MSD APS Products & KRC PS Kit - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

I H8 WWD · 08-31-2009, 04:54 PM

My plans are for a full MSD ignition. Ingition box, starter, alternator, wires, plugs, distributor. Also to upgrade my steering components to KRC's PS Kit

Anyway next to buy is my APS Starter and Alternator.

MSD-5111 160A Alternator
MSD-5158 Bracket Kit
MSD-5095 Starter

First I am wondering with the alternator and install kit can I remove the huge accessory bracket we have. If not what can I do to remove the alternator and power steering bracket. I plan to go with the KRC 29020015 Kit which will allow me to remove the huge accessory bracket. So how would I get my alternator installed without this huge bracket. If I can do this I will go ahead and buy everything and finally finish the front of my engine bay and ignition (Minus ign. box for now). Thanks guys.

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1A Dan · 09-01-2009, 03:06 PM

The install kit they have for the alternator would be for allowing that alt to work in a stock location; their alternators are somewhat universal and have no mounting ears/points at all (think aftermarket radio if you've ever installed one). You could always look for an install kit for something older, maybe like the 87 sbc that had the mixed v-belt & serpentine setup?

I H8 WWD · 09-01-2009, 08:33 PM

If I have to I can always cut the bracket but I'd like a bracket mount for the alternator and for serpentine. Since the MSD Alternator has universal mounting positions any will work. Problem is nobody has one. I have checked Billet Specialties, March Performance, Zoops and others. Everyone sells setups for standard mount but on the passenger side or high, mid or outward/inward mounts for the driver side (side I need to be standard mount).

I don't need the alternator ASAP but I'd like to finish up the rest of the simple bolt ons for my car over this winter, as far as my engine bay goes and that's on the list.

Thanks.

//<86TA>\\ · 09-01-2009, 08:41 PM

im using krc's iron pump setup. It works great, no complaints. Only thing i had to do was change the flow valve to increase the flow to get the steering feel back to where it was.

TB2 · 09-01-2009, 10:29 PM

I'm running the complete KRC PS pump and pulley setup similar to the pic below. Love it! I also am running my Hydroboost off of the pump with no issues.

I H8 WWD · 09-02-2009, 11:56 AM

I am talking with March about a custom setup for those with any position mount alternators without the stock bracket. Hope all works out great, nothing is official so still let me knwo what I can do for the alternator.

Quote:

Originally Posted by //<86TA>\\

im using krc's iron pump setup. It works great, no complaints. Only thing i had to do was change the flow valve to increase the flow to get the steering feel back to where it was.

Please explain more. What is the part # for your pump? What size? 7.2CC I assume. What GPM Flow Nozzle came with your exact pump? Also what GPM flow nozzle did you replace the original with? They have 9 total for both 7.2/13.5cc pump sizes ranging from 1.05-3.17 for the 7.2cc and 1.5-3.7 for the 13.5cc.

Lastly, by feel how would you say your steering feels right now with the new flow nozzle as compared to stock? Easier/Harder, Rough/Smooth

Thanks for the information.

EDIT: I see they also have specific nozzles for "More feel, less assist" and "More assist, less feel", which is what I think I want to be in the middle if not more assist than feel, for drifting at least. I know this is something that will have to be tuned to my own feel, but either way still let me know the feel compared to stock.

I H8 WWD · 09-03-2009, 12:12 PM

Just got done talking with March Performance and they can not do anything for me that would keep my alternator in the stock location without the big bracket. My alternator can be installed onto the stock bracket but I'd like to eliminate it from the car. Maybe something custom or keep the bracket until I get the SC which comes with a new bracket for the PS and alternator, but will have to see if the KRC pump and pulley work with it as well. We will see.

//<86TA>\\ · 09-05-2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I H8 WWD

I am talking with March about a custom setup for those with any position mount alternators without the stock bracket. Hope all works out great, nothing is official so still let me knwo what I can do for the alternator.

Please explain more. What is the part # for your pump? What size? 7.2CC I assume. What GPM Flow Nozzle came with your exact pump? Also what GPM flow nozzle did you replace the original with? They have 9 total for both 7.2/13.5cc pump sizes ranging from 1.05-3.17 for the 7.2cc and 1.5-3.7 for the 13.5cc.

Lastly, by feel how would you say your steering feels right now with the new flow nozzle as compared to stock? Easier/Harder, Rough/Smooth

Thanks for the information.

EDIT: I see they also have specific nozzles for "More feel, less assist" and "More assist, less feel", which is what I think I want to be in the middle if not more assist than feel, for drifting at least. I know this is something that will have to be tuned to my own feel, but either way still let me know the feel compared to stock.

the pump is #krc 50010 000 from southwest speed. Thats just the pump, they have the kits too. its 13.5 cc. the stock valve was 2.5 gph. Im currently using the 3.45 valve and its feels good. I also have the 3.7 valve, but i dont think i will be needing it.

With the 3.45, the steering feels just like the stock steering on my 92. with the 2.5, it was a bit heavy, not bad while moving, but at low speed in a parking lot, turning the wheels hard in any direction would take a lot of effort.

I H8 WWD · 09-06-2009, 11:19 AM

Well thats not good in compared to stock that you need one of the largest flow valves they have. I am going with the aluminum pump (weight reasons

) 7.2cc and it only goes up to 3.17GPM with the ID:E valve, which would mean this may end up being a bad decision as far as upgrading my pump for drifting reasons. Or are the valves interchangeable as the part numbers are the same, but what I think I am not realizing is that the flow rating will be different for each sized pump so with the 7.2cc (now thinking 9.6cc) the ID:E 3.17GPM is the same valve used to flow 3.70GPM on the 13.5cc pump. Am I right when I say that? Please explain further. I will most likely buy the kit of valves to do some tuning but would like a nice starting point rather than changing out 5+ valves.

I figure I want something easier than stock. With which what you say would need to start with the ID

valve and leaving me with only 1 valve of adjustment further from stock.

JERRYWHO · 09-06-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by //<86TA>\\

im using krc's iron pump setup. It works great, no complaints. Only thing i had to do was change the flow valve to increase the flow to get the steering feel back to where it was.

I am ready to order KRC pump also, One question do you know what size crank and pump pulleys you have.

Jerry

//<86TA>\\ · 09-06-2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JERRYWHO

I am ready to order KRC pump also, One question do you know what size crank and pump pulleys you have.

Jerry

crank is 5.5, i believe the pump is 5.5 or 6", i dont know offhand. Its pretty much a 1 to 1 ratio.

//<86TA>\\ · 09-06-2009, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I H8 WWD

Well thats not good in compared to stock that you need one of the largest flow valves they have. I am going with the aluminum pump (weight reasons

) 7.2cc and it only goes up to 3.17GPM with the ID:E valve, which would mean this may end up being a bad decision as far as upgrading my pump for drifting reasons. Or are the valves interchangeable as the part numbers are the same, but what I think I am not realizing is that the flow rating will be different for each sized pump so with the 7.2cc (now thinking 9.6cc) the ID:E 3.17GPM is the same valve used to flow 3.70GPM on the 13.5cc pump. Am I right when I say that? Please explain further. I will most likely buy the kit of valves to do some tuning but would like a nice starting point rather than changing out 5+ valves.

I figure I want something easier than stock. With which what you say would need to start with the ID

valve and leaving me with only 1 valve of adjustment further from stock.

from the catalog that i have, the aluminum pumps have different valves from the iron pumps, and they are not interchangeable. I dont know what the flow relationship is between the smaller cc pump and the larger. You could always use a smaller pulley on the pump to overdrive it, making more flow with the same sized valve. Not sure if that would cause any issues with cavitation or foaming or anything like that

I H8 WWD · 09-06-2009, 11:44 PM

My stock crank pulley is 7-3/4" and my stock power steering pump is 6-1/2".

I will be going to a March under drive crank pulley (I think its about 5-1/2" or 6" don't quote me).

I am going to give them a call tomorrow and see what I can find out about each setup.

KRC has a 6" 6rib pulley, this would give me just a tad more flow that I think I may need. Alright enough for now, calling tomorrow.

JERRYWHO · 09-07-2009, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by //<86TA>\\

You could always use a smaller pulley on the pump to overdrive it, making more flow with the same sized valve. Not sure if that would cause any issues with cavitation or foaming or anything like that

With a 5 1/2 crank pulley and a 6 inch pump pulley you are 9% under driven. The KRC pump has a 9,000 rpm max speed and with your under driven pulley setup you have a max engine rpm of 9,810. If your redline is under 9,500 rpm you are not setup to use the pump to its full capability.

Jerry

JERRYWHO · 09-07-2009, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I H8 WWD

My stock crank pulley is 7-3/4" and my stock power steering pump is 6-1/2".

I will be going to a March under drive crank pulley (I think its about 5-1/2" or 6").

I am going to give them a call tomorrow and see what I can find out about each setup.

KRC has a 6" 6 rib pulley, this would give me just a tad more flow that I think I may need. Alright enough for now, calling tomorrow.

If you are going to keep a 7 3/4 crank pulley then use a 6 inch pump pulley this will give you a max engine rpm of 7,000 to spin the pump at at 9,000 max.

If you are going to use a 5 1/2 crank pulley then use a 4.2 inch pump pulley this will give you a max engine rpm of 6,850 to spin the pump at at 9,000 max.

KRC has a 4.2 inch 6 rib pulley.

Jerry

1989GTATransAm · 09-07-2009, 12:54 PM

What are the advantages of using the KRC's PS Kit compared to our factory unit?

I H8 WWD · 09-07-2009, 01:49 PM

EDIT (Read before other comments which were posted first): Update from KRC Power. I asked them about the 9,000-RPM speed of the pumps. He told me at about 1,500-RPM the pump will be at maximum flow. The 9,000-RPM is the limit of the pump speed. Exceeding this limit will burn out the pump or can cause issues for extended periods of use at this RPM. So you DO NOT need to run the pump at 9,000-RPM (pump speed not motor speed) to achieve its maximum flow.

First, realize I am going for reliability...reliability. No my car wont ever touch 9k-RPM, but it will see around 6500 after everything is done and tuned and will see it a lot.

Second, I want this kit because its lighter (I love weight reduction), and it removes the bottom part of the acc. bracket, meaning more weight removed.

Third my stock pump is whining. Time to replace, PO never changed fluid and fluid was low. Added more fluid whining went away but I'm sure it was driven for a nice long time before I got to it to fill it back up, who knows its condition and how long it will last after a 3 year sit.

Fourth, I want this kit because I am drifting this camaro and want a pump that I can tune and know will be reliable for a long time. This pump will allow me to change flow rates how I please, meaning better dial-ins when I get out there.

I tried KRC's Formula.

7.75" / 6.5" = 1.19 x 6,500-RPM = 7,735-RPM Pump Speed (Stock Crank Pulley, Stock PS Pulley, Stock Pump, after my tune)
7.75" / 6.0" = 1.29 x 6,500-RPM = 8,385-RPM Pump Speed (Stock Crank Pulley, KRC 6.0" PS Pulley, KRC Pump, after my tune)
7.75" / 4.2" = 1.84 x 6,500-RPM = 11,960-RPM Pump Speed (Stock Crank Pulley, KRC 4.2" PS Pulley, KRC Pump, after my tune)

5.875" / 6.5" = 0.90 x 6,500-RPM = 5,850-RPM Pump Speed (March UD Crank Pulley, KRC 4.2" PS Pulley, KRC Pump, after my tune)
5.875" / 6.0" = 0.98 x 6,500-RPM = 6,370-RPM Pump Speed (March UD Crank Pulley, KRC 4.2" PS Pulley, KRC Pump, after my tune)
5.875" / 4.2" = 1.40 x 6,500-RPM = 9,100-RPM Pump Speed (march UD Crank Pulley, KRC 4.2" PS Pulley, KRC Pump, after my tune)

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These are crank pulley size setups I already had done so I will keep them here.

If it were 6"

6.0" / 6.5" = 0.92 x 6,500-RPM = 5,980-RPM Pump Speed (6.0" Crank Pulley, Stock PS Pulley, Stock Pump, after my tune)
6.0" / 6.0" = 1.00 x 6,500-RPM = 6,500-RPM Pump Speed (6.0" Crank Pulley, KRC 6.0" PS Pulley, KRC Pump, after my tune)
6.0" / 4.2" = 1.42 x 6,500-RPM = 9,230-RPM Pump Speed (6.0" Crank Pulley, KRC 4.2" PS Pulley, KRC Pump, after my tune)

It it were 5.5" (The size 86TA says it may be for his setup)

5.5" / 6.5" = 0.84 x 6,500-RPM = 5460-RPM Pump Speed (5.5" Crank Pulley, Stock PS Pulley, Stock Pump, after my tune)
5.5" / 6.0" = 0.91 x 6,500-RPM = 5915-RPM Pump Speed (5.5" Crank Pulley, KRC 6.0" PS Pulley, KRC Pump, after my tune)
5.5" / 4.2" = 1.30 x 6,500-RPM = 8450-RPM Pump Speed (5.5" Crank Pulley, KRC 4.2" PS Pulley, KRC Pump, after my tune)
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P.S. Jerry, any info on how to get my MSD APS alternator to bolt in the stock location but without using the accessory bracket.

P.P.S. Damn labor day. Can't call anyone.