safemode

dyno it before you put it on, then after. If it works, it should noticably increase hp/tq in the dyno run. Nothing less is going to be worth mentioning.

Though, what you will see instead is a decrease if anything at all.

Also, consider this. If the alternator is recieving constant power regardless of it's output (based on rpm of course), then you'd get the most heat with the least amount of electrical draw, since by definition, any increase in electrical draw (like turning the megawatt stereo on) would lessen the amount of energy available to be heat since it would be going into the electrical energy used in the stereo. So, your alternator would cool down with the more load it's under at a given rpm. Does that make sense to you? cuz that sounds stupid to me.

The extra energy the alternator gets comes from the magnetic field the alternator uses to correct the voltage for the load it's under, as the current draw increases, the magnetic field increases causing the pulley to get harder to turn, which in turn causes the engine to have to increase fueling to maintain rpm.

Now you may say, will if this is true, then there must be a point where the alternator can't reduce the drag of the pully anymore (since maybe the magnetic field is very low) and the engine can't get to a low enough rpm and the pully is absorbing more mechanical energy than the alternator requires to produce the current needed. You'd be correct, but this waste energy only exists while the alternator is under no load, because it's extremely small. The minute you put a load on the alternator, you've introduced a magnetic field that begins to make it harder for the engine to do its job and thus you are not operating in the "wasted energy" zone you thought you were.

All in all, i dont think you'll see a difference either way in the grand scheme. And i dont think you'll get it dynoed to prove it. So this stupid topic will get repeated over and over again.

master_disaster

correct me if im wrong but isnt HHO a retarded way of putting down H2O? as in water? That being said wouldnt logical thought say that 1. that site looks kinda iffy, and 2. they are making up a "fake" term to spice up the idea of water? i dunno i dont believe it'll work all i could think of when i first heard of it was....what about hydrolock if something goes wrong????????? THe claim of no engine modification and running it on water just doesnt seem right or else we wouldnt fear water in our engines so much

askulte

HHO is Brown's gas (check wikipedia). Basically a mix of H2 and 02 gas.

eagle_eyes

isn't H2O2 hydrogen peroxide?? Brown's Gas is really 2H2O (2 parts water) separated into 2H2 and O2 (4 Hydrogen, 2 Oxygen). if you take half of that, you still get H2O...i don't see where the gas is coming from. I also don't see how you can break down water, use energy from it, and still come out with water as a byproduct?? where did the energy come from then??

http://www.brownsgas.com/brownsgaswaterasfuel.html

i don't think it would be that easy.

CHAMARO

Your question here is valid and I dont think I am quilifed to answer. I would venture to guess that efficiency would not increase significantly, if at all. However in addition I would ask what affect water vapor would have upon the mechanical workings of the engine. Namely the cylinder walls and piston rings. Water vapor is mixing with oil, or sitting in the combustion chamber while the engine is not running would not be a good thing. Also, would the weight of the added components in the vehicle overcome any added boost in efficiency by reducing the power to weight ratio? I am by no means an engineer, just addin fuel to the fire. Oh also there are a lot of hydrogren converson plans going around right now that are similar to this in concept. I have read them and it is a croc of sh*t.
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Oh, also, creating a hybrid fuel source in a vehicle will significantly change the octane of that fuel and therfore ignition timing and compression ratio should be taken into account.

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eagle_eyes

safemode

when you mix hydrogen gas around with oxygen gas, your hydrogen's pair up together and oxygen's pair up together. So you have this solution of hydrogen and oxygen gas, it's not a molecule like water is, or a compound, it's just a solution.

But yea, it's all BS. It relies completely on the assumption that your alternator is wasting energy that can be reclaimed by putting it under higher load, and this reclaimed energy can be transferred from electricity, to the separation of water and then the subsequent combustion of the hydrogen and oxygen gas along with your normal air fuel mixture. You lose a lot of energy in the process and its source energy (the electricity from the alternator) is only around 300watts. So even if 100% of the energy we use for hydrolysis can be reclaimed, we're only talking less than half a horsepower. Now the real BS is that they claim that what they really do is allow you to burn fuel that you normally wouldn't be able to, thus providing more than half a horsepower in gains. If your car is tuned and operating like it should, then their claims fall apart.

So moral of the story is.
Less than half a horsepower doesn't equal noticable gains. (not unless you're a top dragster)
Doing hydrolysis to make up for a badly tuned car is retarded.
If you want to save fuel, hypermile and get things thrown at your car, or buy an electric one.

But by all means, waste your money and try it out. Drive it around and convince yourself it's working but never take it to a dyno to prove yourself wrong. While you're at it, use acetone in your fuel too and the tornado and dont forget to mist your intake with water vapor, cuz god knows you're not getting enough water in that E15 regular grade crap fuel that everyone uses now.

It's amazing how much people are willing to spend on stupid idiotic ideas to save a little money when the free alternative (drive like grandma) works 100% guaranteed.

fychelio

well i make and sell hydrogen cells the basic one costs $150 a more high end model i make runs about 350 if anyones intrested. email me ill send pics

safemode

this topic has nothing to do with hydrogen fuel cells, or it's use.

89RS_82Z

he aint going to dyno it, he dont really care about HP, all he wants to see is if it will actually make a diff in the MPG's, but more HP can get more MPG's , but pretty much he just wants to see if it can gain any MPG's, either or result will not mean a darn thing to him or me its just a test to see if it can get anymore MPG, but i will post up what we find out........ i predict no change

safemode

the thing is, he's going to alter how he drives either consciously or subconsciously when he is trying to save gas and show his results. Thus the only worthwhile measurement for more efficiency is seeing the increase in hp on the dyno which would have to result. Any other test is worthless and proves nothing because it's not controlled in any way. driving behevavior has a thousand times more of an effect than anything he can add to his fuel.

89RS_82Z

his car has two speeds.......stop, and go

we are going to work up an average of over 5 tanks of gas each way. atleast get a close idea..........unless someone will pay pal the $$$$ for the dyno

black89ws6

Camaros are green. Gas is bad for the environment. Camaros burn up the gas. Therefore, camaros are good for the environment.

Prius is such a gay looking car. I'd rather get 27mpg in a camaro, with $4 gas,and no ****s in my ***, than drive a prius.

DCOWBOYS1975

Thats what I am talking about!!!! I get about 15 mpg and I wouldn't change it for nothin'! V-8 Chevy here on out!!

Trey

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micktroup

Guys, a basic law of physics- you can't get MORE energy out than you put in. Having said that, have you noticed that Detroit is losing BILLIONS as we speak? Don't you thing that the first car company that installed a device the increased fuel efficency would make MILLIONS before Labor Day? Follow the money- this idea is SNAKE OIL...

DirtyCanadian

there has been inventions that improve mileage but the oil companies are rich enough to buy the patent, dont believe me look it up. and off topic a new hydrogen station in my city just popped up.

micktroup

See my first sentence... other than that, GLAD TO SEE THE ALUMINUM HAT FITS JUST RIGHT!!

resinlake

Well I have some free time being off from Delphi and all, so I might as well put this all together and there's a dyno down town so if I can, I'll run the dyno before and after. I've gone over the system a few times and it looks plausible on paper, real life results? We'll have to wait and see. There is a part about the O2 sensor and a thread in sleeve that keeps it about 3/4 to 1 inch out of the exhaust stream as with the HHO system 'the ecm starts to see extra hydrogen which it interprets as oxygen.' Can't tell the difference? One of my concerns was the water vapor and back flow so my solution as I've come to find others have put into place is to just use an inline water/oil separator like that which I use with airbrush/paint work and a check valve to keep the hydrogen from flowing back into the container where the hydrolysis takes place. I didn't read all of the posts but something to keep in mind also is that the hydrogen can increase your head/intake temp, I was told around 40+ degrees so I'll be watching that close. If anyone else has already put this to work, please feel free to pm me with any thoughts or suggestions on safety/effectiveness.

Thanks
-Res

titan

The O2 sensor isn't seeing the hydrogen. The O2 sensor is expecting to see a certain amount of oxygen coming out of the engine. If it doesn't, it will instruct the ECM to add more fuel. Basically, it thinks your running lean, and tries to compensate. This in return may in fact increase power, since the ECM has told the engine to use more fuel. Without modifying the sensor you will not see optimum mileage gains. I'm not so sure about the sleeve. It seems like a hit or miss attempt to change the reading from the O2. Everyone is using a piece called an EFIE, which introduces voltage to the signal already generated by the O2 sensor, thus tricking the ECM into thinking the sensor is still seeing the usual amount of oxygen. It's adjustable for precise tuning. There is also a way to trick the MAF/MAP to achieve the same effect. Lastly, this is for mileage, not power. I see alot of dyno requests, and don't see how that would prove anything. Personally I think setting up a container with say 4 cups of fuel in it. Crank car and let it idle until it burns all 4 cups. Time it. Now do the same 4 cups but with the device running, and compare idle times. If you're really burning less gas, it will idle longer. Takes out the "you subconsciously drove slower" idea. Make sure the engine is warm before you begin both tests. Simple enough...

Toehead

Laws of thermodynamics are pretty much the bottom line. If it doesn't conform to these laws, it won't work. You can't get something from nothing.

Keoman

You are not getting something from nothing. Thats like saying when you fill up your car with gasoline, afterwards when you turn it on, you're getting free energy to drive down the road from this liquid in your tank. Believe it or not, you are acctually adding energy when you fill your car with water and/or gasoline.
As for how to split the water, research the Voltage Intesifier Circut. Voltage is said to hold a huge amount of potential energy, which has been claimed to be used to unlease the true power of water for the last 10 years or so. Does it work like that? Who knows. I have never seen a car that runs on water but who am I to say that something does or does not work. I have been researching hydrogen powered vehicles for about 2 years now. Some very interesting things have come to my attention over that time, but its just skepticle criticism because I dont really know. Behold the beauty of the internet.

Josh

DCOWBOYS1975

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Keoman

In equal quantities, hydrogen is much more volitle than gasoline, meaning it packs more "bang for the buck". If you have not seen the commercials, they make cutting torches and welders that run on water that burn pure browns gas (hydrogen and oxygen). If you were to ignite pure browns gas inside of an internal combustion engine, I'm thinking over a period of 5 minutes you would have a molten chunk of steel sitting on your driveway underneath where your hood used to be. However, introducing ambiant air (breathable air) into the browns gas retards it from igniting at such a rapid rate thus controlling the burning process.
All in all, I would say that "running a car on water" wouldn't hurt your performance in the least. Its adding fuel that is several times more potent than gasoline. The only thing I would be worried about is replacing conventional steel valves with stainless and definatly a stainless exhaust system. After all, the by product of burning browns gas is water vapor, which has been known to "customize" some exhaust's over the years.

Josh

DCOWBOYS1975

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madmax