Aftermarket Product ReviewProvide questions and answers about aftermarket parts for the Third Generation F-Body.
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hey all,
my car has recently been all messed up LOL, but i have an update from before it started to run like crap.
I just came across this thread again and don't have the slips in front of me, but I got it to go low 12.40's ....cant remember mph tho. This was on the 3rd tune and come to find out, my plugs have been blasted to all hell. I pulled the plugs and all the tips are destroyed. Car still ran great and didnt miss a beat, but hopefully this means I can get a little quicker next time out. Also, i now have a 2600 converter and will be running the same 26" Hoosiers.
So, for all you XR 276 boys.....my XR 269 ain't doing so bad on this 100,000 mile motor.........
It looks like I have the tune dialed now with the #4 but now i pretty much have a huge intake leak at the manifold and i think i tanked my injectors also..........so, ill be down for a while. I'm gonna try and scan some pics of my set-up in a few....lets see if they work :/
hey guys....12.40's all motor. Car ran like *** on nitrous the last time out and i ran a 11.53 That was with all the backfiring, etc etc. and a big time crappy 1.8 60'!! I ususally cut low 1.6's but it was all off that night. It was disastorous. I think i DEFINETLY had a 10 sec pass in it that night but it never actually happened. And now with the new trans and converter Im looking for no slower than 10.80's. This is on a 150 RWHP shot. Hope itll do it!!!!
Right now Im doing the intake manifold gaskets and will also upgrade to new Accel 24# injectors since im in there. Multecs suck and frankly, they scare me :/
12.40 without the juice, thats awesome! Cant wait to build the motor in my GTA... Vortec 350 TPI with SDPC base and AS&M runners. I've gone for the XR264-12. Woohoo!
Good work man! Thats a very respectable time! Amazing that you say it is on 100,000 mile motor, is it the stock bottom end? Talk about a budget low 12s ride! Hopefully there will be more time to shave off the ET once the rest of the combo is put together and dialed in.
Im very happy with it for what it is. Yes, it is absolutely the stock bottom end from the day it left the factory. Just clicked off 100, 000 miles. And total i have into the heads/cam/manifold, etc etc is approx $1700 including all the shipping and gaskets, bolts, etc, etc. I did the porting and installs myself, so no labor there LOL
This car is suppoosed to be a budget/ true street car and it will continue to be built that way....
Guys, are you just trying to keep this thread going or what? Why is there so much crap about "do you think my engine will do this, run that" which is completely off topic or has nothing to do with the original poster? There is button that says "post new topic" if that's what you wanna do. I'm sure Mike will be back to post when he gets through with stuff that's surely much more important in life than surfing the net and discussing cars. And hopefully he'll start another post that'll be even longer than this.
__________________ 2002 SOM ws6 M6, the 91 never was ressurected after the fire...
Old cars:
91 Z w/383 , all forged bottom end, miniram, TPIS ZZ-X cam, Ported AFR 210's, Pro-built trans, Vig 3200 stall, Hooker LT's, drag susp., 17x9 ROH Snypers, and quite a bit more. 375 rwhp 375 rwtq.
89 Iroc, SuperRam, 219 cam, AFR 190's, sold to the old man, now has 406, runs 11's.
The people that come in and talk new combos and theory usually have one post, dont get responded to, and leave. Otherwise there is a small group of regulars who pay close tabs to this post and help eachother out whenever possible. Mike Crews started a great post and it kinda evolved into an all inclusive Vortec head Comp Extreme cam following, thats kinda obvious by now. I am sure that Mike Crews is as interested in our combos as we are with his.
Your a cool member and all but this is not your thread and if Mike Crews was upset with the side conversation I am most positive he would have made mention by now. I will continue to visit and post here as long as it is in line with what is already in place. You are the first person to speak out against what is shared here and I assume you are a minority. Only you can control the content that you read here, its your choice.
LOL, you guys are actually pretty funny. You guys are just jealous about the heads!! You Vortec guys suck for making so much power with stock heads! Shame on you. J/K. LOL. Actually I thought this thread was starting to get a little boring, so I decided to spice things up a little. So everybody, don't take what I said so seriously. This is actually the best thread on these forums and I thought it was getting dull, that's all. So no hard feelings, right? Everyone's gotta act like a smartass once in a while.
__________________ 2002 SOM ws6 M6, the 91 never was ressurected after the fire...
Old cars:
91 Z w/383 , all forged bottom end, miniram, TPIS ZZ-X cam, Ported AFR 210's, Pro-built trans, Vig 3200 stall, Hooker LT's, drag susp., 17x9 ROH Snypers, and quite a bit more. 375 rwhp 375 rwtq.
89 Iroc, SuperRam, 219 cam, AFR 190's, sold to the old man, now has 406, runs 11's.
LOL, I dont think that anyone here is jelous at all about the AFR heads! There are about 5 combos here that have real potential to break into the 11s while running heads that they have very little money invested in. Most of the Vortec guys have 600$-800$ in their heads while I have 900$ in my E-tecs. I was actually gonna run the AFRs but changed my mind as their whole add on pricing scheme pissed me off. 1250 base price add decking, tapping, blah blah blah, 1500$ to my door. Heck, I took the money I saved and treated my trans to a Vigilante!
Anyway its all water under the bridge! No hard feelings here. Any Superram owner, is a friend of mine!
You guys with Vortecs and similar heads are running awesome it appears, but you do know where to look if you wanna see what heads are on guys cars that fly, don't ya? (eg. Traxion, Mike Davis, Ski_dwn_it, Lethalracer, etc) AFR's all the way baby!! Some of these guys are running 11's all day with stock 190's and Jesse will be in the 10's within a few weeks with stock 190's. LOL Let me see cars with Vortecs do that! I'm just doing a little fun trashtalking by the way, I'm in no way trying to put anyone down. My car might actually be running good right now if I'd gone with vortecs so I could put the money I saved into fixing my problems. LOL. :lala:
Im kinda missing the whole point of your arguement as you make the effort to compare budget combos to some of the most expensive buildups on the board. Its kinda hard to draw a real comparison between 350s running mostly stock parts or 800$ cast 383 setups to forged crate motors and forged 406 setups running 1200$ worth of solid roller valvetrain parts.
But hey, arent you the guy with the unbalanced 383 that blows smoke out of the valve covers?
I was never trying to argue, you're completely missing my point. I'm joking, you know what is joke is right? I'm actually being quite modest and you're taking it the wrong way, so chill out pal.
Ominous87, that's cool, I thought you may have thought I was talking crap about vortecs, when actually I love em. So yeah, I'll stop talking bs and get back to the topic. So, I wonder if those NGK plugs would work well in AFR heads like they do in Vortecs? Right now I'm running Rapid fire AC Delcos. I'll definitely look into the NGK plugs if you guys like them.
I'm getting my 8 point rollbar welded in this coming week, I'll be back at the track in a short.
Also having them weld up a new section of pipe. I've been running through a single 2.5" bend at the end of the SLP Y-pipe this whole time. having the cutout behind this bend really doesn't help all that much
be curious to see what type of power it has over 6G without that plug up it's ***... It's gone 12.06 @ 112.5 through that lil pipe.
with a full 3" bend on it, and big kid tires. ... i should be breakin crap in no time !
Mike, thanks for the information. I'll talk to Dean about burning me a chip like yours but I'll get it for 26 # injectors. I'm putting those in next week to try and help the top end power.
__________________ 1989 Pontiac GTA Nighthawk, 389 CID, 10.3:1, Eagle Stroker Crank, Eagle 6 inch rods, KB Dish Pistons, CC XR269-HR-12, Crane 1.5 Golds, Fully Internally Balanced, Ported Exhaust and 1.6 Exhaust Valve Vortec Heads, Headman Ceramic Coated Shorties port matched to Vortec Heads, Ported SLP's, SDPC Base, Ported Plenum, 52mm TB, 30 lb. Injectors, Streetdampr, Crane Hi-6S, Underdrive Crank Pulley, Be-Cool Radiator and dual fans, 450 HP 500 TQ. Vigilante 2800 stall Converter and TCI Steetfighter Trans. Spohn Torque arm w/safety loop, LCA's, Panhard rod and LCA relocation brackets, Aluminum driveshaft, Flowmaster 3" catback, Flowmaster muffler, High Flow 3" Cat, Custom Y-Pipe.
Hey guys I have got my combo built and have a few questions. Here are the specs
-GM performance parts block 4-bolt roller 1 pc rear seal
-Crower forged crank and pistons (350)
-Speed Pro 9.8-1 forged pistons
-Pro topline vortec heads
-1.52 Magnum roller tip rocker arms
-XR269 cam with matching springs ( heads were machined and shimmed to fit springs)
-SLP 13/4 Headers
-Hooker cat back
-heavily ported SLP runners and Plenum
-Scoggin Dickey intake
My first question is this engine is loud even with the full cat-back. is that normal
I got it started on the stock chip, but it is not pretty. I am getting ready to tune it (I burn my own chips) but I want to make sure everything is mechanically correct.
My next question is about the cam. Do you guys with the XR269 cam or something similar have alot of valvetrain noise. I have set the lash three time with the engine running and I am pretty confident it is close. Ther really is no clicking it just sounds as if you have your ear next to the vavle cover when your standing next to the car. I am getting ready to step the oil up from 5W-30 to 10W-40 to see if that helps. Any other suggestions would be welcomed
I am running Magnum 1.52 rockers. They are the self aligning roller tip comp cam rockers. For injectors I am running the Ford Racing 26lb injectors. I have tall, billet center bolt valve covers with matching breathers. I thought about running straight oil, but I have had mixed opinions so I opted for the light weight oil with the thinking it would help break in. If you do not mind me asking what is your reasoning for straight 30 over other oils. Thanks alot for your reply I appreciate it. I cannot wait to get off work and go mess with my car.
Everything including the EGR system works on my car! So, yes the PCV is functional. It will not pass a visual though due to the long tube headers with no air tubes, no smog pump present, and all the A.I.R stuff is gone too! The EGR and EGR solenoid is there only to maintain factory vacuum routing. However, I've disabled the EGR, A.I.R, Smog, etc... in the PROM.
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
I run straight 30 in my motor (as I'm still breaking her in). The reason behind this, is that 1st you want to run a fossil oil until the rings have seated. 2nd, straight 30 helps the rings seat faster (according to my machine shop). Also, when you have a fresh motor, you dont want the oil to be thin at startup (5w 30). 5 is WAY to thin on start up till warm up, to break in a new motor. Running straight 30 will keep you protected and after break in, and your fueling is right in your tune, then you can switch to Mobile-one synthetic 10w 30 without missing a beat.
You do NOT want to run 10w 40 in a new motor, only because you don't want to get your new bearings used to 40 weight until she gets old and needs it!
Hope that helps!
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
I did not want to make a mountain out of a mole hill, but I actually kept my PCV system working. I used a billet PCV valve on one side that does not have the PCV valve in it. It hooks to the throttle body just like the stock air tube setup. Then on the other valve cover I have an oval breather with a PCV vavle in it and it hooks to the stock PCV vavle location on the manifold.
By having a breather on the same side as the PCV valve no positive vaccum actually gets to crankcase. The vaccum that the PCV valve allows into the valve cover will pull more air in through the breather then it will pull fumes from the crankcase.
The stock PCV system works as follows:
Drivers side: PCV valve conected to baseplate sits in valve cover and puts a vaccum on the drivers side of the motor.
Passenger side: Straight hose is connected to valve cover and then to TB. Direction of flow is from TB to valve cover.
This is set up like this so fresh filtered air can be sucked into the passenger side and then pulled by vaccum out the drivers side. There are 2 resons why the factory just didnt put a breather on the passengers side. 1. it would need to be replaced when dirty, GM assumes that most people change there air filters so why bother with a breather if they have a known clean air source. 2. if in event the PCV valve jams closed whatever is pushed from the motor will still enter the combustion process through the passengers side hose and not vent into the atmosphere.
Hope this helps, right now you are basically running a dual breather setup as the vaccum effect is being minimized.
Well I fixed the valve noise with 10w-30, but that really did not matter much. As I was idling through my addition at about 1500RPM, scanning the ecm to setup the fuel curve, I heard a loud clank! and all the oil and coolant left the motor. One of my brand new rods broke in half and went through the pan and block. I have all the logged data to that point and there was no warning what so ever. One minute it was running the next minute it was not. I have never seen a forged rod break in half. I think there may have been something wrong with the rod, but try to prove that in court. The short block is trashed. I am hoping my cam and heads are ok. Oh well what do you do.
That's why I break in new motors with straight 30.
Here's a possible scenario of what happened.
Too much fuel washed out the rings. Since the rings never seated properly, gas slipped by the rings. The gas then thinned out the already thin oil causing the crank to grind away bearings, ultimately spinning a main bearing and putting the rod in a bind, hence shooting the rod through the block / oil pan.
Not saying that the oil is what caused the problem. You probably did have a defective rod. But, SAE 30 can take more fuel mixed in it before complete break down / thinning, than a lighter (5w or 10w 30) can.
Just a thought and best of luck on your new short block! If the valves in the heads look ok and cam is not scar'ed up, you should be able to reuse them with no problems. Have the crank turned if it's salvageable and look into a stronger block. I would also look into a different brand of rods.
Let us know what the rest of the motor looks like when you disassemble it.
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
Well I changed the oil before I drove it. It did not have any noticeable amount of fuel in it. I had driven the car less than fifteen minutes when this had happened. The were no noticeable external noises. and my data logging shows that the timing was only retarted twice, three degrees each time and that was when the idle got below 600 RPMs. Checking my logged data then engine reach a max RPM of 3164. The last point was taken at 1711 rpm. Oil pressure min was 37psi at 600 RPM and max was 67 psi at 3000. I talked to SDPC they said they would get back to me on Monday. I am hoping maybe I can scrounge enough up for a ZZ4 shortblock. It has a warranty and I just do not think I could take another dissapointment like this. Everything was brand new from the ARP bolts to the mildon oil scraper baffle kit. Not to mention that was a brand new 700 dollar GM 4 bolt main 1 piece rear main seal roller block.
A ZZ-4 short block minus the cam would be a decent choice. Warranties are nice! Just make sure they install cam bearings if you can get the short block with no cam installed.
How do the rest of the parts look? (heads ie. valves, cam, rockers, push-rods) ??
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
Well I just realized there was a misprint in my original parts post. I did not lis my rods and I stated I had two different kinds of pistons. Anyway I purchased the rotating assembly from SDPC. They special ordered the Crower Crank. All of it is stock 350 dimensions. The rotating assembly consisted of a Crower Crank Eagle Rods and Speed Pro pistons. All the GM blocks I have ever bought have already had the cam bearings pressed in and come epoxy coated. The bare block that was sacrificed to the rod came with the cam bearings pressed in and freeze plugs.
No I did not have two different kinds of pistons. I accidently stated I did. As far as I know Crower does not make a piston. I only had the new forged speed pro's. By the way this is the sixth chevy small block I have built from the ground up and it was the most expensive. Unfortuneatly it is the only one not running. Pretty ironic.
What a kickass thread. I haven't read into this for a long while and it's till on page one!
You guys are making me look bad with your 12 sec runs!
damn.. I'm impressed with the times you guys are putting down! Good job!! :hail:
Time for a cam swap and head work I think!! :rockon:
Next on the agenda for my car is a 2600 stall converter and a probuilt street/strip trans. Hopefully with some drag radials I will be down in the low 13's up here.
Well the blown motor was my fault. Warning to all: the XR269 cam and pro-topline vortec heads make for a zero clearance motor. I used the speed pro L2256F pistons. When I pulled the heads off today you could see were the intake valves had hit the pistons enough to rub away the soot. The rod broke because the head of one valve broke off and got wedged sideways. It stopped the piston dead in its tracks. The piston and head were so strong they did not even dent. Instead the cylinder broke in two. When the bent rod tried to come back down it hit the block. Since the forged crank was not about to give, the rod snapped in TENSION. End of motor.
I had checked for valve to piston clearance with modeling clay and it looked tight, but I did not see any contact. All I can figure is when everything was warm I ran out of space. Expensive lesson. Just thought you would all like to know.
that is definetly an expensive lesson, but man, i know from experience, they are hard lessons to take. Ya know, i was pissed i made a $400 mistake w/ my runners and i know you are about your $XXX mistake but remember, someone out there ****ed up WORSE and MORE than me or you, so just take it as it comes and build up another animal. SOmetimes, perspective is good therapy...other times it sux :/
i'm also building a vortec headed 383 with semi siamesed slp runners. i bought the pro topline heads bare and need some input on what kind of work i should get done to the heads. i've read before that the exhaust ports need some work? should i have a 1.6 exhaust valves installed and keep 1.94 on intake, or go to 2.02 there too? another thing i bought them with 64 cc chambers, can the vortecs be milled to say 60 or 62 cc to bump the compression up a little?
plus how do you think the xe274 cam kit from jegs sounds? think that cam is too big, not enough or good? anyone know how the springs are that come with the kit, like what max lift it supports?
Mike Crews - where are you man.../ Its july now, and we want answers! - j/k how are things going?
Mike(1bad91Z) - hows that animal of yours running? I'm finally putting mine back together. Just got my 200cc Pro aluminiums, and my Headman lt's and x-pipe...
__________________ Jp Shawgo
1986 camaro - 10.5 outlaw/Outlaw 632
1989 lead sled still awating its transformation
- If you can't afford to do it right the first time, can you afford to do it again?
Originally posted by slp_firehawk i'm also building a vortec headed 383 with semi siamesed slp runners. i bought the pro topline heads bare and need some input on what kind of work i should get done to the heads. i've read before that the exhaust ports need some work? should i have a 1.6 exhaust valves installed and keep 1.94 on intake, or go to 2.02 there too? another thing i bought them with 64 cc chambers, can the vortecs be milled to say 60 or 62 cc to bump the compression up a little?
Jason
Going larger on the valves without extensive knowledgeable porting will actually create more turbulence and hinder your flow. In a phrase, if you are planning larger valves, you must port the heads accordingly. Find last month's Car Craft article on porting Vortecs. That article refers to factory stockers. Some of these modifications might be already cast into your Topline's. The Toplines also have a thicker deck than the factory stock Vortecs and will take an angle mill down to 62cc. Supposedly the factory stockers are too thin for this much milling.
Mine are milled to 62cc's and they were once stock vortec chevy truck heads.
Mike Crews - did ya fall off the face of the earth or what! ??? Where ya at? We'll, I hope you're doing well. Let us all know what you been upto when you get the chance!
Shagwell - how's your progress going? I just got a set of 3.73 gears. I will be having them installed on Aug. 9th. The tuning is getting a little closer. I think a couple more PROM revisions will do the trick. But, the car is running great! I want to make sure everything is as perfect as I can get it before I dyno it. So, I'm making progress as money becomes available.
L8r,
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
Look at it like this, the Fast-burn heads are 62cc. Just make you have enough piston to valve clearance to be safe (check block deck height, etc...) before you have them milled.
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
