THETANK

I recently had an engine built and it was a nightmare. if you would like you can read the post below this post to learn about 1/2 of the stuff I went through. I got a written spec sheet from the builder and need to know if the below parts are the same.

He tells me that Engine Tech uses these other companies and just puts there name on the outter packaging and the pats themselves are stamped with the name brand name ( ie scat hastings etc).

WHAT WAS WRITTEN AND AGREED UPON:

AERC/SCAT 3.480" Cast Steel Knife Edged Profiled Crankshaft
SPEED PRO HYPEREUTECTIC PISTONS 10:1
HASTINGS PLAZMA MOLY RINGS
CLEVITE MAIN BEARINGS AND ROD BEARINGS

WHAT I GOT:

PBM 7502 ECONOMY CRANKSHAFT
ENGINETECH PISTONS P1534030
ENGINTECH RINGS M40058030
ENGINETECH BEARINGS

THETANK

Here's my story I will try to make it as brief as possible but there is a lot to it so I'm not making any promises. I got an engine built and installed on my 91 Camaro. The engine was supposed to be done in 3 weeks and 8 weeks later it was finally completed. During that course of time I made several phone calls probably about 15 not one of them returned the only time I would talk to the builder is if he happened to answer the phone. 8 weeks later it was fully finished and at this point I was happy it would be installed in my vehicle. He assured me that it would be in the car within 3 days and ready to pickup. 2 weeks later I finally called him and he told me it was ready.

I got there to pick it up and he slammed the gas cap down on the counter and he said “This is going to cost you a lot of money." He then told me that the gas cap wasn't a "vented" gas cap and was causing problems with fuel delivery. I then saw my car for the 1st time with the new engine in it and noticed the TV cable was knotted and the brackets I had provided him to correct the GEO were not used.

I then told him that the brackets needed to be used and he told me it doesn't matter as long as the TV is depressed fully at WOT. I argued the point with him put then he began to either BS me or talk over my head ( see my other post for more detail https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...edelbrock.html) . I eventually take the car and it floods out 5 miles from his shop.

Here is where the story goes down hill. I bring it back and he gets annoyed with me and tells me that this was the biggest pain in the butt engine swap he has ever done (TBI to Carb). He told me that he would fix it and I told him I did not want to spend anymore money on the car and explained to him that he should make it right. I also told him that I wanted a New TV cable installed b/c he ruined the one that he knotted.

I told him again I do not want to pay anything else and that he needed to make it right because the cable did not come in knotted and the problem with the flooding was obviously a problem when it was at the shop it didn't just start all of a sudden 5 miles down the road. He told me the car would be done in 2 days about 10 days later and several phone calls. I call and he tells me it's ready and that the problem was my P.O.S. AFPR that I brought in Mallory ( return style) and tries to charge me $400 more and he still didn't fix the TV cable.

He rigged the fuel pump to the oil pressure sending unit and then to the fuse panel. we had a 1.5 hour discussion and ultimately he did not get paid the $400 extra. I flat out told him I paid for a professional job to be done and that is what I expected to be done.

BTW: MY TBI fuel pump also had to be replaced he replaced it with a TPI fuel pump and charged me for removal/ reinstall and cleaning of the fuel tank. I get home and I am cleaning the car I noticed that the rear carpet is not right. I know that you can access the fuel tank by cutting a hole in the sheet metal and going in through the top; low and behold I pull the carpet back and now have an access plate in my hatch.

Here's my question he was pretty nasty with me at the end and got personal with me attacking my knowledge of cars and telling me that I know , " just enough to be dangerous." We had some issues about the engine build sheet/contract that were ambiguous when I confronted him with these issues he told me well you should have had me write it more specific "it's right hear and black and white." Which I take responsibility for and only have myself to blame he left himself a lot of wiggle room in the contract and what he said didn't always coincide with what he wrote.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

i would get a lawyer and look into suing him.

You paid good money for work to be done and he obviously didnt do it all. And i will tell you this, if i had a fuel pump changed in my car and the POS mechanic cut my trunk instead of doing it RIGHT, he would be paying to have a professional auto body weld in a replacement floor. That is completely unacceptable. BTW, the TPI pump puts out a lot more pressure than a TBI one does, if he didnt reconnect the lines properly, they coudl burst. I would pull the access cover off and see what he did. If its worm gear clamps and crap rubber hose, i would start really yelling.

As for the parts, i dont even know the guy and i dont trust him, i wouldnt be surprised if the parts used are not what you asked for. I dont care what he says about generic branding. I would really doubt you have a scat crank.

Engine tech looks legitimate, they do however seem to manufacture their own parts.

PBM again is a legitimate company, they have their own line of cranks. I could not tell you if they make their own, or if they are made by the same people as scat. Either way, its not a scat brand crank, so its not what you asked for.

Either way, the guy does not seem very professional, you can contact the BBB (Better Business Bureau) and file a complainte as well.

Rich2279

iTrader: (7)

Maybe you can contact the Better Business Bureau and see what they say/suggest? The lawyer is a good idea too.
http://www.bbb.org/

turbosbox

i would not want to be dealing with that mess.
many cranks are made in china now. some with better materials and specs, others not. and some, scat i believe are at least machined in the usa, so they can quality control that aspect.

a tpi pump has to put out higher pressures for the fuel injectors. my guess is its not regulated down to the 5psi or so a carb uses? i didnt read your long post, so pls excuse that. too high a pressure on a carb will overwhelm the needle on the float, and just flood, from what i read sounds like that is part of the problem.
you can take it back and forth if you enjoy that type of thing, getting it hacked on one thing at a time. or go to small claims court, file your own stuff, and go a different path. that's what i'd do. if he is a hack mechanic, how do you figure you can 'insist he become professional and honest' to do your work? ain't gonna happen.

THETANK

Well at your suggestion I pulled the acess plate and below is a pic. We already had a talk about the wrong pump and everything I say I get you don't know what your talking about. I reference a tech manual or the GM shop manual and I get those guys don't work on cars they write tech books from behind a desk I've been working on cars for over 25 years. How can you argue with nobody knows anything except for him. I gurantee you that he is going to tell me that he did not cut the hole it was already there ( which it wasn't but I have no proof just that I know I have had the carpet up b4 for a leak and it wasn't there), but he did print out on the invoice " Remove and replace Fuel tank".

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

wow, I would deff. be pissed off if someone cut my rear like that to install a pump.
I would deff. tell him you want it fixes or your gonna take it to the next level to do so.
Nothing in writing sayin you gave him the Ok to do that.

As for the fuel pump issue. as said above carbs are 5psi, TPI is 43psi. thats alot of pressure to regulate down. WeTBI pump on a carb swap before with a return style maoolory fpr on a buddies car and it was just fine.

As for the parts. Id be checking into that

Enginetech is basic (stockish) th cheapest jobber parts people can buy.
Im talking $8 each pistons
$100 cranks / rods, etc.. thats what a buddy will use when someone wants a bare min. rebuild.

example 5.7 rebuild
http://www.apmengineparts.com/genera...ngine-kit.html
$400 and thats thru a company not direct like he gets bulk stuff.

Hope this helps you some. You deff. paid for some decent parts and got a basic rebuilt kit at the best.

THETANK

I guess at this point I am attempting to get a list of prices on things for example the price of a scat or PBM Knife edged crankshaft vs the price of a PBM econo crankshaft, or the price of speed pro hypereutectic pistons vs the price of engine tech pistons etc... If I can get the prices at least I can have a ball park of how much the difference is.

I am not sure what I can do about the parts except get the difference a court will not legally give the full amount of the part back unless you return said part. Good thing is that I paid it on a credit card which has not come due yet so I guess disputing the charge may be a good idea. I am just unsure how much to dispute because I do have an engine and it is installed , just not to spec so I would imagine I can't dispute the entire charge.

AC

iTrader: (3)

2 simple ways to look at it if you want to. 1.) DID you get what you asked for and paid for OR 2.) DID you get something you're willing to pay more for than you should have. The second question obviously needs homework done to determine. I've takend MANY negotitaing courses, sales courses, etc. I think of your situation as Aim high and get high, aim low and get low (ie screwed possibly). I hope whatever you decide works out well for you.

Iroc-Z28Man

Wow, reading this horror story and i agree with some above, sue that *** hole , becuase he did not do what he said, extented deadlines are to be expected, but he could have atleast up dated you on the situation. That guy is obviously not certified in anyway, he should not be allowed to touch cars. BTW TBI to Carb is not difficult at all, becuase your not longer using any of the computerized stuff, and the fuel pump should have been taken out and replaced with either an mechincal pump or a electric one made for carbs. I guess it true what they say if you find a good machine shop or auto garage you should stick with it.

Rich2279

iTrader: (7)

The more I think about it, the more ticked I get. He had no right to cut up your floor.

turbosbox

you have no proof he cut it, then show us the proof? look at the fresh cut line on the edges of the sheetmetal...no rust, but where you live, look at the rusted lines. there's the proof, also, if he dropped the tank how did he tighten the splices with all the screws lined up right there on top? or why? and let me take a big guess, the nuts holding the tank, are rusty, ever take a nut or bolt off without knocking some of the rust off it? another picture for the courts. its not hard to do. simply tell the judge what happened, and what you think a fair settlement is. then he'll hear the other guy lie, and you win.

THETANK

I also have one other thing as far as proof for the tank. I was having a problem with my exhaust where the s/s tips on the end were heavy and it was pulling through the frame. I had it tack welded to the frame to keep the bolt from pulling through, weld is still in place and is obvioulsy not new. If I am corrrect, he should had to lower the exhaust (muffler included) if he dropped the tank. No way he could have lowered it with out cuttting the weld.

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

WTF..??..
This is what I get from the info-
Written agreement--(contract.??)
Parts used were NOT agreed on,nor were
you contacted for discussing substituting ANY
written & agreed parts.
Options for fuel pump were not discussed,the floor was cut
without your knowledge or approval.
I don't know alot about legal stuff,but it seems there was a
written agreement (contract) & his end broke it.I believe you have
a legit reason for legal action IF yourself &/or he has a copy of or
the original paper,or a witness.??. One of my friends owns an auto
repair shop & he said he would tell the customer of the options b4
getting his hands dirty when ever possible.That includes 3rd gen gas tanks & related innerds!
He said cutting is easier//faster but leaves that decision to customers.

cavpilot

iTrader: (1)

Call the Better Business Bureau if you want, but it's a complete waste of time.
Read this (or one of the 375 other complaints about them).

If you've got everything in writing, file a fraud complaint with the 5-0, and sue him in small claims court.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

One things for sure... I would NOT give him the opportunity to repair the work himself. He needs to pay to have it all re-done at a reputable shop. Or an insurance company approved shop perhaps. Because its just going to keep getting worse if he does more to it. Ide atleast be looking for some monetary compensation for the shoddy work and "damage" to your car.

I bet he saw the weld on the exhaust and said F it and cut the hole for the tank. I have no problem with that as a method of pump replacement...but I have a HUGE problem with that not being an agreed upon course of action. He also said he cleaned the tank. Not sure how you do that with the tank still in the car. He didnt even seal the access cover from the looks of it. That could possibly let fumes into the car. Just plain stupid.

It sounds like he basically thinks you know NOTHING and he can just pull the wool over your eyes. Im not sure how he thinks he can get away with it... This is the exact reason the only time my car goes into a shop is for inspection. Too many dirty rat idiot mechanics out there.

Good luck man. Hopefully you get compensated in one way or another.

J.

THETANK

He actually verbally stated to me about how much of a PITA it is to change a pump on this car, he said I am going to have to lower the exhaust and remove the whole tank , he actually pointed out the weld (while it was on the lift, which I knew was there) and said this is going to have to be cut and went in to great detail telling me how time consuming of a job it was going to be.

He did place a cover on it I just removed it for pic purposes also took pics of the brand new shiny screws used.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

changing the tank by removing the tank is not a hard job, especially in a shop with air tools and lift. They guy has no clue and/or is quite lazy

SpeedMetalT/A

This guy is obviously a horrible mechanic and its actual embarassing for him to claim that he's been working on cars for over 25 years and do such a shitty job. I would look into suing him if you think its worth the time and the additional money to get an attorney. It's a shame that you have people like him who hack up peoples cars while claiming to be a professional.

92purplehaze

iTrader: (8)

looks like he owes you a new engine and a car. turbosbox took the words out my mouth as I looked at your pics (fresh cut and screws pointed up). I would take him for everything you can get

86camaro383

iTrader: (3)

if you dont mind, how much did you pay for this hack job? I just dont get it, converting to FI or TBI to carb is not hard at all, and any f-body isnt really hard to work on at all (cept a 5th gen, I havent worked on one of them yet)

travis401

iTrader: (1)

simple legal terms: if you had a written agreement about what parts you wanted in the engine and he didnt put them in there, its a breach of contract and he owes you all your money back, not just some. take his *** to small claims court, its an easy win and you get your money back plus you can fight for extra money to repair what he f**ked up like the hole in your trunk.the beauty of small claims court is you just gotta sound better to the judge than the other guy, which from the sounds of it, isnt gonna be that difficult at all. id go the extra mile and look up his shop on search engines that let you leave reviews and spread the word this guy is a hack. more people will pay attention to a bad review on google than what the BBB has to say.

Awesome-X

Wow. Well honestly one of the first things I'd try to do is get him to admit to as many of his mistakes as you can, and I'd also be carrying a nice tape recorder concealed somewhere. That wouldn't hurt you in small claims, I'd say. I can't believe a mechanic of any caliber would do such a horrible job to a customer's car. I'd get him for all I could and teach him what half assing your business really gets you.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

Definitely have an open-and-shut case for small claims court there. Check your state's litigation laws. In PA the losing party in a civil suit(even small claims court) is required to pay court costs and attorney's fees for BOTH parties. Even if your state doesn't require it, you can always add it in to your claim. You can also try to get reimbursed for costs associated with the trial and while trying to resolve the situation such as gas for trips to and from the shop/GM shop manuals/etc.

Take the ******* for all you can. I agree 100% with ghettocruiser, *******s like him are why my cars see a mechanic ONLY for the required annual state inspection.

89_RS

No mechanic should ever do anything without the owners approval. If some ****er did that to me, I'd lose it.

To the OP:

You have a Constitutional 4th Amendment right to sue anyone for damages in excess of $20. Most states cap small claims court at $5k or less. Get legal counsle, but don't hire a lawyer unless you absolutely have to. If you sue this guy on your own, the judge will not demand the same burden of proof from you as he/she would from a lawyer representing you. If you decide to sue for an amount greater than what small claims allows, then you will need a lawyer. And unless you're willing to win the case only on principle (lawyers are $300-$500 an hour and up), consider your other options of legal recourse.

File a complaint with your States Attorney General Office, file a police report, start the ball rolling on an investigation/lawsuit, maintain a complete record of the paper trail and receipts between you and this guy. Take large numbers of photos of the work performed. Include before shots of the car as well if you have them. Get an "expert" witness that will define standard shop practices for the court.

PURSUE THAT HELLHOUND TO HIS GRAVE!!!

***DISCLAIMER***

***I am not a lawyer, nor is what I provided above to be considered legal counsel. Always consult with a lawyer prior to taking legal action against any party or entity.***

89IROCZ28

iTrader: (14)

Sorry to hear about all the problems you've had. As previously stated, you had a contract specifying specific parts for an agreed upon price. The parts specified were not installed w/o prior authorization for the change. Bottom line, it's a breech of contract on the shop's part.

I would definitely not let him work on your car again. If he did this bad of a job while being paid, I can't imagine what he will do while being forced to correct everything he did wrong. I also would not trust the work done on the engine. You may be entitled not only to get all your money back, but an additional amount to rebuild the engine correctly (or enough to get a crate engine).

Hacking you car to replace a fuel pump is something a 'shade tree' mechanic does ... not something you pay an experienced professional to do. File a claim to have it restored to the condition it was in before he did the hack job on it and to install the pump required for the job. If you didn't specify a TPI pump - which I imagine you already knew you definitely didn't want or need for a carb conversion - all money applied to the job should be refunded.

Just for your reference, I recently had a fuel pump replaced by a mechanic that we worked w/ for years. Because I have plans for some engine upgrades, I requested a TPI pump be installed. I truly believe he simply forgot and installed a stock TBI replacement pump at a cost of $375. That covered the cost of the pump and to do the job right by lowering the axle and exhaust to remove the tank that was at least 3/4 full (the only reason I didn't do the job myself). To make things right, he refunded the entire amount of the job. No arguing, no threats, and no court. He did it to make things right due to his error. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like this so called 'mechanic' has the integrity to do the same and you're only recourse is going to be a court of law.

Oh yeah ... it may not be a good idea to trash the guy or shop until everything is resolved. In fact, it may be part of the settlement. Plus, you open yourself up to being sued by the guy for liable or slander. Don't give him the opportunity or satisfaction to screw you over again.

Best of luck in getting your car done right and getting your money back.

THETANK

Well 86camaro, the engine build plus install plus fuel pump was almost 8K 1K over the intial estimate.

I am trying to get catalogs from enginetech to show what they offer is different then what heput in. I am having a difficult time contacting them and getting a catalog.

89IROC, I am purposely not using his name or the company name for the reason you stated.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

You got ripped off, those parts are bottom line el cheapo junk parts and he even hacked up your car. I would demand he pay for all the damages, have a new engine built and have the cut up rear repaired by a reputable shop and demand a complete new fuel sending unit without cut fuel lines. Then I would kill that SOB.

You paid for cleaning the tank. How did he clean it without taking it off? I assume you paid for labor hours of him taking the tank out/removing half the rear suspension and what not?

Why would you need a TPI pump? A TBI pump will deliver ample flow@ 4psi. (The pump doesn't create pressure, it creates flow and since a TPI pump flows more it can cram more fuel into a dead head and as such have a higher dead head rating and deliver flow at a regulated 45psi or so what a PFI runs at, the TBI is rated for adequate flow @ around 10-14PSI of a TBI system, still more than enough for a 4psi carb...at 4psi it will deliver a lot more fuel than at 14) This guy is making up excuses to sell you parts (and install uber cheap crap) and add some more labor hours (and take a big short cut and cut up your car)

turbosbox

ok, having won at small claims court before, i'll share some advice on winning. disclaimer i'm not a lawyer blah blah...

file a claim at the courthouse, pay the 75$ or whatever fee.

before the court date, gather up and take with you all the documents:
bills and estimates etc.

write a record of conversations and a brief synopsis of what was agreed to when and when things happened, payments delivery changes etc.

take pictures and print them

make an extra copy or two of everything for the defendent and you to look at as you explain them to the judge.

get a good reputable estimate to make things right, from a solid shop. like the other guy said to include new lines etc.
two estimates is even better.

make a "good faith" effort to resolve this. ok, we all know he is a hacker, and I wouldn't let him work on my car again, so I'm not coming up with a great resolution there, but the judge will want to see where you have done this, BEFORE you came before him in court! so this means in writing, copy of the letter, copy of the delivery confirmation by usps...saying what needs to be repaired, and the estimates from the shop you got, and maybe e.g. that you will take it to the cheaper shop and he can pay it in full.
probably he will say bring it back instead, in which case you have a bit of a problem, as i wouldnt do that myself. but good chance he will just ignore the request or say 'no'. which is better for you in court.

come up with a resolution to the case to present to the judge. either a 'fair damages' or repair bills. e.g. if you say it will cost 8k$ to do it all again with repairs from xyz shop, but u are willing to settle for 4k$ , the judge may will accept that proposal. or u will take it and have it all redone for 8k$, maybe he will buy off on it, but you still have an engine from the guy, and that makes it a bit harder to be clear cut. the judge will decide what's fair, but you must go in and not
have a few clear words and details to present, like a 1min presentation of all the facts and resolution you propose. then if you follow the effort to do this, i think you'll be happy with the outcome.

many people come into court and don't even know what they want, and a 200% refund with pain and suffering isn't reasonable, so they don't win

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

While I'm no lawyer either(standard disclaimer on non-professional advice), I've won in small claims court before as well. What turbosbox posted is all great advice. The key to winning is to be more believable to the judge than to the other guy. Having all the appropriate paperwork along with the paper trail is essential to this. Documentation is king, anything you have in writing and/or pics is invaluable to you. It is evidence that cannot be argued as easily as "well, he said , then I said " Sending the "mechanic" several estimates by other, reputable shops to correct his hackjob is a great idea. Just make sure you send it via certified mail with signature confirmation. This will show the judge that 1) the cost to repair the problems(ie the amount of $$ you should be awarded) and 2) that the "mechanic" received the documents and saw them. You should also specify to the carrier that only he can sign the delivery confirmation form.

Make sure you have every scrap of paper related to this issue, even if its something scribbled on the back of a napkin.

Treat the judge with respect, especially if the other guy starts getting pissed off or acting like an *******. The judge is supposed to be impartial, but he is still a human being.

I think you should have no problems with winning this, but as I said, I'm no lawyer/judge.

EDIT: Assume the judge knows NOTHING about cars/engines. Take documentation showing WHY you wanted the parts in the contract and WHY they are better than the ones he put in. As for the gas tank, a GM shop manual would be great to take as it will show the proper way to change the fuel pump in your car. An ASE certified mechanic, preferably from a local GM dealership would be a great witness and not someone the "mechanic" can brush off as not knowing what they are talking about.

89_RS

transam85dudeman

i heard hiding a tape recorder for proof while talking to someone doesn't count. the person has to be informed he/she is being recorded for it to count. Driving the car until the tranny failed would get you a new tranny in court or whatever. I want to point out when people take advantage of court and law it sickens me. the court system is constructed to make things fair. Fair for individuals like you tank. Ive experienced the same with mechanics. i had my car diagnosed in 06' by a "performance shop" They charged me 500 dollars, settled for 85. They didnt pinpoint anything. Never went back, they even broke my radiator, i had to replace it in their parking lot. And because they didnt find the problem, i took my car to another shop where they messed with my TV cable and said the transmission is going out. I told them just adjust it, the mechanic took a cruise all around town on the highway getting it fast with a bad adjusted cable. Still he said it was the transmission, and a miss. im like why did you drive it like 10 miles with a miss and bad adjusted cable. HE was like i dont know, the boss mechanic did the same thing just drive around. i was pissed. I fixed the miss and the readjusted the tv that they originally purposely screwed up, I never go to mechanics anymore, just thirdgen.org. Ive learned a lot in the last four years about working on my ride. NO more mechanics. Im going to rebuild a 350 block and swap that in sometime soon, not in no record time, just a hobby., good luck with the case hearing. you defiantly need a ASE certified dude with you and practice keeping a straight face. Lawyers are great but are also like mechanics, gotta shop around for lawyers. PS it would be crazy if you removed a head and found the wrong pistons in there.

xX89RSXx

iTrader: (1)

You should contact the ACLU also!

89_RS

That's correct, although I'm not completely sure on what legal grounds it is wrong. IIRC, it has to do with entrapment or obtaining a confession without the knowledge of the confessor or something along those lines. Its enough of a gray area for me to not want to do it.

Toehead

good luck man.


Subscribing

AC

iTrader: (3)

LOL, none of his civil liberties were violated. This is 200% a case for small claims court and your states BBB

THETANK

Well guys I am gathering up some estimates from local body shops/ garages. I got some printouts from Summit/ Jeg's Etc showing that the parts listed and installed were different. I also have copies of information from shop manuals etc... I am having trouble getting anything from enginetech, they only want to deal with shops and rebuilders it seems like. I would like to get a hard copy of an enginetech catalog but they keep referring me to the downloadable version which is of little help. I also found out he used Cast Pistons ( Silovite) instead of Hypereutectic ( SpeedPro).

Taping someone can be a very touchy subject laws vary from state to state. Some states are one party consent, some are two party consent etc... If you tape someone and don't notify them in MD ( for instance) you can be criminally charged for a violation of the wiretap act. Some states require notification, some consent and others like VA only requires that 1 person know that the conversation is being recorded. I am very familiar with the criminal side of courts/law as I work with them on a daily basis, but civil proceedings are a whole different ball game. Right now I have a case that in my opinion well exceeds a preponderance of the evidence standard used in civil courts.

F-Body Demon

iTrader: (1)

Nail that guy man! $8,000!!! If your not screaming your way through the local police station door you must not be working very hard for your money. Simple matter is, he did something you did not ask him to do and even at that HE DID IT WRONG! Play hard ball or your going to get the $8,000 coated baseball bat shoved up your...um...tailpipe.

transam85dudeman

wrong pistons? com' on man, thats a open shut case. you got ONE shot at this, i think if amount in damages exceeds $5,000 in M.D.--->it probably cant be solved in small claims court (http://www.peoples-law.org/misc/smal.../smclaims.html) this is awesome case, id love to see the mechanic try to talk his way out of this one, or try to get smart with a Judge (considering the tone this one has towards you). I believe in a fair trial for all. SO the guy installed WRONG pistons you wanted, wrong crankshaft, performed a fuel pump swap using NON-Standard proper procedures (access door for dangerous invitation to blacking out while driving due to fumes)HAZARD. Performing jobs that weren't consented on, and charged excess amount for procedures NOT POSSIBLE realistically given the circumstance (fuel tank clean), A quote for a job that ended up a THOUSAND DOLLARS MORE(in Cali that would not FLY) The agreed time was like what 50%longer than quoted, sabotaging ones ($1700 projected rebuild cost)transmission (hacked up ruined 55 dollar Throttle valve cable), total incompetence of swapping engines (despite the mechanic being 25years deep), blainted lies.
What about assembly lube? doubt the guy used any, considering his bashing record (Equals) low engine life, frequent visit to the mechanic. I want to say, 4 thousand seems fair. there i said it. anybody?

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Make it 5

THETANK

I'm in MD shops out of state small claims in his state is $15K

89_RS

Call it a flat $10k then. Its 8$k alone for the engine, and I know my body shop would be at least $1500 to fix that hole.

F-Body Demon

iTrader: (1)

+1 for 10k, refund your money and pay to fix the hack job.

turbosbox

i have a couple comments on this link. it's good info, but it makes it sound a slightly too pessimistic even with a "court win" outcome.
it's true, a loser in court, is likely a loser who won't pay.
I did a couple things after the court win. one is to file a negative against their credit rating. only cost a buck and a page filled out at the courthouse with the lawsuit paperwork and nonpayment information.
the other is, filling out a page that sends the sheriff out to his place, and gather up anything of much value to be auctioned off.
this one DID get the loser to payup. he had ripped off many other people at the same time, but he decided he would rather pay me, than lose some of his stuff.
i just got ripped off buying a rusted, scored lobes and journals camshaft on craigslist, so i'll go down this road again next week myself. Here is what I got scammed on. The lower cam is a "used" zz4 takeout I put next to the "brand new" junk cam so a judge can easily see what we are talking about.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

With it being across state borders, you can file in either state. Technically, you could file in federal court as well since it crosses state lines. I wouldn't bother with federal court, just throwing that out there.

As for the tape recording, generally it will violate either the state's wiretap laws, the constitutional amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures(#4 I think it is), or both.

I think $10k is too low. Not only did he do it completely wrong but now you have to pay someone else to redo it. You should get your money back, plus the money to pay someone else to do both the engine and the bodywork right. Just because this idiot charged you X number of dollars to do the job doesn't mean a good mechanic will charge you that same amount. Most likely they will charge you more. You said you've got estimates from body shops, make sure you get some from other mechanics for the engine assembly/swap work as well as the fuel pump and TV cable work.

Turbosbox has a good point that winning in court doesnt automatically mean you will get a check from this guy. If he doesn't pay up, you could also look into bringing his insurance company into the mix. There are several obvious headaches with that, but he has insurance for a reason.

State laws also vary on this point too I'm sure, but in PA depending on the type of business you can go after his personal assets as well if he does not pay.

MADMAXGTA

iTrader: (1)

After reading this Thread,I will never go to an engine shop,I will buy a crate engine and a hoist let third gen senoirs walk me through the process. what a f**k story.

89_RS

Sorry to break it to you, but the courts really don't care about that kind of stuff. Sure you can sue for the cost of the motor, body damage and the cost of having what you wanted done in the first place, but no judge will give you that amount of money. The courts are about what is legally fair. The guy should get $10k because he spent $8k on the motor and incurred $2k of damage to the car.

The court isn't going to award you enough money to pay you back for one screw up and give you enough money to get into another potential mess. They only award money based on damages and breaches incurred. Plus, if he got paid $8k for the losses already incurred, $2k for the body damage plus $8k to have done what he wanted to in the first place he would net $8k on the whole lawsuit. No court period will allow you to make money like that.

Not to be negative, but if you win rarely do you see the money. If he does get money, it'll be for the engine and maybe some for the body work. $9k is about where you can expect the court to rule, but aim for $10k in case you get lucky.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

like these guys are saying, you wont be able to get more than your 8k back, but that should be enough to have the car fixed and have a competent shop build and install a new engine. Or get a crate engine.

I really cant believe that shops that operate like this are still in business. what azzholes

transam85dudeman

What would you fellas say the % is for bad shops like this? 10%? 20%? its depressing that some mechanical engineering is sometimes too mechanical for "mechanics". im sorry dude. Party on.

THETANK

UPDATE:
Tried to work it out today he tld me the following lies:

1)He used Cast pistons b/c Hyper's could not be used b/c the rings sit too high and they would not fit.

2)Can't use M55HV with stock oil pan ( called melling they said you can)

3) Dura - bond bearings CH8 are not standard bearings but are preformance bearings 9 according to Durabond's catalog they are std CHP8 are high preformance

4) Said he was unaware that the that that fuel tank was not dropped and one of his workers must have done it. He went on to say that this is the standard way to do things when it's a modified exhaust ( my exhaust is a single 3 inch into a flowmaster with s/s tips, that's a pretty crazy setup... LOL).

5) He couldn't use Clevite bearings MS909p and CB663P because I used a different camshaft xr276 ( WHAT?)

That is what he said. I argued my case and he told me those parts would not work in my application. I asked him how he was willing to rectify the situation and he said I weld the sheet metal in to cover your fuel pump. I counter offered with Give me all my money back and I will give you your engine back and we will part ways. He said , See you in court. He freely admitted that he did not use the pistons that he had on his intial write up, the cam bearings, main and rod bearings and the oil pump. he went on to say I already cut you a deal on the engine you can't expect me to use $179 pistons you don't need them anyway.