89RS_82Z

lol...... but dont knock hondas me and a friend both got vtec v6 accords that are simply bad ***, and still get way high MPG even driving it like you stole it, cant say much for a civic, or 4 cly accord......

but on a serrious note, im sure someone has allready built a hybrd set up in a classic/muscle car..... got to ride in a hybrd tahoe this weekend (6.0 V8 for the gas end) and it was peppy for a soccer mom ride, it would take alot to put one in a car.... i would like to see one, i wouldnt buy it or vote for it best in show, but would like to see

BTW, waiting on my friend with the civic to decide to build this hyd. crap box and see what (if any ) results we get

black89ws6

I don't have a problem with hondas. They get good mileage, that's a purpose they serve well. I've got a truck, a 'bird, and a cavalier. A hauler, a fun car, and a mileage car. When next the mileage car gets replaced, it may be by a honda.

It would still be sacrilege to put a honda powerplant in an fbody.

Formula_Fire

U know what I meant the alternator can put out more than the vehical can use.

Formula_Fire

QUOTE black89ws6
Not the same thing. That is adding additional fuel. The mileage increased because the propane was not included in the mileage calculation, even though it contributed to the engine output.

Right I agree except it is the similar as you are adding additional fuel...water.

"Quote"
Although this is true, I'm not quite certain what you mean...You're average 105 amp alternator uses an amp or two to maintain the rotor field when at full output.

What I meant is that regaurdless of cars amp draw the alternator is regulating weither its 60 amps or 105 amps its spinning at the same speed and putting the same strain on the engine. So if you tap into the extra 60 amps to run the converter do hicky which from my understanding is only a few amps you haven't lost anything.

"Quote"
If that's the real question, then the real answer is no.

I'm not saying it will but I am open to the idea of "what if"

"Quote"
30 mpg is achievable on gasoline alone, on stock fuel injected thirdgen engines. Read the DIYPROM forum, or do searches for "highway mode". Some of the guys that have enabled that in their proms have gotten 30 hiway mpg with v8's.

I can believe that I regularly knock down 26 with my cruise set at 75 and I haven't changed my plugs cap or rotor in 3 years. Now imagine with a fuel adder maybe we could hit 35, 40 MPG

"Quote"
Great. The problem with that sort of thing is that hydrogen is still not an energy source. You can't refine it from crude. You can't ferment biomattter to produce it. You have to take energy from another (fuel) source, and manufacture it, and there are energy losses in those processes, as well.

Actually you kinda can... You use solar or wind power to produce electricity and use the electrode process "refine" the "crude" rain water to get the hydrogen out it, then use the hydrogen to power cars and make electricity which in turn produces clean water and the cycle begins again.

"Quote"
Anyone who would put any sort of Honda powerplant in their Fbody, should have their Fbodies taken away, and condemned to an eternity of driving Hondas.

OK I do agree with that. I'm just saying if the technology advanced enough to the point where the electric engines were making say 280HP (which has been done) or more and I could use a solar panel and the rain water off my roof to make the fuel for it IE free... Don't tell me if GM made something like that you wouldn't think about it. Also don't kid yourself about import power they can make just as much power as us with their fart cans(although it costs more). Besides your kidding yourself if you don't think half the **** our cars are made of wasn't made in tawain.
----------
At my work we got a rental because someone broke our trucks window.. Its a 08 Hydai (can't even spell it) Sonata V6... Any given day of the week it will take my firebird up untill you hit about 45.

Formula_Fire

I will say this and electric hybrid would never sound as cool as a gas V8.

Toehead

Sorry man, but the strain on the engine changes depending upon the load on the alternator. As the regulator increases the rotor current to generate more electricity, it becomes harder to turn.

safemode

Yea, they dont realize that you dont need a clutch to make a variable torque on the engine (via the belt), magnetism does a good job at it too. But hey, if these morons want to ignore the laws of thermodynamics, i'm sure they're fine with ignoring anything regarding electro-magnetism. I mean, that stuff is really complicated to get a grasp of, with dot products and vector math and what not determining the magnetic field in relation to the direction of current. blah blah blah.



On a side note. There have already been more than one third gen camaro made fully electric. For drag racing. Electric drag cars are poking into the 11 second range, which is plenty fast for me, and these are regular dumb cars not all carbon fiber'd up. Plus electric cars have like 1/10th of the moving parts as a gas engine, maintenance is a joke. And considering the up front cost and maintenance, you still pay for the setup in only 2-3 years by not buying gasoline.

I'm going all electric (soon as the damn housing market bottoms out and lets me buy a place for a reasonable amount of money). There's more than enough muscle in electric motors, and with the new lithium ferrite polymer type batteries finally reaching the market, the last of the big hurdles is coming to pass (range).

Toehead

Just in case they want to verify my claims
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday...w_of_induction

In a nutshell:
Any conductor moving through a magnetic field has a current induced in it.
Any current moving through a conductor produces a magnetic field.
Any current carrying conductor moving through a magnetic field has a force applied to it.

black89ws6

The water is not fuel. The hydrogen is. The same energy you would get from burning the hydrogen is the energy you put into separating it from the oxygen, less the inefficiencies present in each reaction. The short of it is that it's like if I borrow 5 quarters from you to pay back the dollar I owe you.Me too. I'm open to any fuel mileage improving ideas. This one doesn't work. Move on to the next one.
If when wind/solar power ever starts to develop. There's two technologies right there that need a swift kick in the pants to get moving. This would require a substantial increase in electrical generating capacity...otherwise you're just shifting energy load from one heavily loaded source, to another (petrol to electric). Fuel went from around $1/gal to around $4/gal in 8 years. Electricity could just as easily go from $0.10/kWhr to $0.40/kWhr with that much extra demand.
I'm all for it, if some alternative electricity sources could be developed a little bit faster than they are right now.
Even if this were to happen, hydrogen is more suited to running it through a fuel cell to power an electric, than to burn in an internal combustion engine. IIRC, pure hydrogen, by itself, has a pretty low octane rating. BOOM!

There's no problem making electric motors that strong. Locomotives have been using 1000HP traction motors for a long time. The problem is in making them light enough, and cost effective.

Maybe more hp/liter, or hp/weight, but not more total power. It's irrelevant anyway, as the point isn't to make the most power/go faster. The point is to look/sound good while doing it. Try and do that in a honda...

Formula_Fire

Hey man no need to go name calling and revert to 2nd grade by calling people morons. I do realize that the more amp draw there is creates a strain on the engine but considering I run a 800watt amp on my car and I don't notice a difference in performance I seriously doubt the 5 to 10 amps that this system is supposed to draw will do anything. My point was that with the little extra its no different than having your interior light on.

I wonder where the electronic parts for that come from? Bet you their located somewhere near where the parts that honda uses are made lol.

Ok that kinda just proved my point you'd do it now, now imagine it costs you nothing to fuel it. All you need is a solar panel on your roof and some water from the rain last night...

Before I get everyone jumping down my throat I'm not saying this scam they are selling works and theres no way I am gonna buy it. I'm just saying it is based on some real tech that could work.

Keoman

Seriously, the only way this will work is if the "zero point energy" has been tapped and you can create a system with given electronics to produce several hundred percent more gas than electrical energy used by the system. Which I stated earlier, some people have claimed to achieve this. Thats really the end of the arguement or "discussion."

black89ws6

Woohoo!! I want one with dual overhead ZPM's!!

Keoman

black89ws6

Zero Point Module. Source of zero-point energy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Point_Module

Keoman

Why not make it 3? The more the merrier

black89ws6

2 is enough. 3 is a crowd.

Toehead

lol

smgseanmicheal

....................................... *cry* my camaro gets 8-10 mpg

black89ws6

Then it's heavily modified, or severely malfunctioning.

XxCoLTxX

LOL

GMan 3MT

About time that news station updated their story... (from earlier in the thread)

http://www.wptv.com/news/local/story...3-b0dd76f2cebc

They claimed a 60% increase in their first report. OMG GREATEST THING EVAR! Then after a slightly more accurate test they came back with 10% increase from 11.8mpg to 13mpg, AND they mention a few people using that product keep blowing fuses... hmmm...

The guy driving it for the past month had one of these installed...
http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main...products_id=41
saying "he felt the device gave his vehicle more pep"

el_muerte

Your 800-watt amp does not draw 800 watts of power. And even if it did, it'd amount to about 2 horsepower (assuming approx. 50% efficiency for the alternater)

near =/= at. that's like saying honda built your sony dvd player, just because they both come from the same country...