they can make just as much power as us with their fart cans(although it costs more). Besides your kidding yourself if you don't think half the **** our cars are made of wasn't made in tawain.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89RS_82Z
lol...... but dont knock hondas me and a friend both got vtec v6 accords that are simply bad ***, and still get way high MPG even driving it like you stole it, cant say much for a civic, or 4 cly accord......
but on a serrious note, im sure someone has allready built a hybrd set up in a classic/muscle car..... got to ride in a hybrd tahoe this weekend (6.0 V8 for the gas end) and it was peppy for a soccer mom ride, it would take alot to put one in a car.... i would like to see one, i wouldnt buy it or vote for it best in show, but would like to see
BTW, waiting on my friend with the civic to decide to build this hyd. crap box and see what (if any ) results we get
At my work we got a rental because someone broke our trucks window.. Its a 08 Hydai (can't even spell it) Sonata V6... Any given day of the week it will take my firebird up untill you hit about 45.
Last edited by Formula_Fire; 07-13-2008 at 11:24 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
What I meant is that regaurdless of cars amp draw the alternator is regulating weither its 60 amps or 105 amps its spinning at the same speed and putting the same strain on the engine. So if you tap into the extra 60 amps to run the converter do hicky which from my understanding is only a few amps you haven't lost anything.
Sorry man, but the strain on the engine changes depending upon the load on the alternator. As the regulator increases the rotor current to generate more electricity, it becomes harder to turn.
Sorry man, but the strain on the engine changes depending upon the load on the alternator. As the regulator increases the rotor current to generate more electricity, it becomes harder to turn.
Yea, they dont realize that you dont need a clutch to make a variable torque on the engine (via the belt), magnetism does a good job at it too. But hey, if these morons want to ignore the laws of thermodynamics, i'm sure they're fine with ignoring anything regarding electro-magnetism. I mean, that stuff is really complicated to get a grasp of, with dot products and vector math and what not determining the magnetic field in relation to the direction of current. blah blah blah.
On a side note. There have already been more than one third gen camaro made fully electric. For drag racing. Electric drag cars are poking into the 11 second range, which is plenty fast for me, and these are regular dumb cars not all carbon fiber'd up. Plus electric cars have like 1/10th of the moving parts as a gas engine, maintenance is a joke. And considering the up front cost and maintenance, you still pay for the setup in only 2-3 years by not buying gasoline.
I'm going all electric (soon as the damn housing market bottoms out and lets me buy a place for a reasonable amount of money). There's more than enough muscle in electric motors, and with the new lithium ferrite polymer type batteries finally reaching the market, the last of the big hurdles is coming to pass (range).
In a nutshell:
Any conductor moving through a magnetic field has a current induced in it.
Any current moving through a conductor produces a magnetic field.
Any current carrying conductor moving through a magnetic field has a force applied to it.
The water is not fuel. The hydrogen is. The same energy you would get from burning the hydrogen is the energy you put into separating it from the oxygen, less the inefficiencies present in each reaction. The short of it is that it's like if I borrow 5 quarters from you to pay back the dollar I owe you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula_Fire
I'm not saying it will but I am open to the idea of "what if"
Me too. I'm open to any fuel mileage improving ideas. This one doesn't work. Move on to the next one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula_Fire
Actually you kinda can... You use solar or wind power to produce electricity and use the electrode process "refine" the "crude" rain water to get the hydrogen out it, then use the hydrogen to power cars and make electricity which in turn produces clean water and the cycle begins again.
If when wind/solar power ever starts to develop. There's two technologies right there that need a swift kick in the pants to get moving. This would require a substantial increase in electrical generating capacity...otherwise you're just shifting energy load from one heavily loaded source, to another (petrol to electric). Fuel went from around $1/gal to around $4/gal in 8 years. Electricity could just as easily go from $0.10/kWhr to $0.40/kWhr with that much extra demand.
I'm all for it, if some alternative electricity sources could be developed a little bit faster than they are right now.
Even if this were to happen, hydrogen is more suited to running it through a fuel cell to power an electric, than to burn in an internal combustion engine. IIRC, pure hydrogen, by itself, has a pretty low octane rating. BOOM!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula_Fire
OK I do agree with that. I'm just saying if the technology advanced enough to the point where the electric engines were making say 280HP (which has been done) or more and I could use a solar panel and the rain water off my roof to make the fuel for it IE free... Don't tell me if GM made something like that you wouldn't think about it.
There's no problem making electric motors that strong. Locomotives have been using 1000HP traction motors for a long time. The problem is in making them light enough, and cost effective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula_Fire
Also don't kid yourself about import power they can make just as much power as us with their fart cans
Maybe more hp/liter, or hp/weight, but not more total power. It's irrelevant anyway, as the point isn't to make the most power/go faster. The point is to look/sound good while doing it. Try and do that in a honda...
Yea, they dont realize that you dont need a clutch to make a variable torque on the engine (via the belt), magnetism does a good job at it too. But hey, if these morons want to ignore the laws of thermodynamics, i'm sure they're fine with ignoring anything regarding electro-magnetism. I mean, that stuff is really complicated to get a grasp of, with dot products and vector math and what not determining the magnetic field in relation to the direction of current. blah blah blah.
Hey man no need to go name calling and revert to 2nd grade by calling people morons. I do realize that the more amp draw there is creates a strain on the engine but considering I run a 800watt amp on my car and I don't notice a difference in performance I seriously doubt the 5 to 10 amps that this system is supposed to draw will do anything. My point was that with the little extra its no different than having your interior light on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by safemode
On a side note. There have already been more than one third gen camaro made fully electric. For drag racing. Electric drag cars are poking into the 11 second range, which is plenty fast for me, and these are regular dumb cars not all carbon fiber'd up. Plus electric cars have like 1/10th of the moving parts as a gas engine, maintenance is a joke. And considering the up front cost and maintenance, you still pay for the setup in only 2-3 years by not buying gasoline.
I wonder where the electronic parts for that come from? Bet you their located somewhere near where the parts that honda uses are made lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by safemode
I'm going all electric (soon as the damn housing market bottoms out and lets me buy a place for a reasonable amount of money). There's more than enough muscle in electric motors, and with the new lithium ferrite polymer type batteries finally reaching the market, the last of the big hurdles is coming to pass (range).
Ok that kinda just proved my point you'd do it now, now imagine it costs you nothing to fuel it. All you need is a solar panel on your roof and some water from the rain last night...
Before I get everyone jumping down my throat I'm not saying this scam they are selling works and theres no way I am gonna buy it. I'm just saying it is based on some real tech that could work.
Seriously, the only way this will work is if the "zero point energy" has been tapped and you can create a system with given electronics to produce several hundred percent more gas than electrical energy used by the system. Which I stated earlier, some people have claimed to achieve this. Thats really the end of the arguement or "discussion."
They claimed a 60% increase in their first report. OMG GREATEST THING EVAR! Then after a slightly more accurate test they came back with 10% increase from 11.8mpg to 13mpg, AND they mention a few people using that product keep blowing fuses... hmmm...
I run a 800watt amp on my car and I don't notice a difference in performance
Your 800-watt amp does not draw 800 watts of power. And even if it did, it'd amount to about 2 horsepower (assuming approx. 50% efficiency for the alternater)
Quote:
I wonder where the electronic parts for that come from? Bet you their located somewhere near where the parts that honda uses are made lol.
near =/= at. that's like saying honda built your sony dvd player, just because they both come from the same country...
Quote:
Ok that kinda just proved my point you'd do it now, now imagine it costs you nothing to fuel it. All you need is a solar panel on your roof and some water from the rain last night...
and the power the solar panel made last week would get your electric car 10 miles down the road...
wanna hear about a great fuel-saving device i've invented? it's a grappling hook... toss it at a semi on the highway and let it pull yer car. much lower initial investment than a HHO generator and logarithmically bigger returns.
Chrysler had a hydrogen engine ready to go back in the late 90s. They had plans to install it on city buses in NYC and L.A. until the U.S. government stepped in and stopped them.
Funny, mechanical transportation started in the 1800s with hydrogen/steam power and now we are trying desperately to get back to it.
Yeah it sounds crazy in a way. It's just that, they are trying to come up with some eco friendly alternatives than the usual diesel, gas, etc which seems to be pricey nowadays. Nut other than that the particular site is not the only one who has this agenda and they are just a part of it.
well guys i know o guy that made his own system, and it works, on a 3 hour drive he use to burn 55$ in his dodge ram, after he put in his system 35$ for the same run so sounds like it works to me.
well guys i know o guy that made his own system, and it works, on a 3 hour drive he use to burn 55$ in his dodge ram, after he put in his system 35$ for the same run so sounds like it works to me.
Thank you for the irrefutable scientific proof! I'm sold on it now!
Yep, time to put it to bed. I'm tired of getting the emails in my inbox on this thread for the past 9 mos.
And could the $55 vs. $35 have anything to do with the fact that gas was $4.00/gal. in July but now is only $1.70/gal.?
That wouldn't have anything to do with it because the numbers don't add up. Not only am I running a hydrogen booster now on my 1989 TA but I am also using water injection. I get around 4 to 5 mpg's more depending on where I get my gas from. Also if the price spread is at least 20% I run E-85 in it.
Will someone lock this thread? Please? There are five pages here of people explaining that because of the laws of thermodynamics that this system is a physical impossibility. You will use more power breaking down water into H2 and O2 than you will earn by burning either. And then there are replies to all of those posts along the lines of, "NUH UH!!"
This topic is over our heads. It is useless without proven factual information. Not a few dumb@sses saying "nope" or "yep".
Is it possible? Sure. Your post makes sense TheScaryOne, but we don't know everything about the universe, but until someone can show evidence that is not worthwhile with what we are currently given, then I see no reason to knock it. I haven't seen anyone trying to make any money off of it.
This thread doesn't need locked, people just need to stop posting spam. If you don't want to hear anymore about it-remove it from your notification list.
I'm sure this isn't the worst thing that "pops up" in your email either. Free porn? Penis pills? "Hi my name is Anuk Muck Muck Nuk, I need help with my bank". I'll forward you my spam.
Last time I checked, the only internal combustion engine to run on water was in a boat. Well technically I guess the boat ran on water and the engine ran on traditional fuels. Yep, that boat could run on water all day long, unless it sank of course.....kinda like this thread did. This same debate rages on several different websites with no end in sight. I vote to lock this thread! This website deals with thirdgen related items and I am very greatful for it. This thread however has not gotten anywhere except tying up server space.
Last edited by lowflyr; 01-27-2009 at 04:43 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Lol. Its in the aftermarket product review section, and there aren't any pictures, so its hardly taking up any space. A couple guys on here have said they know someone that have tried it with similar results and it did what it was supposed to.
Are they lying? Are they trying to sell something? What benefit do they have for pulling your leg? You'd have gotten your tongue cut out 600 years ago for saying the earth was round.
I just don't care to research it, but the info might be very useful in the near future. Stop whining.
) results we get 
Watch out though, you can't change your mind with the grappling hook. 
