iroc a 86 berli

uh what? glad i didnt help

89RsPower!

sorry I thought it was kinda obvious it was a joke

STRIKER911

iTrader: (1)

lol. ya sorry about that. I posted in the wrong thread.

Shadygrady

iTrader: (3)

I`ve been running the mobile 1 5-30 lately,But my engine is new from gm pushing 19,000 miles.I`ve heard on the newer engines too thick oil can be a bad thing.I`ve read with todays technology and tighter tolerences in the engine a light synthetic is better.I did run 20-50 in my 150,000 mile 305 before I yanked it.

STRIKER911

iTrader: (1)

All this talk about oil made me think. How bad is it to mix oil? I didnt know the car called for 5-30 so i put in 3 quarts of 10-30 then 2 of the 5-30. Thoughs on that one?

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

not really going to hurt anything by doing that, even on a new car

my honda calls for 5-20 thats what i run in it, i may run 5-30 once it hits 70,000 miles

everything else gets 20-50

89RsPower!

That's kind of true. Unless something is worn enough to require the thicker oil it's possible that you could raise the oil pressure too much and trashing seals and cause some leaks. It's also possible to cause serious internal damage if you put something in so thick that it's hard for the oil pump to physically pump it. A good example would be that crap they sell as "motor honey", you know the kind of crap in a can that comes out real thick that they sell to "restore" worn engines? I had a friend that had a car with slight rod knock, he put 1 quart of that crap in and said it sounded a lot better. Seeing how more is always better he added another quart, that's when it stopped running.

iroc a 86 berli

this is very true. newer vehicles that are equiped with variable valve timing/lift are designed to run 5w20. thicker oil causes problems in the oil actuator valves and passages that control valve lift and valve timing curves. in some cases ive seen cars that have 10000 miles and run very rough but dont set any codes, turns out jiffy lube put 10w30 in a 5w20 engine

pont_transam86

ok the deal with oils is 5w-30 for example(5) is the cold weight of the oil (basically like a morning startup temp) it is not the winter rating of the oil or anything of the sort and (30) is the weight at operating temp and from what ive seen people who use heavy weight oil to fix worn ring or other worn out problems are only making things worse because their actually causing more strain on the oil pump and this will eventually lead to failure and their also making the parts wear out even sooner because the pumps cant move enough oil anything more than 20w50 your risking it, in colder climates usually you dont wanna go more than 15w 50 (summer startup temps) and for winter just go with a 5w40 full syn if it gets below 40 degrees out on a regular basis syns are just as thick just slightly lighter and better lubrication properties

pont_transam86

oh and for the filter most of the thirdgens are a pain check things like with or w/o anti drainback and the notes sections at the bottoms of the pages that nobody ever looks at and if still nothing then it coulda been a fake i mean this is autozone were talking about not an actual performance oriented chain of stores they are for people who dont wanna pay the extra for quality parts
just my thoughts on the subject

89RsPower!

You can word it however you want, call it the "morning startup temp" or whatever makes you happy. The fact is the W in a multiviscosity oil stands for Winter. Here's a good explanation if you'd like to read up further.. kind of a boring topic tho.. http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb30714.htm

iroc a 86 berli

nicely put, u beat me to it

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Hey guys,

I got about 6000-7000 miles on my 305 motor since the rebuild. I did an oil change last summer at the beggining of the summer and I told the mechanic to put in synthetic oil because it's better. I'm not sure what brand he put in but I think he said castrol synthetic, that was about 1000 miles ago. Either way, what synthetic oil should I put in when I take my car out of storage this saturday and change the oil. And should I change the oil FIRST and then start the car (I haven't driven it since November, 5 months ago, and it's been sitting in the garage) or should I start the car and then drive it around for a bit to warm everything up and then change the oil+filter. I'm gonna put the k&n hp2002 filter on as well.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

I recommend Royal Purple. I use Royal Purple 10w30 and K&N HP2002 in my KITT and he has a Crossfire LU5 305 V8. there still no problems and it runs better!!!

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

My 305 makes about 271hp at the flywheel and has a cam, ported polished heads, forged internals, new everything.. Is 10w30 Royal Purple the best of the best? I thought Castrol Synthetic was the best?

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

Awesome what did you use for performance parts

I would not recomend Castrol or Penzoil they are pretty much average when campared Mobil 1 or Royal Purple. Royal Purple is the best and Mobil 1 is second best.

iroc a 86 berli

ams oil is better then rp and mb1 imo. RP is overpriced, and its purple. pennzoil suxs, and sluges easy. castrol is pretty much mobile, alot of oil is just repackaged for profit.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Crap! I bought 1 Qrt of Pennzoil Synthetic.. Guess I'll just bring it back! Ialso bought Pennzoil brake fluid, power steering fluid, and automatic transmission fluid at the same time!

So I guess I will go with Mobil 1 synthetic then. I think that will be good enough.

Also, once I flush out the old fluid out, how many qrts of mobil 1 do I need to put in to fill it up good? I heard that putting in 4 qrts and then slowly fill till it reaches the max point is the best way... Thoughts?

iroc a 86 berli

dont be a dipstick, use it! fill it to full on the dip stick, start it for a few seconds, shut it off, wipe the stick and check again, depending on the filter it should take another qt for a total of 5 qts

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Hahaha I guess I am a dipstick sometimes!

So I suppose that I will put in 3 qrts and then continue filling slowly until the dipstick says it's full!

Also, going back to original topic. I will let you guys know if the k&n hp2002 filter fits on my 305, it should i think.
Thanks!

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

Use 5 quarts of Royal Purple. it is the best of the best and you won't regret it!

89RsPower!

If possible always fill the oil filter up before installing it, expecially a higher capacity oil filter. Think about it this way, if you have a filter that holds a whole quart and you put it on dry your engine is basically running without oil pressure until the filter fills up, dry starts arn't a good thing.

92formula12

go old school 40w kendall high performance

theimpaler68

iTrader: (1)

most oil is all the same when it comes to conventional. except pennzoil because it is garbage in a bottle. synthetics royal purple is the best, am soil second. those 2 are in a catagory of their own. the big names come next. castrol and moble are the same. havoline and gate and chevron are the same. quaker state and pennz are pretty much the same.

i see oil all day since i work in a lube shop. all different size filters on all different vehicles. i can tell you that if you run conventional oil and change your oil every 3000 miles like you should then you will notice the same coloration of oil in a smaller filter as in a bigger one. if you run regular synthetic oil as in the big names you can change oil every 6500 to 7500 miles and get the same coloration with a big or smaller filter. i know that am soil says 25,000 miles or one year but lets face it i am not leaving oil in my car for that long. royal purple i dont know mileage on but i konw that it does work better than the above.

i use castrol synthetic 10w30 i have no leaks. i use a fram tough guard filter and am very happy.

on a side note another benefit of synthetic is that because of being able to get into the tighter spots in your engine it does run cooler and synthetic oil doesnt tend to sludge up.

to the op sorry about your experience and thanks for the heads up.

paulo57509

Why is RP the best? Is there any documentation, tests, etc. available? Is it just reputation?

theimpaler68

iTrader: (1)

i read somewhere once that royal purples formula actually does increase hp "a little" because it cools better than the others. i would say that am soil is a very close second. i have asked around lots of places and people and rp does win out in the end for me by that vote. but as i said i use castrol sythetic. i dont feel the need to put the best of the best in a high performance daily driver that is not a full all out race or drag car. i did notice a difference however between conventional and synth. i run synth because of that. i still stand on choose for yourself and price the difference.

iroc a 86 berli

this guy says he is the best at 9.99 a qt http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/Dow...cingoil101.pdf

of course AMSOIL says there the best, but i wouldnt run there oil as long as the say it can. i had a customer that came in for a oil change every 25k and all that would come out of his engine was 2-3qts of sludge. http://www.oilsandlube.com/20w50%20Racing%20Oil.htm

however royal purple simply statse it increases hp and cools more effectively. http://www.royalpurple.com/why-use-rp.html

all of these oils are good, wich is the best, who knows with out lab testing them. but for now ill stick with what i know is good, and for my budget and needs valvoline racing conventional 20w50 will remain in my pan, its like 3$ a quart. i dont care if its not synthetic cause my car rarely gets run, and i have to change oil often from using alcohol.

theimpaler68

iTrader: (1)

i agree with go what works best. the 25k thing... i have seen first hand. when you drain a car that had am soil in it that long and what comes out looks like you are draining a f250 powerstoke diesel because the sluff is that black and sludgy just not something that i would use for that long. i would never keep oil in my car longer than 7500 miles on synth. and for you using alcohol i would run cheap too. i pay $22 for 5 qts. not bad then a $5 filter. then i just take the stuff to work and change the oil my self.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Royal Purple it is folks!

Klortho

I had a Dodge Intrepid that I ran Castrol Syntec in to 170k miles before the oil pump went out of it, pulled the motor and could still see the crosshatch in the cylinders. The crank just needed to be polished and the cams went back in the car.

I have Mobil 1 in my Mustang, and Syntec in the GTA with the LT1.

RP and Amsoil is way too expensive for my taste to not get much better oil than Mobil 1 or Syntec.

My '98 Trans Am I'm running 5-30 Castrol GTX with 156k miles and it idles at 40psi and yes, the oil filter is really small on it, almost as small as the one on my mom's MR2 with a 2.2 liter 4 cylinder.

paulo57509

http://www.imakenews.com/eletra/mod_...PM&uid=bdgDHkp

Jason89RS

iTrader: (2)

I've been thinking about this thread and some of the opinions stated and have a few questions/comments and I'm by no means a chemist or engineer.

1. One member stated that on high mileage engines you should be running something like 20w50. After thinking about this it seems to be the complete opposite of what you'd want to do. Since the first number is the viscosity when the oil is cold I would think you would want to run a lower viscosity oil so that it would flow better and faster at start up. From what I've read most of the engine wear happens between when you start a cold engine to the time it takes the oil to circulate. Seems to me that putting a thicker cold viscosity oil in would just increase this time it took the oil to circulate and cause more wear.

2. The discussion about the big vs. small oil filters. From what I've read and learned the more oil you have ciculating in the engine the cooler the oil is going to stay and the longer it's going to take to get dirty, so the biggest filter that fits in the spot would seem advantagous. Some other reasons that I don't think were mentioned for having a larger capacity oil pan is so that the oil pickup stays covered on very hard launches or extreme cornering like road racing or if you are running a high volume oil pump, but those are really specialized applications.

3. I've been thinking about this for awhile but haven't discussed it with anyone. Why is warming up the oil when using dual viscosity oils still recommended. It seems like you would want to drain your oil when it's cold. Not only would the oil be thinner but you wouldn't risk burning yourself and all of the oil has finished draining to the pan with all the contaiminats.

Anyway here's my synthetic success story. I had a 99 Silverado with the 4.8L brand new in 1999. I had the truck from 1999 - 2008 and sold it with 130,xxx miles on it. The truck still ran great didn't use any oil and didn't have any smoke when driving or at startup. I would change the oil and filter every 3000 - 4500 miles well before the change oil light would come and always used Mobil 1 oil in along with a quality filter (not Fram). I bet if you opened up the engine there would be insignificant wear and it would look pretty much like new.

Sonymaster20

iTrader: (3)

Royal purple is real good and I use it in both my cars. As for the filter, I use a Fram. They also make royal purple about a mile away from where I live to. Pretty cool lol.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

Take a tour of their facilities, you will be more than impressed with how CLEAN everything is. I watched a video about their facility, looked like a government project, everyone was wearing full white clean suites, everything was a clean room (no germs, no contaminants), everyone wears masks. This oil is made under the strictest of ways I swear...

STRIKER911

iTrader: (1)

[quote=Jason89RS;4132297]

1. One member stated that on high mileage engines you should be running something like 20w50. After thinking about this it seems to be the complete opposite of what you'd want to do. . Seems to me that putting a thicker cold viscosity oil in would just increase this time it took the oil to circulate and cause more wear.

I do not agree with running thicker oil, but to each his own. I can say that lucas oil is very thick, & works great. I will be using that as an additive from now on since it bonds to the metal, & sometimes my car knocks on start up.

What made since about using the thicker oil is the parts have more space between them due to wear. On the other hand it may over work a oil pump.


3. I've been thinking about this for awhile but haven't discussed it with anyone. Why is warming up the oil when using dual viscosity oils still recommended. It seems like you would want to drain your oil when it's cold.

My old bmw called for 20/50 syn, I used mobil 1. If the oil was not warmed up it took an hour, or more to drain it. It was just too thick when it was cold.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

I will confirm that the HP2002 K&N oil filter indeed DOES fit on my 86 305 TPI (for those who were wondering). I installed it yesterday and changed the oil and I put in 10W30 which I was told would be fine in my climate (summer driving, temps. from 5 degree celcius to 30 degree celcius.. with most days around 20 degree celcius)... What do y'all think?

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

its not the weight of the oil that protects an engine. it is the oils ability to travel thru the engine as fast as possible to protect it. remember the highest weight rating is start up weight. the lower is when the engine is warm. a 10w30 oil is 30w on start up and a 10w during warm running. using a 20w50 it is 50w on start up and 20w while running. as for the newer engines using smaller filters that is because there tolerances and better designs warrant a smaller filter. they can do it. our cars are not built to those specs. a 10w30 is about the best weight we can use. a bigger filter will not hurt anything. there will be a small amount more oil but that also means the oil is going thru more filter. i run a slightly longer filter but to me the factory one does good enough.

paulo57509

Incorrect. You have it backwards.

A 10w-30 oil (or any multi-viscosity oil) is a thin 10w at low temperatures and thickens to a 30SAE at high temperatures.

wildjyoung

iTrader: (6)

I do not want to correct anyone but also want to make sure the correct information is out there.

One 92RS you are absolutely correct. However, you have the weights reversed. The starting number is the weight when cold and the second number is the weight when hot. The weight of an oil is proportionate to viscosity and viscosity is temperature dependant. Viscosity is what protects your engine along with oil pressure. You should run as thin of an oil possible to maintain 10 PSI of oil pressure per 1,000 RPM. This is proven Engineering fact, not a myth. Anything more is not removing heat/lubrication and is not doing anything beneficial for your engine. Think logically, Is 30 PSI of oil pressure really going to stop thousands of pounds of force from combustion? No, you only have to maintain an oil wedge to keep metal seperated and keep lubricating agents on the metal.

When a car is first started, depending upon ambient temperature, the oil is very thick. This makes it hard to pump through the engine and you do not get adequate lubrication. Your engine is designed to run with oil at a viscosity of 12cs at 212 degrees F. Anything thicker or thinner is detrimental to your engine. At 50 degrees F a typical 5W30 oil has a viscosity of around 140cs. That is the whole purpose of a multi weight oil. To be thin as possible on start up but then maintain viscosity at operating temperature.

Below is an oil viscosity chart:

Oil type... Thickness at 75 F...Thickness at 212 F

10W-30............100......................10
0W-30..............40 ......................10


You will hear a lot of different information but what I have written above is Engineering fact. Let the rebuttals begin!

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

K&N Filters are the same thing as Mobil 1 filters. Compare it to the Mobil 1 filter for your car and see if they look the same except for the nut on the top.

Also a note on Castrol. I've heard people getting cams wiped by some blends of Amsoil and/or Royal Purple. The amounts of ZDDP in them seems to fluctuate here and there and you never know exactly what you're getting. I would assume Royal Purple, despite being ar acing oil, may well be aimed at newer performance cars.

Castrol makes their Syntec 20w-50 specifically with old school flat tappet cams in mind. The bottle should say something about being reformulated for classic cars.

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/gener...tentId=7032644

There may be a few other oils marketed specifically for us flat tappet guys, but Syntec is about the only synthetic Im 100 percent sure about putting in my car at this point.

http://www.ttalk.info/Zddp.htm

Do some research though, some of those "high mileage" oils actually just have extra ZDDP in them. And some have a whole bunch of extra crap you dont want flowing around in your motor.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/aehaas/index.html
i suppose to say thick or thin is prolly wrong. oil has a higher resistance to flow when cold then when hot. we call it thick or thin. they call it viscosity. oil pressure is higher when cold than when hot. when oil is heated it has less resistance to flow. more like a 10w oil. we say that oil is thick or thin. if oil actually thickened to 30w when hot our oil pressure would be low cold and higher when hot. but its the exact opposite. so i suppose we could say that oil has the viscosity of a 30w when cold an a 10w when hot so that is why the oil pressure is lower when hot. more or less when you drain a cold engine it is a higher viscosity and flows slowly. when it is hot it has less viscosity and flows like a thinner oil which fglows fast. so i suppose to normal people that are not scientist we say it is thick when cold and thinner when hot. even cooking oil is the same. thick when cold and thin when hot. i suppose we could argue the point to death. but facts remain that a hot oil acts as a thinner oil with viscosity improvers. but it is thinner when hot./

wildjyoung

iTrader: (6)

I think we are on the same page. It is just scary to see so many people using a 20W50 in a car that spends most of its life in a cold climate.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

oh man me and 20w50 people. we wont go there. but a pump doesnt like it. i think most get it from people that race full time and have a worn engiine that is starting to come apart. but yeah oil is a neat thing. i have a little low oil pressure in my rs but still running the 10w30. when it breaks ill replace it.

wildjyoung

iTrader: (6)

Just out of curiosity, what is your oil pressure? I have had people tell me everything from 6PSI to 40 PSI is proper at hot idle. As long as I have 6 at hot idle and 50 PSI at WOT I am happy.

3rd gen Will

iTrader: (8)

As stated above, 10psi per 1000 rpms is the general rule of thumb.

I think my 86k 350TPI car has 25 psi at hot idle. My 86k LS1 has like 45 psi at hot idle.

For those that run the AC delco 454, you can run the 1218, it's the same diameter and thread, just has a higher capacity.

stroker_SS

WOW, you have been terribly misinformed. BTW its amsoil(one word), pennzoil in the 70's (along with quaker state) was subpar oil, today it passes ALL of the same tests (including astm-d seq IIIG sludging).

Castrol may purchase ther BASE stocks from Exxon-Mobil but they certainly don't contain the same additive packages.

Please stop spreading the misinformation you have been bestowed upon.

I'm not trying to sound condescending, and please don't take it that way, I just don't like these decade old wives' tales being spread anymore.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

hey thanks for that number 1218.
wix--51060
k&n--3002
purolater-l34631
fram--ph5
baldwin--b1428
mobile one--m1-302

mos68x

Someone in the first page mentioned an oil pressure switch socket...what the hell is that? I know what an OPS is, but the socket???

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

All you K&N people know that these filters have some of the worst micron filtration out there? Go compare it to the RoyalPurple filter, 30-1218 for example and see for yourself.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

I wouldn't say *terribly* misinformed. AMSoil is better than RP and Mobile1. Redline is even better than AMSoil for that matter though. It's not even fair to compare them though when Redline is an optimized polyol ester, AMSoil is a PAO like RP, and Mobil1 is just a synblend, it's not even a true full syn last I checked 5 years ago.

The rest of his comment was way misinformed though lol.